Deshaun Watson Off the Field Thread v3: 11 games, $5M

Sebastian said:

That said, again, I am not making a judgement here on the merits of the possible case. And, as a matter of precedence, it is pretty hard to meet the legal standard required to have a Court vacate an outcome from a CBA's arbitration process. But it is possible. And has happened.

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I’m glad you said this part because this was ultimately a big part of my point from before when I quoted you earlier.

Anyone who says there’s “no chance” the NFLPA wins in court or cites some sort of "ironclad" clause in the CBA, myself and many others, IMO none of them actually mean it literally and you continuing to suggest how wrong people are when they say it is kind of missing the forest through the trees.

I don't want to put a percentage chance on the odds because that's inappropriate and I'd be talking out of my ass, but you are clearly smart and understand how difficult it is to have a court vacate a CBA's arbitration process.

So yes, you're right in the respect that it *could* happen because it's happened before in other cases throughout the history of legal battles against arbitration, but you're obviously very aware that the odds of it happening are incredibly slim.

At some point when the likelihood of something happening is so slim, a lot of people don't feel the need when making their point of adding the additional caveat of "well in extremely limited scenarios, this has actually happened before!" - So yes, those people are "wrong" because it's not 100% no questions, but at some point for the sake of a discussion like this, there's really not a tangible difference between 100% and whatever extremely high percentage chance it would actually be that the NFL would win the lawsuit.

A person wins the lottery every week, it doesn't mean it's likely to happen for everyone playing, ya know?

Watson has continued to deny everything. I wonder if they sue and try to claim that he didn’t violate any NFL conduct policy. Would be an interesting angle

UDcleveland said:

Not trying to single you out here, but I think this is a bit misleading... I've been seeing a lot of this "he violated all three provisions!" stuff going around, and thought it worth clarifying that it's actually 3 of 14 provisions. Doesn't mean the allegations aren't serious, but let's not represent the findings like he broke every rule in the book. She also shit on the lack of definition behind any of the provisions (other than the NFL's post-hoc efforts at defining them).

Also on the "most egregious pattern" line that the national media is jumping all over... I think it's important to consider the preceding language:

Although this is the most significant punishment ever imposed on an NFL player for allegations of non-violent sexual conduct, Mr. Watson’s pattern of conduct is more egregious than any before reviewed by the NFL.

To me that reads like his conduct is more egregious than any other non-violent case reviewed prior. That's part of how she justified making a recommendation that Watson be suspended for 6 games - or twice as long as any other non-violent offender. That's a lot different than her believing these allegations are more egregious than allegations of rape, etc.

And don't get me wrong, I don't condone the alleged behavior here, and I'm not trying to say Watson is a saint and all the alleged victims are liars... but I just think the presumption of guilt and the willy-nilly nature of the NFL's process are also pretty fucked up.

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What about it do you find misleading?

You're right that he didn't break all 14 provisions of the NFL Conduct Policy. My word choice of "All three" could have read "All three provisions that the NFL was claiming he broke." However, I don't think my word choice is misleading at all. Nobody is claiming that Watson was using steroids (provision 7) or engaging in animal cruelty (provision 8).

So, help me understand where you're coming from. To me, it feels weird for someone to come in and say "All three? You're misleading people. Watson didn't have a gun on him." (provision 6)

For the "egregious" part, I think it's important to look at the actual subject of that second sentence. The judge isn't referring to his conduct. The judge is referring to the pattern of conduct.

The judge is saying that Watson's pattern of conduct is more egregious than that of any case prior--and not just comparing it to non-violent cases. This is referring to the serial, repetitive nature of Watson's conduct.

That also doesn't necessarily mean that Watson is worse than any other case. It just means no other case has exhibited such a pattern. I know it wasn't tried, but Aaron Hernandez's behavior clearly was worse--but he didn't kill 70 people so he didn't exhibit a pattern in the same way Watson did.


If you want a more clear definition of what "pattern of conduct" the NFL and Judge Robinson are referring to, it's on page 4:

How long does the appeal process take?

Mr. Orange said:

How long does the appeal process take?

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TBD.

The NFLPA has 2 days (until Friday) to reply to the NFL's appeal and then theoretically the appeal can take as long as the NFL wants it to take since they're the ones reviewing it.

CBBI said:

TBD.

The NFLPA has 2 days (until Friday) to reply to the NFL's appeal and then theoretically the appeal can take as long as the NFL wants it to take since they're the ones reviewing it.

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But he can play while it is appealed right?

Mr. Orange said:

But he can play while it is appealed right?

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No.

The NFLPA will have to file a lawsuit and be granted a temporary injunction by a judge for Watson to be eligible to play. No guarantee the latter happens, especially since the NFLPA (to date) hasn't fought the original 6-game suspension from Judge Robinson.

CuriousMinds said:

My conclusion from her report is zero game suspension

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How do you come to this conclusion?

Judge Robinson believes that Watson sexually assaulted multiple masseuses. Why do you feel that deserves no suspension?

Mr. Orange said:

How long does the appeal process take?

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People are guessing.......but I'll have to see if it is tweeted somewhere as well.

Shefty opined on air that a source says expedited is a matter of a few weeks and that it wouldn't drag in to the season.

So the NFLPA would have to push for a lawsuit via federal court (post appeal) for Watson to likely get on the field for week one.

The most likely outcome is the suspension will go to 10-12 games during the appeal, this season will be flushed and everyone will move on.

If the NFL says indefinite, non negotiable, I suspect the NFLPA will sue the league. But that is a guess. If they sue the league post appeal, he could play but it isn't a guarantee.

My guess is that for Watson to even possibly be eligible in Week 1, the NFLPA will have to express in their written response to the NFL's appeal some sort of response where they fully reject/appeal the original 6-game suspension.

Otherwise, it seems like the earliest Watson would be able to play is Week 7 with whatever additional suspension the NFL tacks on in legal mumbo jumbo until the lawsuit is settled.

macbdog said:

Quitting the NFL because they are trying to punish a guy who, in the judges ruling, is an unrepentant serial sexual assaulter... Interesting hill to die on. Carry on.

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I am not speaking to Watsons actions and perceived guilt.

I’m speaking to the complete charade. We are watching our own propaganda trial, similar to Griners, being conducted by a FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

This Watson crap has been filling the news cycle for 18 months; if Goodell and the owners truly cared about this, and felt they had to step in and levy a punishment, they could have so long before this; instead, they allowed this due process thing with Robinson to go one for months, and because they didn’t like the result, their authoritarian regime can just rip up the result, and issue any punishment they want? (remember the NFL is the prosecutor here, so they are appealing from a position offense basically,, something not permitted in standard democratic courts of laws).

And the NFL talks about power imbalance in Watsons case? Walk the walk. And now the media and NFL are judging Watsons contrition? And the Browns contrition? How can you know or judge based on something like that?

My feelings towards the NFL, and the total authoritarian attitude, from punishments, to player health, to player contracts, to the racial undertones…are just to the point I have a hard time not being at best indifferent. And I certainly don’t buy the nonsense they are selling. Authoritarian, propaganda, moving targets, commercial sponsorships and money over democracy and justice…that’s the NFL. The same league who covered up concussions and refused to pay for pay players medical care despite billion dollar profits…

Bkerr02 said:

Watson has continued to deny everything. I wonder if they sue and try to claim that he didn’t violate any NFL conduct policy. Would be an interesting angle

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The judge has already ruled he violated the NFL conduct policy. That is literally what she was put there for, is to be the independent arbitrator to determine if a suspension is necessary. Had she ruled Watson hadnt violated the NFL conduct policy and a suspension isnt necessary, then there is nothing the NFL could have done.

Erbium said:

I am not speaking to Watsons actions and perceived guilt.

I’m speaking to the complete charade. We are watching our own propaganda trial, similar to Griners, being conducted by a FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

This Watson crap has been filling the news cycle for 18 months; if Goodell and the owners truly cared about this, and felt they had to step in and levy a punishment, they could have so long before this; instead, they allowed this due process thing with Robinson to go one for months, and because they didn’t like the result, their authoritarian regime can just rip up the result, and issue any punishment they want? (remember the NFL is the prosecutor here, so they are appealing from a position offense basically,, something not permitted in standard democratic courts of laws).

And the NFL talks about power imbalance in Watsons case? Walk the walk. And now the media and NFL are judging Watsons contrition? And the Browns contrition? How can you know or judge based on something like that?

My feelings towards the NFL, and the total authoritarian attitude, from punishments, to player health, to player contracts, to the racial undertones…are just to the point I have a hard time not being at best indifferent. And I certainly don’t buy the nonsense they are selling. Authoritarian, propaganda, moving targets, commercial sponsorships and money over democracy and justice…that’s the NFL. The same league who covered up concussions and refused to pay for pay players medical care despite billion dollar profits…

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this is kinda all over the place, but lets be clear. The NFL players associated agreed to this process. Any complaints about the process or perceived power the NFL has, all goes back to the fact that there is an agreement between the NFL and the NFLPA to use this process.

But furthermore, the NFL is a business. Generally speaking business like to make money. The NFL is going to do whatever it takes to continue to make money. They are bigger than Watson and they coudlnt give two shits about these women. The idea that the NFL or any company cares about "Fair play" is laughable and isnt something that should even be considered. A business at the end of the day is generally goign to do whatever is best for its bottom line

CBBI said:

TBD.

The NFLPA has 2 days (until Friday) to reply to the NFL's appeal and then theoretically the appeal can take as long as the NFL wants it to take since they're the ones reviewing it.

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Can someone explain what this means? I don't really understand the point here. They have 2 days to reply, in what fashion? To make a written statement acknowledging the appeal? What is the point of that and why is there a deadline associated with it? From what I understand they can't "accept" or "reject" the appeal, so why is this a thing?

I can't wait to read the NFL's decision.