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Do you believe in God?

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Sol Invictus.
 
I am one with the Force and the Force is with me
 
Well, if true, I appreciated it nonetheless!
Let me simplify what I was saying.

No one knows for sure if BBT or The Bible (or any other concept of origin) is right.
I couldn't reply further earlier; sorry if that came across as rude (@The Oi )

I'm not committed to things as a certainty. I try to present evidence that suggests something is the case. I can never claim that any particular explanation is confirmed with 100% certainty; no one can. The laws of science are consistently reliable. Science is based on explanations being open to modification due to new evidence. The models that science offers are amenable to testing and revision. That way, when we find further information, we modify what the scientific model is.

SCIENTIFIC METHOD.jpeg

Whichever path you "believe" in is based on non empirical data.

That's not true. You seem to be equating faith in the Big Bang theory and faith in God as being on equal/opposite sides of the equation. The evidence I hear for God is visions, dreams, claims for divine visitation/revelation and faith. The evidence for the Big Bang results from carefully taken measurements of natural forces in the real world. The model is the result of math and analysis to address the question, "what is the explanation for the origin the universe?" It was a model that made testable predictions. Then scientists built the Hubble telescope and other instruments, which allowed us to measure the microwave background radiation, confirming that the model was indeed accurate.


All this back-and-forth misses the more significant point. Not believing in Big Bang cosmology as an explanation for the origins of our universe does nothing to bring you closer to the existence of a God. We can only look after the Planck time, which is a fraction of a second beyond the event. So what lies before the Planck time is an unknown, but you can't claim and conclude that the best explanation is God.
 
I couldn't reply further earlier; sorry if that came across as rude (@The Oi )

I'm not committed to things as a certainty. I try to present evidence that suggests something is the case. I can never claim that any particular explanation is confirmed with 100% certainty; no one can. The laws of science are consistently reliable. Science is based on explanations being open to modification due to new evidence. The models that science offers are amenable to testing and revision. That way, when we find further information, we modify what the scientific model is.

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That's not true. You seem to be equating faith in the Big Bang theory and faith in God as being on equal/opposite sides of the equation. The evidence I hear for God is visions, dreams, claims for divine visitation/revelation and faith. The evidence for the Big Bang results from carefully taken measurements of natural forces in the real world. The model is the result of math and analysis to address the question, "what is the explanation for the origin the universe?" It was a model that made testable predictions. Then scientists built the Hubble telescope and other instruments, which allowed us to measure the microwave background radiation, confirming that the model was indeed accurate.


All this back-and-forth misses the more significant point. Not believing in Big Bang cosmology as an explanation for the origins of our universe does nothing to bring you closer to the existence of a God. We can only look after the Planck time, which is a fraction of a second beyond the event. So what lies before the Planck time is an unknown, but you can't claim and conclude that the best explanation is God.
Yeah, your previous couple of post in this thread came off very condescending, at least to myself, especially regarding the Big Bang Cosmology. I have a feeling that post in particular was the reason for KevinLoveFan’s post defending her religious belief. Your post came across very dismissive of faith. I’m glad you came back and clarified that you simply meant to explain your view because you tend to give us a lot of great scientific facts and data.

I think most of us can agree that we hate to be preached to, one way or the other. As much as I dislike someone forcing their religious views on me, I just as much despise when people feel the need to tear down anyone’s personal faith when unprovoked. It’s one think if they are trying to make you see ‘their light,’ but it’s entirely something else if someone asked another person their opinion and they are admonished for giving it.
 
I can’t tell if this thread is evolving, or if it is drifting off course. Are we now discussing Christianity and religion in general? Or are we just talking about the existence of god? Because honestly, I’m enjoying all the different ideas people have for what God means to them individually.

So far, I think the most interesting opinion, and I apologize for not remembering who wrote it, was the one believing we would come to see a physical manifestation sometime in the future of someone, or something, that we will consider to be God. I find that fascinating and have never thought to look at God that way. He/she/it may be able to capture the belief of those with faith yet most likely be able to be explained by science.
 
Yeah, your previous couple of post in this thread came off very condescending, at least to myself, especially regarding the Big Bang Cosmology. I have a feeling that post in particular was the reason for KevinLoveFan’s post defending her religious belief. Your post came across very dismissive of faith. I’m glad you came back and clarified that you simply meant to explain your view because you tend to give us a lot of great scientific facts and data.

I think most of us can agree that we hate to be preached to, one way or the other. As much as I dislike someone forcing their religious views on me, I just as much despise when people feel the need to tear down anyone’s personal faith when unprovoked. It’s one think if they are trying to make you see ‘their light,’ but it’s entirely something else if someone asked another person their opinion and they are admonished for giving it.
Well said.

People’s beliefs on god(s) tend to be deeply held for a variety of different reasons.

I have never believed for certain that there was one/any, but I have always been interested in learning about other people’s beliefs and their experiences with religion.

For that reason, I’ve never felt comfortable shooting faithful people down solely for their beliefs.
 
I can’t tell if this thread is evolving, or if it is drifting off course. Are we now discussing Christianity and religion in general? Or are we just talking about the existence of god? Because honestly, I’m enjoying all the different ideas people have for what God means to them individually.

So far, I think the most interesting opinion, and I apologize for not remembering who wrote it, was the one believing we would come to see a physical manifestation sometime in the future of someone, or something, that we will consider to be God. I find that fascinating and have never thought to look at God that way. He/she/it may be able to capture the belief of those with faith yet most likely be able to be explained by science.
If you follow the Biblical narrative, you still have The Anti-Christ to come before Armageddon.
I used to read Revelations in Church a lot. It was an interesting Book as it pertained to future events.
 
Well said.

People’s beliefs on god(s) tend to be deeply held for a variety of different reasons.

I have never believed for certain that there was one/any, but I have always been interested in learning about other people’s beliefs and their experiences with religion.

For that reason, I’ve never felt comfortable shooting faithful people down solely for their beliefs.
I knew people who didn't believe in God but wouldn't step on cracks on the sidewalk, sparing their poor Mother's backs, lol.
We're a weird species. :)
 
I knew people who didn't believe in God but wouldn't step on cracks on the sidewalk, sparing their poor Mother's backs, lol.
We're a weird species. :)
Funny you should mention that. There are A LOT of non-religious people like myself that will do superstitious things while watching sports so as not to jinx the team. I remember a watching a Cavs game that I had DVR’d several years ago in which I refused to watch it in real time because when I did, they would fall behind, but if I kept rewinding it in 2 minute increments and fast forwarded through the commercials they would keep scoring. Every time I caught up to real time, I paused the game for 2 minutes. I’m the reason they won that game.

I have issues.
 
@Hurl Bruce hit my entire experience with religion on the head…

Every day I grow older, I become more cynical (despite actively trying to keep cynicism at bay)… and with that I drift further from the possibility that any higher power exists. In stride with my growing cynicism is increased awareness of my own mortality. Aging, losing loved ones, raising children that I know will have to watch me go… all of these things bring with it the fear and anxiety that others have alluded to.

For that reason I cling to hope (not belief) that there is something more, that I’ll see my loved ones again, that we don’t just get one chance, that I don’t have to come to terms with the end of my consciousness. An anxious/self preservation motivated relationship with god is where I’m at today… I’m sure it will further evolve over the years as it has up to this point.

I do feel a sense of spirituality born from nature, connection to others, the love of my children… where that fits in feels very much in this life and independent of god for now.

Great thread…my brain has been swirling around this and adjacent topics for the last few years… it figures it’s RCF where I’m able to read a thoughtful dialogue about it. Thanks to everyone willing to share.
 
Funny you should mention that. There are A LOT of non-religious people like myself that will do superstitious things while watching sports so as not to jinx the team. I remember a watching a Cavs game that I had DVR’d several years ago in which I refused to watch it in real time because when I did, they would fall behind, but if I kept rewinding it in 2 minute increments and fast forwarded through the commercials they would keep scoring. Every time I caught up to real time, I paused the game for 2 minutes. I’m the reason they won that game.

I have issues.
That’s funny. For a while I was convinced if we DVRed the start of game and didn’t start watching with full focus on the game from the beginning while it was happening, we would lose. But or we were ready to watch when the game started, we would win.

Of course that’s ridiculous because the “live” feed is itself time delayed.
 
I've wondered about God's existence since I was a teenager. My parents were atheists who observed some religious holidays just for decency, so since childhood, I was unfamiliar with the culture of faith or rituals. My grandmother told me about Catholicism, who continued to attend church despite my mother's views. I was lucky to stumble upon firstchurchlove.com When I was already shrouded in darkness and almost believed a lie. God exists through love and energy, which we share with people. I never say that I am right or that everyone should believe me. This comes with time.
 
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What you guys are describing isn’t necessarily related to god.

It’s common with sports fans to do things like that in an effort to “control” the outcome of games as a way to diffuse building anxiety.

Other fans might find themselves drumming on things, tapping, kicking their legs, crossing arms, etc.

Self-soothing behaviors.

You should always ask for an attorney to begin with…but if you’re a fan who does these things, you’re probably a terrible liar (not that this is a bad thing) and would get absolutely destroyed in a police interrogation.
 
There are theories that religious people live longer than atheists and agnostics.

I would guess (without proof) this has to do with two things. And I’d be interested to hear from religious folks on whether I’m close:

-believing in a higher power leaves religious people less inclined to try to control every aspect of their lives.

An intent to control the uncontrollable leads to increased stress on other pre-existing conditions. Pick one. Even if you don’t have one, you can’t control everything. If there’s someone/something out there you can delegate the bigger scarier things to, then life becomes significantly less stressful.

-people tend to increase church attendance at the end of their lives. I have never spoken with anyone on this, but my theory here is that whether they believe in the church’s teachings or not, the time spent with others extends their lives.

Who is better off? A 75 year old atheist who has lost their friends and family and stays in the house all day or a 75 year old atheist who goes to church twice a week?

Probably #2, even if they disagree with the teachings. More opportunities to find friends and a companion, some of whom might also be atheists/agnostics on the DL.

I’ll offer an example. I’m mostly extroverted, but I spend as much time as I can writing by myself for work and pleasure. That includes posting on here.

Right now I have a wife and kids and family whom I see when I choose to. I also have friends who I see when I choose.

My life is pretty much what I want as far as other people go.

BUT If I lost all of these people tomorrow, I’d have a BIG problem. I’d be in a deep fuckin hole fast.

I sure wouldn’t want to be sitting inside writing very much. I might well lose the thing I love doing the most in addition to the people that contribute the most to my life.

Would that drive me to religion and going to church? Maybe. I’d need to meet people somewhere ASAP. I’m confident I could make new friends without a problem, but would I need to sacrifice my principles and change by belief system- or claim to?

Might be reinvention time…

I just wonder if this is going to happen to millennials and gen Z’ers. I’m trying to think that one out now.

Boomers found pickleball. If we don’t do religion, will we have a sport?
 
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