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Deshaun Watson Off the Field Thread v3: 11 games, $5M

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How many games does the NFL want to inflict

  • 6 + Fine

    Votes: 2 3.8%

  • 8

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • 10

    Votes: 4 7.5%

  • 12

    Votes: 9 17.0%

  • Full Season

    Votes: 37 69.8%
  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .
The increased suspension is bullshit based on the precedent set by the NFL. And the things they’ve overlooked. And the things they’ve willfully not cared about.

Watson absolutely deserves more games, though. He’s a predator and if I thought the NFL cared at all about curtailing abhorrent behavior, I’d be 100% in favor.

But they don’t, and, therefore, I’m not.
 
I hope the NFLPA attorneys drag the owners through the mud if this goes to trial. Air out every example of the double standard, and failure to hold owners to a "higher level". They need to make it publicly painful and embarrassing, and they need to make it clear to Goodell what their legal and PR strategy is going to be.
 
CBBI said:
A lot of interesting stuff here.

sports.yahoo.com

NFL was warned about Deshaun Watson's suspension length in June, giving league month to consider taking control of outcome

It was a revelation that arbitrator Sue L. Robinson delivered, sources said. It instantly established an eyebrow-raising blow to the NFL’s effort to impose a landmark suspension of Watson.
sports.yahoo.com sports.yahoo.com
Click to expand...
All of which brings back into focus what the league is asking for as part of its appeal. According to sources familiar with the appeal, the NFL is seeking one of two outcomes:

  • Watson would be suspended indefinitely for one year. During that year, he would undergo an element of treatment related to the behavior established in his case. At the end of the year, Watson would apply for reinstatement and if he meets the league’s criteria, he will come back into the fold for the Browns. In the case of this scenario, Watson wouldn’t be subject to a fine as part of his punishment, however, his contract in Cleveland would toll, essentially starting his five-year extension in 2023 rather than 2022.

    That latter point is considerable, as it would effectively push Watson’s next contract out one year, erasing a season of earning power from his career.
  • Watson would be subject to a significant fine if his suspension is ultimately less than one year. Similar to the first outcome, he would also have to undergo treatment during his suspension. Think of this scenario as mapping with the league’s last settlement volley in July, which would have suspended Watson 12 games and fined him something near the neighborhood of his 2021 salary of $10.5 million. It would be a considerable financial cost for Watson, but also one that ends with him returning to the NFL without having to apply for reinstatement or tolling his current contract for one year.




I had not considered the financial impact of the full season making him lose a year of income his prime. In that case, the $10 million fine is a much more likely scenario for him to accept.
 
CBBI said:
Kevin Clark pretty much nailed it.

www.theringer.com

The NFL Had No Choice But to Appeal the Deshaun Watson Suspension

On Wednesday, the NFL appealed the six-game suspension that Judge Sue L. Robinson gave the Browns QB. But while the league will likely get the longer punishment it wants, nobody will win in this case.
www.theringer.com www.theringer.com
Click to expand...

If the indefinite suspension is pushed through, there’s only one way this will end: The NFL Players Association will sue, and this will end up in federal court. The NFL will eventually get its way, however long that takes. The New York Times’ Jenny Vrentas pointed out Wednesday that the CBA says the NFL’s ruling is “full, final and complete.” She quoted a labor law expert who said, because of that clause, whatever the NFL brings back will be airtight against judicial overturn. The NFLPA can buy time or goodwill from its members by drawing this out, but the new CBA, signed in 2020, is just like the old ones: The NFL has ironclad language in its corner that will give it the “win,” as it did in Deflategate and other cases that have gone to court. A handful of Browns fans and generally anti-NFL analysts have floated ideas of far-reaching lawsuits that would turn the league on its head and embarrass owners. That’s not how any of this works. There is, in the end, one outcome.
Click to expand...

This is the most damning part. Unless, Watson settles for 12 games and a fine. I don't think he plays this year.
 
CBBI said:
Kevin Clark pretty much nailed it.

www.theringer.com

The NFL Had No Choice But to Appeal the Deshaun Watson Suspension

On Wednesday, the NFL appealed the six-game suspension that Judge Sue L. Robinson gave the Browns QB. But while the league will likely get the longer punishment it wants, nobody will win in this case.
www.theringer.com www.theringer.com
Click to expand...
I totally disagree with that article.

"It decided Wednesday it’d rather have people angry at the process than angry at a lax punishment."

And that's completely wrong. The important thing is having a fair and unbiased process which is what we got. Instead, they don't like the outcome so now they're throwing out a good process for some Goddell bullshit that is based on public outcry and nothing else. Imagine if our legal system worked this way. The process doesn't matter and every time there's an outcome the public gets upset about we throw out the process and switch to something that will satiate the mob.

Having a fair and unbiased process is the most important thing, which is what we got here. Sometimes you'll like the outcome, sometimes you won't but the important thing is the process is fair unlike this.

"If Watson’s suspension had stayed at six games, it would have kept a broken system broken. Not just because it would mean that virtually no personal conduct policy violation could extend beyond six games."

Again false. The judge clearly indicated that the NFL needs to have much more clear and defined violations and punishments. If it wants more than 6 games put the violations into the CBA along with what the punishment is.
 
I imagine that the NFL has simply wheeled out their entire arsenal to set up control over a negotiation. They're in position now to both claim absolute moral high ground as well as come off looking the benevolent despot. They want a demonstration their absolute control over any player, which is something that I think they may feel has slipped a bit.

I think their goal now is to force Watson to his knees and demonstrate a shred of contrition. Naturally, he will continue to resist that strenuously.
That's where things could really go South fast for the Browns. If he "came clean" it would be of enormous benefit to us and everyone, but he may not be ready or willing to go there now or ever.

Would the NFL kill his career for this? It certainly looks like that's one of their options, a big, big gun that is now loaded and aimed. They want total control over their minions, and they've killed careers before.

Nevertheless, things always look darkest before Dawn. Gonna be some wheeling and dealing yet. I hope.
 
red. said:
Click to expand...
Juice is Loose said:
This is the most damning part. Unless, Watson settles for 12 games and a fine. I don't think he plays this year.
Click to expand...
If the indefinite suspension is pushed through, there’s only one way this will end: The NFL Players Association will sue, and this will end up in federal court. The NFL will eventually get its way, however long that takes. The New York Times’ Jenny Vrentas pointed out Wednesday that the CBA says the NFL’s ruling is “full, final and complete.” She quoted a labor law expert who said, because of that clause, whatever the NFL brings back will be airtight against judicial overturn. The NFLPA can buy time or goodwill from its members by drawing this out, but the new CBA, signed in 2020, is just like the old ones: The NFL has ironclad language in its corner that will give it the “win,” as it did in Deflategate and other cases that have gone to court. A handful of Browns fans and generally anti-NFL analysts have floated ideas of far-reaching lawsuits that would turn the league on its head and embarrass owners. That’s not how any of this works. There is, in the end, one outcome.

The bolded is 100% incorrect. I don't know if the author of the article misconstrued or if the context is missing.

But simply put, there is no such thing as airtight anything against judicial overturn; if something breaks the law, or clearly violates a CBA a judge can absolutely overturn. Just like the old saying that there is no such thing as a waiver that absolves one from negligence, there is no such thing as an ironclad CBA punishment decision if there is malfeasance on the part of one of the contracted parties or a violation of the CBA.

At this point I think we have to remember that the NFL is 100% trying to control the narrative, and that many writers are being told a point of view when it comes to the legal reality behind what a Court can and cannot do in the event the NFLPA files a lawsuit. Because every time something like the above is quoted in an article I have to think that someone is getting bad or curated information because the law is really clear. The NFL is trying to present Watson's case as hopeless to make any potential NFLPA lawsuit appear frivolous and venal the second it is filed because it needs to win the battle of public opinion. Everyone should keep that in mind.

And of course NFL lawyers are going to present it that way.

That said, again, I am not making a judgement here on the merits of the possible case. And, as a matter of precedence, it is pretty hard to meet the legal standard required to have a Court vacate an outcome from a CBA's arbitration process. But it is possible. And has happened.
 
Out of the Rafters at the Q said:
Robinson found that Watson had violated all three provisions based on the evidence presented.
  1. Sexual assault
  2. Danger to the safety and well-being of another
  3. Undermining or putting at risk the integrity of the NFL
She even called this the most egregious pattern of conduct the NFL has had to review.
Click to expand...
Not trying to single you out here, but I think this is a bit misleading... I've been seeing a lot of this "he violated all three provisions!" stuff going around, and thought it worth clarifying that it's actually 3 of 14 provisions. Doesn't mean the allegations aren't serious, but let's not represent the findings like he broke every rule in the book. She also shit on the lack of definition behind any of the provisions (other than the NFL's post-hoc efforts at defining them).

Also on the "most egregious pattern" line that the national media is jumping all over... I think it's important to consider the preceding language:

Although this is the most significant punishment ever imposed on an NFL player for allegations of non-violent sexual conduct, Mr. Watson’s pattern of conduct is more egregious than any before reviewed by the NFL.

To me that reads like his conduct is more egregious than any other non-violent case reviewed prior. That's part of how she justified making a recommendation that Watson be suspended for 6 games - or twice as long as any other non-violent offender. That's a lot different than her believing these allegations are more egregious than allegations of rape, etc.

And don't get me wrong, I don't condone the alleged behavior here, and I'm not trying to say Watson is a saint and all the alleged victims are liars... but I just think the presumption of guilt and the willy-nilly nature of the NFL's process are also pretty fucked up.
 
Which ever side your own the reality is the NFL and Watson and his reps and NFLPA has had over a year to come up with a resolution and could not do it. Watson would have been better served to settle much much earlier so he could speak more clearly about having remorse over the situation. The NFL could have given teams much more clarity during the sweepstakes and last year when teams tied to trade for him, or put him on an exempt list. Now they are making it into a even bigger story that takes away attention from the actual season. Spending over a year doing an investigation that leads into a 5 week trial period , then deciding not use the decision of someone much more qualified than you, so you can just do whatever you want is a gigantic waste of time. But then again NFLPA needs to do a better job of negotiating in future cbas.

Also if the nfl is not even going to investigate the Texans for being involved in something that they want to give an Indef suspension to, it could possibly open up a legal angle that Florio brought up earlier. Maybe they are going to investigate the Texans but as of now are saying the matter is resolved. At this point I don’t see how they can not investigate the Texans and not be called out for it,
 
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Wondering now if DeShaun only settled the cases (with I assume a corresponding NDA and/or sealing of the records) so the NFL couldn't use those ladies' testimonies for the appeal (gathering more info and claimants since they didn't have near enough apparently).
 
UDcleveland said:
Not trying to single you out here, but I think this is a bit misleading... I've been seeing a lot of this "he violated all three provisions!" stuff going around, and thought it worth clarifying that it's actually 3 of 14 provisions. Doesn't mean the allegations aren't serious, but let's not represent the findings like he broke every rule in the book. She also shit on the lack of definition behind any of the provisions (other than the NFL's post-hoc efforts at defining them).

Also on the "most egregious pattern" line that the national media is jumping all over... I think it's important to consider the preceding language:

Although this is the most significant punishment ever imposed on an NFL player for allegations of non-violent sexual conduct, Mr. Watson’s pattern of conduct is more egregious than any before reviewed by the NFL.

To me that reads like his conduct is more egregious than any other non-violent case reviewed prior. That's part of how she justified making a recommendation that Watson be suspended for 6 games - or twice as long as any other non-violent offender. That's a lot different than her believing these allegations are more egregious than allegations of rape, etc.

And don't get me wrong, I don't condone the alleged behavior here, and I'm not trying to say Watson is a saint and all the alleged victims are liars... but I just think the presumption of guilt and the willy-nilly nature of the NFL's process are also pretty fucked up.
Click to expand...
This is spot on.
 
Sebastian said:
But simply put, there is no such thing as airtight anything against judicial overturn; if something breaks the law, or clearly violates a CBA a judge can absolutely overturn. Just like the old saying that there is no such thing as a waiver that absolves one from negligence, there is no such thing as an ironclad CBA punishment decision if there is malfeasance on the part of one of the contracted parties or a violation of the CBA.
Click to expand...

But that is what Vrantas is saying?

I don't think the lawyer is saying "the judge couldn't overturn the ruling if there was a violation of the CBA"

The lawyer is saying "having read the CBA - Goodell (or his appointee) are clearly able to levy any suspension that they want given the decision of the independent arbitrator (who found that Watson did violate NFL rules)".
 
Comforting to know I was right this whole time.

I giggle at Miss Sue for playing some “morality” role in this whole thing, she’s gotta regret her decision to work with the NFL.

My conclusion from her report is zero game suspension, I don’t agree with it but that’s what I got out of her findings. She’s trying to protect her public imagine through this whole thing.

Playing in the NFL isn’t a right it’s a privilege and I think most of these players take that for granted.

Deshaun is a hypocrite just like the NFL. I’m no fan of Kapernick, but he’s not committing crimes against humanity while preaching equality.
 
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