Deshaun Watson Off the Field Thread v3: 11 games, $5M

I will also say the idea of Watson losing a bunch of money, in excess of $50M dollars, by having his suspension carryover into 2023 isn't likely either because the Browns will almost certainly convert his 2023 base salary (the only salary of his eligible to be lost via suspension) to a bonus (not eligible to be lost via suspension) anyway.

CBBI said:

I will also say the idea of Watson losing a bunch of money, in excess of $50M dollars, by having his suspension carryover into 2023 isn't likely either because the Browns will almost certainly convert his 2023 base salary (the only salary of his eligible to be lost via suspension) to a bonus (not eligible to be lost via suspension) anyway.

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Why would they do that?

The Human Q-Tip said:

Why would they do that?

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1) They made a contract offer in good faith with Watson, which most likely tilted Watson to picking the Browns as his landing spot. The Browns don't want to sour the relationship between them and their star QB over a few million dollars which they already negotiated.

2) It is an easy F.U. to Goodell and the league and shows current and potential future agents/players they will treat them in a fair manner. It builds the "us against the world" for the team, coaches and management.

Randolphkeys said:

Enough with the awkward Kaepernick suggestions:


He was barely in the NFL in 2017. Never developed past a gimmick, and now he is five years older.

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I should have been clearer. I don't care if he ever took a snap. If Watson is suspended for the year, it would bring me joy to be the team who hands Kaepernick a bag of cash just to spite the other owners/Goodell.

The Human Q-Tip said:

Why would they do that?

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Whenever it eventually happens, the Browns are going convert the base salary of Year 2 of Watson's 5 year deal into a bonus for cap manipulation purposes regardless of his suspension status.

So hypothetically...

Let's say the NFL announces a full season suspension for Watson. Let's say the NFLPA fights it in court and through a series of legal dealings, he ends up playing some games in 2022 and the remainder of his full season suspension ends up getting kicked into 2023.

As it presently stands Watson would stand to lose significant money because his entire 2023 salary is $45M in base salary right now. 45/17 = 2.7M per game in base salary per game, so if his suspension extends into 2023 he could lose a lot of money.

But for cap reasons, the Browns are gonna take that Year 2 45M base salary and convert it into a bonus, lowering it to about 11.25M in base salary.

11.25M is only 661K per game, so a suspension that bleeds into 2023 would be a lot less from a cost perspective.

Now there's a whole bunch of unknowns about whether or not Watson's contract will accrue or toll, but we don't have the answers to that just yet.

The point is, there's not really any scenario where Watson will be severely penalized financially from a suspension perspective. His contract is simply not set up in a way where he'll be hit hard financially by missing games.

southernflyer said:

1) They made a contract offer in good faith with Watson, which most likely tilted Watson to picking the Browns as his landing spot. The Browns don't want to sour the relationship between them and their star QB over a few million dollars which they already negotiated.

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You said 50 million, not a "few" million, and it wouldn't be the Browns doing it, but the NFL. So I don't think anyone is going to view that as bad faith on the part of the Browns if the NFL imposes a punishment that goes into next season. I think converting that salary to bonus after the NFL has levied a fine would look extraordinarily bad - set a terrible precedent where fines could be avoided simply by converting them to bonuses.

southernflyer said:

2) It is an easy F.U. to Goodell and the league and shows current and potential future agents/players they will treat them in a fair manner. It builds the "us against the world" for the team, coaches and management.

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The problem is "us against the world" in this context is that it isn't just a players' mindset, but actually setting up the franchise in opposition to the NFL and other owners. There's a good chance the NFL would either void that modification, or hold that the amount of the fine is determined as of the moment the fine is imposed, and any after the fact conversion of that salary to a bonus wouldn't impact Watson's obligation to pay it. The Browns would be picking a brand new fight with the entire league, and not for their own benefit but for Watson's.

The dude got signed to a massive guaranteed deal. Trying to weasel out of a fine after you've lost in court -- assuming it ever gets there -- is just something I think the league wouldn't accept. If I'm the Browns, there's no way I'd do that. They made a good faith effort to shield Watson from fines in that initial deal, and it isn't their fault that Watson's conduce resulted in a fine for which neither side apparently planned.

CBBI said:

Whenever it eventually happens, the Browns are going convert the base salary of Year 2 of Watson's 5 year deal into a bonus for cap manipulation purposes regardless of his suspension status.

So hypothetically...

Let's say the NFL announces a full season suspension for Watson. Let's say the NFLPA fights it in court and through a series of legal dealings, he ends up playing some games in 2022 and the remainder of his full season suspension ends up getting kicked into 2023.

As it presently stands Watson would stand to lose significant money because his entire 2023 salary is $45M in base salary right now. 45/17 = 2.7M per game in base salary per game, so if his suspension extends into 2023 he could lose a lot of money.

But for cap reasons, the Browns are gonna take that Year 2 45M base salary and convert it into a bonus, lowering it to about 11.25M in base salary.

11.25M is only 661K per game, so a suspension that bleeds into 2023 would be a lot less from a cost perspective.

Now there's a whole bunch of unknowns about whether or not Watson's contract will accrue or toll, but we don't have the answers to that just yet.

The point is, there's not really any scenario where Watson will be severely penalized financially from a suspension perspective. His contract is simply not set up in a way where he'll be hit hard financially by missing games.

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1)the browns are going to be very much under the microscope by the NFL if they do this, as it looks like they are trying to specifically get around the suspension ruling by the NFL (the CBA). This could very much be a highly punishable offense.

2) it means that instead of Watson counting against the cap 55 million for 4 years, he would count 73 million for 3 years.

bob2the2nd said:

1)the browns are going to be very much under the microscope by the NFL if they do this, as it looks like they are trying to specifically get around the suspension ruling by the NFL (the CBA). This could very much be a highly punishable offense.

2) it means that instead of Watson counting against the cap 55 million for 4 years, he would count 73 million for 3 years.

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Yeah, I could see Goodell nailing the Browns for this. As in costing us a draft pick. I wouldn't go anywhere near this.

bob2the2nd said:

1)the browns are going to be very much under the microscope by the NFL if they do this, as it looks like they are trying to specifically get around the suspension ruling by the NFL (the CBA). This could very much be a highly punishable offense.

2) it means that instead of Watson counting against the cap 55 million for 4 years, he would count 73 million for 3 years.

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I don't think it matters. They're converting that money regardless of the suspension status to free the immediate cap space.

The plan from the moment the contract was agreed to, the Browns structured it in a way to where they'd be able to have the ability to make the first two years as cheap as possible from a cap hit perspective. It was totally independent from Watson's possible suspension.

The Human Q-Tip said:

Yeah, I could see Goodell nailing the Browns for this. As in costing us a draft pick. I wouldn't go anywhere near this.

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I don't really think this hypothetical scenario is going to play out anyway because the odds of it playing out in the way I laid it out require an extremely specific set of circumstances.

Watson would also have to have his suspension carry over into 2023 in addition to playing enough games in 2022 for this season to count on his contract.

The odds of that happening seem remarkably low, albeit not impossible if the NFLPA is able to drag out a very lengthy lawsuit.

CBBI said:

I don't think it matters. They're converting that money regardless of the suspension status to free the immediate cap space.

The plan from the moment the contract was agreed to, the Browns structured it in a way to where they'd be able to have the ability to make the first two years as cheap as possible from a cap hit perspective. It was totally independent from Watson's possible suspension.

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I agree with you, but if we've learned anything from this saga it's that the facts don't matter. The NFL is going to sway with public opinion.

Hell, the public still thinks the only reason Watson has a $1M base salary this season is to save him from taking a huge financial hit with the suspension. Total disregard for the salary cap implications and the fact that the Browns do this for all their big deals.

Perception unfortunately matters with this dumb ass league more than anything else. I don't trust them in any capacity anymore.

CBBI said:

I don't really think this hypothetical scenario is going to play out anyway because the odds of it playing out in the way I laid it out require an extremely specific set of circumstances.

Watson would also have to have his suspension carry over into 2023 in addition to playing enough games in 2022 for this season to count on his contract.

The odds of that happening seem remarkably low, albeit not impossible if the NFLPA is able to drag out a very lengthy lawsuit.

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Thankfully this is true so this probably isn't even worth further discussion.

CBBI said:

I don't think it matters. They're converting that money regardless of the suspension status to free the immediate cap space.

The plan from the moment the contract was agreed to, the Browns structured it in a way to where they'd be able to have the ability to make the first two years as cheap as possible from a cap hit perspective. It was totally independent from Watson's possible suspension.

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If the Browns always planned for this then what you are describing is (probably) an intentional circumvention of the CBA. (though the NFL would probably look the other way)

If the browns still go through with this even after the the suspension is announced, then not only does it look like the browns were always planning to circumvent the CBA, they also circumvented the punishment handed down by the NFL. Once again I would be extremely cautious about doing this
if i was the browns.

bob2the2nd said:

If the Browns always planned for this then what you are describing is (probably) an intentional circumvention of the CBA. (though the NFL would probably look the other way)

If the browns still go through with this even after the the suspension is announced, then not only does it look like the browns were always planning to circumvent the CBA, they also circumvented the punishment handed down by the NFL. Once again I would be extremely cautious about doing this
if i was the browns.

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Is this not what the Rams have been doing for years. It’s basically kicking the can down the road.

bob2the2nd said:

If the Browns always planned for this then what you are describing is (probably) an intentional circumvention of the CBA. (though the NFL would probably look the other way)

If the browns still go through with this even after the the suspension is announced, then not only does it look like the browns were always planning to circumvent the CBA, they also circumvented the punishment handed down by the NFL. Once again I would be extremely cautious about doing this
if i was the browns.

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Literally every single team in the NFL does it every single offseason, some teams do it with multiple players every offseason (Saints, Rams, others). It's perfectly legal within the CBA.

There's nothing at all about it that is a circumvention of the CBA, c'mon now.