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1995 Indians vs the 1997 Indians vs the 2016 Indians

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No Kenny, no Belle, not as good as '95.

For me it's really that simple. Grissom was no Kenny Lofton, and nobody was '95 Albert Belle.

Why selectively pick just steals, doubles, triples, and total bases?

In 1997, Kenny posted 5.0 WAR in 122 games. '97 Grissom posted 1.9 WAR in 144 games.

Grissom's OPS+? 83. Kenny's was 119. OPS .837 for Lofton, .713 for Grissom.

2.1 dWAR for Lofton, 1.3 dWAR for Grissom.

Far superior at the plate, far superior defensively... I have a hard time saying that Grissom "replaced Lofton's production with ease." I think it's more like the two aren't even in the same galaxy. It's like arguing that Jordan Luplow can replace Francisco Lindor with ease (if they played the same position).
I carefully chose those to fit my narrative that the 1997 Indians were better
 
I carefully chose those to fit my narrative that the 1997 Indians were better
I was also under 10 at the time of the trade, Kenny was possibly my favorite player, and he was my grandma's favorite player. She died a year or two earlier and was the first death I had to go through as a child.

So... yeah, I may have an irrational love for Kenny.

Me: Mom, can we stop for Kenny Lofton?
Mom: No! We have Kenny Lofton at home!

Kenny Lofton at home:
jul-07-2009-denver-colorado-usa-washington-nationals-coach-marquis-DKFNJM.jpg


:chuckle:
 
I was also under 10 at the time of the trade, Kenny was possibly my favorite player, and he was my grandma's favorite player. She died a year or two earlier and was the first death I had to go through as a child.

So... yeah, I may have an irrational love for Kenny.

Me: Mom, can we stop for Kenny Lofton?
Mom: No! We have Kenny Lofton at home!

Kenny Lofton at home:
jul-07-2009-denver-colorado-usa-washington-nationals-coach-marquis-DKFNJM.jpg


:chuckle:
Marquis Grissom was mostly not good throughout his career. He was especially not good in Cleveland (except for the ALCS if I’m remembering correctly)
 
Wasn’t the Pedro deal for Wright and Colon though? Still should have made that deal, but still, wasn’t just Jaret, I don’t think
I remember it as being Colon or Wright
 
Marquis Grissom was mostly not good throughout his career. He was especially not good in Cleveland (except for the ALCS if I’m remembering correctly)
He was mostly "not good" because he was not Kenny Lofton. But like Kenny, Marquis had a very long career in the major leagues. Unlike Kenny, it was largely because he was genuinely liked as a teammate. Kenny always was much more talented, but he had to be with that prickly personality of his. Had Kenny possessed Marquis's personality, I daresay he'd be in the Hall of Fame today. But then, without that chip on his shoulder, maybe Kenny wouldn't have been as good as he was as long as he was. Lofton was outstanding with special needs kids during his tenure in Cleveland, though, but it was a side he rarely showed to the public (some would say to this credit...he wasn't a grand stander).

Marquis had a very short peak, putting three consecutive 5.0+ WAR years together in his mid-20's for the Montreal Expos. He was definitely quite good during that time and, on the basis of that run, he managed another eleven years in the game after that. No, Marquis isn't even worthy of being called a poor man's Kenny Lofton, but when you're named after a car coming down the assembly line by a weary autoworker dad and you end up buying each of your twelve siblings a house, I think you had a pretty good run in the game.
 
He was mostly "not good" because he was not Kenny Lofton. But like Kenny, Marquis had a very long career in the major leagues. Unlike Kenny, it was largely because he was genuinely liked as a teammate. Kenny always was much more talented, but he had to be with that prickly personality of his. Had Kenny possessed Marquis's personality, I daresay he'd be in the Hall of Fame today. But then, without that chip on his shoulder, maybe Kenny wouldn't have been as good as he was as long as he was. Lofton was outstanding with special needs kids during his tenure in Cleveland, though, but it was a side he rarely showed to the public (some would say to this credit...he wasn't a grand stander).

Marquis had a very short peak, putting three consecutive 5.0+ WAR years together in his mid-20's for the Montreal Expos. He was definitely quite good during that time and, on the basis of that run, he managed another eleven years in the game after that. No, Marquis isn't even worthy of being called a poor man's Kenny Lofton, but when you're named after a car coming down the assembly line by a weary autoworker dad and you end up buying each of your twelve siblings a house, I think you had a pretty good run in the game.
That’s what I meant, he had a few good/really good years and was not good in all the rest. Thus, mostly not good.
 
That’s what I meant, he had a few good/really good years and was not good in all the rest. Thus, mostly not good.
I'm sorry, I knew what you meant...didn't mean to sound like I was correcting you. Just didn't want to leave anyone with the impression that Marquis didn't have a career worth commenting upon. He was a good dude, and a 30 career WAR puts you in, what, top 5% all-time of guys who played in the major leagues? Plus, I have a REAL soft spot for that HR he hit in Camden Yards in postseason 1997. I don't think people remember how skeptical everyone was of that run we were making and I don't think we make the World Series without that jolt to the Orioles solar plexus.

In retrospect, were the Indians correct in making the Lofton-Grissom trade? I just never warmed to the idea of David Justice in a Tribe uniform, so I say no, but others may view David's contributions and the transaction differently. Since we got Kenny back a year later, maybe the whole thing was a wash, or in our favor because of Justice's contributions, but there's something strange about that deal and why we--and Kenny--had to go through it. I think it only added to the chip on Lofton's shoulder, to be honest. Like we sent him to his room for awhile.
 
Not sure if this was brought up, but anyone remember Chuck Finley had to miss a start because Tawny Kitaen (his wife and from the White Snake videos) attacked him with her stiletto while he was driving?
 
Not sure if this was brought up, but anyone remember Chuck Finley had to miss a start because Tawny Kitaen (his wife and from the White Snake videos) attacked him with her stiletto while he was driving?
That went into a rabbit hole of my memory. Baseball has some of the oddest injuries
 
Not sure if this was brought up, but anyone remember Chuck Finley had to miss a start because Tawny Kitaen (his wife and from the White Snake videos) attacked him with her stiletto while he was driving?
Who remembers the Mike Kekich - Fritz Peterson wife& life swap! Both players wound up on the Indians, of course.
 
That went into a rabbit hole of my memory. Baseball has some of the oddest injuries
Aside from the Bauer drone incident, off the top of my head I remember Marty Cordova missing a start from over-tanning in a bed, Jeff Kent broke his wrist from "washing his car" and Joel Zumaya hurt his wrist playing too much Guitar Hero. And a non-baseball one: Chuck Person broke his ankle by sitting on it too long while talking on the phone to his girl.
 
Aside from the Bauer drone incident, off the top of my head I remember Marty Cordova missing a start from over-tanning in a bed, Jeff Kent broke his wrist from "washing his car" and Joel Zumaya hurt his wrist playing too much Guitar Hero. And a non-baseball one: Chuck Person broke his ankle by sitting on it too long while talking on the phone to his girl.

Wasn't there a guy who tripped over his dog and tore a ligament or something?

Baseball is wild
 
Former NBA superstar Eddie Griffin injured in that masturbatory car crash.
 
The 2017 team was so much fun to watch- I loved watching our lineup smack teams around. It really seemed like that was our year and I was so crushed when things went south against the Yankees. I still think Kluber's back was bothering him more than he ever let on.
Shoulder
 

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