Deshaun Watson Off the Field Thread v2

I don't think the NFL will appeal for a variety of reasons (the NFL fearing their "dirty laundry" getting out is not one of them), but I must say it feels like there's a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread.

I have a suspicion that most people would not be stumping this hard for Watson and the NFLPA going after the owners had a team not named the Browns been the one that traded for Watson

If the NFL wants to change their punishment process, they can review that during the next CBA. Not days after an unpopular ruling that makes them look exactly how Judge Robinson explained which is them caving to public pressure.

Will they make us wait till 9am tomorrow,’is the question.

I don't get those that say Watson coming back will result in a ratings boon. The NFL is going to crush ratings with or without him, in my opinion. And the risk of losing viewers (even shown within this Browns thread) is, at the very least, equal to the number of eye balls that would choose to tune in to root against the Browns that wouldn't have otherwise.

There may be more tangible benefit in overall media coverage on ESPN/Fox Sports, etc., but I don't believe the NFL sees much benefit in an increase in coverage on this particular case, as it brings up a bunch of things like labor agreements, past missteps, and of course the actions of Watson himself.

While I'm cautiously optimistic, I still feel like a full year, without the "indefinite tag" is a preferred final outcome form the NFL. It's an unprecedented suspension for these acts, it gets Watson out of the news cycle for the entirety of the season, it punishes the Browns, while also not entirely punishing the Browns since the contract year won't count, and from a general media lash back stand point, I think most people would accept this as being a fair and just punishment to avoid any sort of viewing/following protests that can only pick up steam with new transgressions from those within the league (from players to owners).

Hopefully nothing happens by 9am tomorrow, but my guard is still up.

Jscc said:

There is plenty. This is a labor union contract dispute and he is not an at-will employee. If it is appealed to a Federal Court, I expect them to treat it like a labor union contract dispute (like Robinson did), not a moral crusade (what people like Florio and Eisen are doing because they believe the law failed and now the NFL must rectify it). She already laid out the language and limitations of the CBA in her decision that an appealing Judge will be referencing.

The bottom line is that they have to argue how they drew a different conclusion from the same CBA facts than a former federal Judge with 20+ years of experience (including labor relations) and why they are tossing out almost all precedent with regard to what is expected in disciplining a labor union member.

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That all SOUNDS nice, but per the CBA they are allowed to increase a suspension on appeal. They have ultimate power to decide the length of the suspension. The judge based her decision on prior suspension precedent but the NFL is allowed to change that precedent. The CBA doesn’t lay out that “because Ben and Elliot got 6 games years ago…that is now the punishment for this conduct”.

The NFLPA would have to prove why the collectively bargained appeals process violates federal law. I’m not seeing it.

No matter what Judge Robinson qualifications are, she or whoever is in that job does NOT have the final word on suspension length in the CBA. The NFL does.

He clearly violated the CBA. That’s accepted by all parties involved at this point. The NFL can just cite that in their view his conduct rises to the level that requires a new and more severe level of punishment.

Los216 said:

If the NFL wants to change their punishment process, they can review that during the next CBA. Not days after an unpopular ruling that makes them look exactly how Judge Robinson explained which is them caving to public pressure.

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Oh look, someone else who is trying to argue from a position of authority when they didn't do the bare minimum and read Judge Robinson's 16 page* summary!

*=it's actually 15 pages, with the sixteenth being a signature. Oh, and it's in large font, and it's double-spaced, and each page has a massive footer. Seriously, you should be able to read it in just a few minutes.



The punishment isn't defined in the CBA. Robinson specifically called out previous punishments as the reason for her 6-game suspension. If the NFL wants future suspensions to increase, then they need to set a new precedent for future suspensions. They could do that now. They could do that in a future case. But, unless they want to wait for a new CBA, setting a new precedent is the path that Judge Robinson specifically outlined for the league.

CBBI said:

I don't think the NFL will appeal for a variety of reasons (the NFL fearing their "dirty laundry" getting out is not one of them), but I must say it feels like there's a lot of wishful thinking going on in this thread.

I have a suspicion that most people would not be stumping this hard for Watson and the NFLPA going after the owners had a team not named the Browns been the one that traded for Watson

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Literally the exact same thing could be said for the people stumping for Goodell and the NFL

Erbium said:

I don't get those that say Watson coming back will result in a ratings boon. The NFL is going to crush ratings with or without him, in my opinion. And the risk of losing viewers (even shown within this Browns thread) is, at the very least, equal to the number of eye balls that would choose to tune in to root against the Browns that wouldn't have otherwise.

There may be more tangible benefit in overall media coverage on ESPN/Fox Sports, etc., but I don't believe the NFL sees much benefit in an increase in coverage on this particular case, as it brings up a bunch of things like labor agreements, past missteps, and of course the actions of Watson himself.

While I'm cautiously optimistic, I still feel like a full year, without the "indefinite tag" is a preferred final outcome form the NFL. It's an unprecedented suspension for these acts, it gets Watson out of the news cycle for the entirety of the season, it punishes the Browns, while also not entirely punishing the Browns since the contract year won't count, and from a general media lash back stand point, I think most people would accept this as being a fair and just punishment to avoid any sort of viewing/following protests that can only pick up steam with new transgressions from those within the league (from players to owners).

Hopefully nothing happens by 9am tomorrow, but my guard is still up.

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Hate watching is still watching

I think the NFL is acutely aware that they truly are bullet proof when it comes to a "nothing will stop people from watching!" perspective.

Los216 said:

But the NFL didn't need an independent party to determine that Deshaun Watson violated the Personal Conduct Policy. So since they chose to wait for the opinion of that independent party instead of taking any action at all, they need to sit with the results.

The NFL made this bed. Lay.

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I mean, that’s a cool opinion that you have a right to express.

But it doesn’t change the fact that the NFL despite enlisting an independent party to essentially conduct arbitration proceedings, in my view, has the power to appeal and increase the suspension per the CBA. And I think they’d win in court. I actually was given an idea by my friend that I agree with—-I now think that it would get settled and Watsons team will end up taking the NFLs 12 game/fine offer before letting it go to a decision in federal court in which they would likely allow the NFL to change the suspension which I think they will at first change to an indefinite suspension to put pressure on the NFLPA to settle when they file suit.


I don’t think they appeal still, but I just don’t buy that Watson could win a lawsuit.

Out of the Rafters at the Q said:

Oh look, someone else who is trying to argue from a position of authority when they didn't do the bare minimum and read Judge Robinson's 16 page* summary!

*=it's actually 15 pages, with the sixteenth being a signature. Oh, and it's in large font, and it's double-spaced, and each page has a massive footer. Seriously, you should be able to read it in just a few minutes.



The punishment isn't defined in the CBA. Robinson specifically called out previous punishments as the reason for her 6-game suspension. If the NFL wants future suspensions to increase, then they need to set a new precedent for future suspensions. They could do that now. They could do that in a future case. But, unless they want to wait for a new CBA, setting a new precedent is the path that Judge Robinson specifically outlined for the league.

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If you read all 16 pages of that you're a certified nerd.

Triplethreat said:

If you read all 16 pages of that you're a certified nerd.

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If you don't read it, you should have a touch of perspective and realize that challenging those who did read it over specifics is probably a fool's errand.

Go out in the hallway until you finish your reading, then you can join the rest of your peers who did their homework.

Seriously, it's incredibly short. It's like 3000 words total. People have written posts on RCF that are longer than it.

CBBI said:

I have a suspicion that most people would not be stumping this hard for Watson and the NFLPA going after the owners had a team not named the Browns been the one that traded for Watson

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If a team not named The Browns had traded for Deshaun Watson would there have been this many people in the media going as far as to say that the team who signed him should rip up the contract? I don't think so.

We know first hand from watching the Cavs how the media treats sports teams and fans in Cleveland. I do not for a second believe that if Deshaun Watson would've chosen ATL, CAR, or NO that there would've been this much media backlash.

I literally was the one who posted the Schefter tweet saying that Deshaun Watson was being traded to CLE. Not even seconds before he announced the trade there were multiple stories and angles already in motion about a homecoming in ATL for the former ball boy or going back to CAR where he played college football or playing for one of the leagues favorite fanbases and popular teams in NO.

The media angles being presented for ATL, CAR, and NO were a complete 180 from those from CLE. With CLE is was always about us having the best roster and that's it. No talk about our passionate fan base. No talk about us having a very smart GM and HC. Not one feel good angle coming from CLE AT ALL.

But for ATL, CAR, and NO, before Deshaun Watson even made his decision people were already talking about how good of a story it would be for the former ball boy and Clemson grad. Kyle Pitts on Twitter. Cam Jordan on Twitter. Alvin Kamara (who has an active domestic violence case the NFL is reviewing btw) campaigning for Deshaun.

There was no noise coming from CLE at all. Literally the only noise coming from CLE was people laughing at us because bum ass Baker Mayfield was in his feelings about us meeting with Deshaun so he requested a trade. That was the story out of CLE. People trying to dunk on us for Baker freakin Mayfield (lolololololololol) requesting a trade.

So to your original point I disagree. People were already going hard for ATL, CAR, and NO before CLE was even "eliminated"

Now that we got him everyone got salty the same way people did when LeBron chose to come back to CLE or the same way the media complains about having to be in CLE in June (stupid af complaint btw). The same way people try to dunk on our fans and teams all the time.

Los216 said:

If the NFL wants to change their punishment process, they can review that during the next CBA. Not days after an unpopular ruling that makes them look exactly how Judge Robinson explained which is them caving to public pressure.

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What do you mean dude? Their CURRENT punishment process IN THE CBA, includes the right to APPEAL, and lays out who gets to hear the appeal and make the decision.

More like, if the NFLPA wants to change the NFLs ultimate appeal power, they can try to negotiate that during the next CBA.


The CBA gives ultimate power to the league here.

InBoobieWeTrust said:

I mean, that’s a cool opinion that you have a right to express.

But it doesn’t change the fact that the NFL despite enlisting an independent party to essentially conduct arbitration proceedings, in my view, has the power to appeal and increase the suspension per the CBA. And I think they’d win in court. I actually was given an idea by my friend that I agree with—-I now think that it would get settled and Watsons team will end up taking the NFLs 12 game/fine offer before letting it go to a decision in federal court in which they would likely allow the NFL to change the suspension which I think they will at first change to an indefinite suspension to put pressure on the NFLPA to settle when they file suit.


I don’t think they appeal still, but I just don’t buy that Watson could win a lawsuit.

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I don't think the goal of the NFLPA would be to "win" a lawsuit anyway.

IMO it would be to create a circus that the NFL doesn't want to deal with.

Los216 said:

If a team not named The Browns had traded for Deshaun Watson would there have been this many people in the media going as far as to say that the team who signed him should rip up the contract? I don't think so.

We know first hand from watching the Cavs how the media treats sports teams and fans in Cleveland. I do not for a second believe that if Deshaun Watson would've chosen ATL, CAR, or NO that there would've been this much media backlash.

I literally was the one who posted the Schefter tweet saying that Deshaun Watson was being traded to CLE. Not even seconds before he announced the trade there were multiple stories and angles already in motion about a homecoming in ATL for the former ball boy or going back to CAR where he played college football or playing for one of the leagues favorite fanbases and popular teams in NO.

The media angles being presented for ATL, CAR, and NO were a complete 180 from those from CLE. With CLE is was always about us having the best roster and that's it. No talk about our passionate fan base. No talk about us having a very smart GM and HC. Not one feel good angle coming from CLE AT ALL.

But for ATL, CAR, and NO, before Deshaun Watson even made his decision people were already talking about how good of a story it would be for the former ball boy and Clemson grad. Kyle Pitts on Twitter. Cam Jordan on Twitter. Alvin Kamara (who has an active domestic violence case the NFL is reviewing btw) campaigning for Deshaun.

There was no noise coming from CLE at all. Literally the only noise coming from CLE was people laughing at us because bum ass Baker Mayfield was in his feelings about us meeting with Deshaun so he requested a trade. That was the story out of CLE. People trying to dunk on us for Baker freakin Mayfield (lolololololololol) requesting a trade.

So to your original point I disagree. People were already going hard for ATL, CAR, and NO before CLE was even "eliminated"

Now that we got him everyone got salty the same way people did when LeBron chose to come back to CLE or the same way the media complains about having to be in CLE in June (stupid af complaint btw). The same way people try to dunk on our fans and teams all the time.

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If you actually believe this nonsense...

Whew baby.