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2018-2019 Tank Thread

weepinwillow

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The problem I have with White, Hunter, and Culver is i think they will evolve to pretty OK players.. probably.. if I were to stand any one of them next to Rodney Hood, I would be hard pressed to differentiate. I see a difference between them and Barret, but.. not between each other. In fact i would have Okeke as a better choice than all of those guys pre injury.. he is bigger, a better shooter, and a team defense guy..

What has worked with sexton at 8, was his upside and desire to achieve it. He clearly had skills being the best player on a bad team, but he was also willing to work hard to get better..

Thats why I am saying Goga maybe at 4, because if he succeeds he changes the equation.. or trade back and pick up maybe white AND Okeke, increasing the odds that one will achieve special..

I also think picking up a 6 8 wing really helps us the most, because I think, cedi gets better opposite another 6 8 wing. Cedi has the handles to play 2, and with Sexton at the point the back court is going to be loaded. Or when you are resting sexton, you can use cedi and wing 2, or nance to bring the ball up and initiate..
Hood would be the one shitting his pants on the wide open jumpers in the playoffs.

I don't believe in trading back in the NBA. That's for the NFL, where I don't really believe in doing it either.

Take BPA. I think Hunter can be really, really good. Tobias Harris-Leonard-peak Danny Granger on the high end, Jeff Green on the low end (I know, when you say the low end, everyone goes: why take Jeff Green at 6? Well because the high end is f-ing Kawai Leonard).

I'm not big on Cedi, he's OK, maybe an OK rotation guy on a good team eventually. I guess he has the handles to play the 2, but he has the decision making to play the towel boy.

I think Okeke and Goga, if that's who you like, can be had with the Rocket pick (or a small trade up w/JR's contract & the Rockets pick). Not sure that Goga is any different than Zizic, but ok.
 

Bulldog2Buckeye

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I’m really interested in Kabengele (?) with the Rockets pick. Big, blocks shots, shoots 3s. Pretty desirable skill set for someone who should be available at 26.
 

inliner311

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The problem I have with White, Hunter, and Culver is i think they will evolve to pretty OK players.. probably.. if I were to stand any one of them next to Rodney Hood, I would be hard pressed to differentiate. I see a difference between them and Barret, but.. not between each other. In fact i would have Okeke as a better choice than all of those guys pre injury.. he is bigger, a better shooter, and a team defense guy..

What has worked with sexton at 8, was his upside and desire to achieve it. He clearly had skills being the best player on a bad team, but he was also willing to work hard to get better..

Thats why I am saying Goga maybe at 4, because if he succeeds he changes the equation.. or trade back and pick up maybe white AND Okeke, increasing the odds that one will achieve special..

I also think picking up a 6 8 wing really helps us the most, because I think, cedi gets better opposite another 6 8 wing. Cedi has the handles to play 2, and with Sexton at the point the back court is going to be loaded. Or when you are resting sexton, you can use cedi and wing 2, or nance to bring the ball up and initiate..
I see real NBA skills that translate to the NBA from Hunter and White. Hunter uses his size inside to slash and gets right to the rim. How good of a shooter he is can't be discounted. Unlike Hood, he makes quick decision and his shot selection is what you want for a NBA player.

White to me looks like a 6'5 version of Sexton. He seems to have better handles than Sexton and is more willing to shoot off the dribble from 3. White might be a slightly more natural PG than Sexton but is similar that they are both attack and score first guards. Sexton is quicker and if paired together he probably would be the one that scores off the ball more. Sexton and Ja Morant seem like a better pairing on the offensive side but Sexton and White would be the better pairing on the defensive side since White is 6'5.

I think White and Hunter are my 4 and 5 pick right now. I don't like Culver's game. I think he has a ceiling of Demar DeRozan but the chances of him hitting that is small. Culver plays ugly and I think he will be streaky but won't play bad enough to ever completely change his game, similar to Jordan Clarkson.
 
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CleveRocks

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Hood would be the one shitting his pants on the wide open jumpers in the playoffs.

I don't believe in trading back in the NBA. That's for the NFL, where I don't really believe in doing it either.

Take BPA. I think Hunter can be really, really good. Tobias Harris-Leonard-peak Danny Granger on the high end, Jeff Green on the low end (I know, when you say the low end, everyone goes: why take Jeff Green at 6? Well because the high end is f-ing Kawai Leonard).

I'm not big on Cedi, he's OK, maybe an OK rotation guy on a good team eventually. I guess he has the handles to play the 2, but he has the decision making to play the towel boy.

I think Okeke and Goga, if that's who you like, can be had with the Rocket pick (or a small trade up w/JR's contract & the Rockets pick). Not sure that Goga is any different than Zizic, but ok.
So if Okeke is available at 26, how is he different than Hunter than makes hunter a 4-6. I am just not seeing that. They are about the same size and very similar stats. Hunter is a slightly better shooter, but Okeke a better rebounder. in actual play, I think Okoke was more aggressive, but that's based on a small sample. If we wind up 4-5 and we take hunter, I hope he succeeds and in fact becomes Leonard 2.0 (with better team loyalty). But I am not sure he is going to be franchise changer. ..

I am not arguing with you in regard to Goga/Zizic. They might be the same guy. Or Goga may be the next Jokic. I don't know. In any case I am not thrilled with 4-5-6..
 

inliner311

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So if Okeke is available at 26, how is he different than Hunter than makes hunter a 4-6. I am just not seeing that. They are about the same size and very similar stats. Hunter is a slightly better shooter, but Okeke a better rebounder. in actual play, I think Okoke was more aggressive, but that's based on a small sample. If we wind up 4-5 and we take hunter, I hope he succeeds and in fact becomes Leonard 2.0 (with better team loyalty). But I am not sure he is going to be franchise changer. ..

I am not arguing with you in regard to Goga/Zizic. They might be the same guy. Or Goga may be the next Jokic. I don't know. In any case I am not thrilled with 4-5-6..
Okeke tore his ACL so that factors in alot to his potential draft position. If he comes out, teams can't work him out. His rookie season will be lost and it will be one less year to develop then evaluate him for his next contract. He probably won't be fully himself till halfway thru his second year.
 

rcj47

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The draft is all about elephant hunting when you are not already in title contention. Workhorse solid players are likely useless long term. I didnt like the Bennett pick at the time but that draft lacked any consensus that could reasonably considered the clear choice at the top. At least this one has 3-4 that could be keepers. And position needs to be irrelevant. If he is worthy of a top 5 pick then he should be worthy of moving others to make him fit.
Assuming Williamson & Morant go 1 & 2, there is only one player I would be interested in inside the lottery - Coby White. I think he has the all-star potential although he may be raw initially somewhat like Sexton. He has both the ability that warrants a lottery pick and he also fits a need at the same time for the Cavs in that they need a legit shooting guard in a bad way. He has the size for it at least and has already demonstrated the ability to shoot from distance.

The thing is, while I think White merits a lottery pick, you might be able to get him lower than positions 4-6 so it might be worth trading down a bit, getting him there, and trying to pick up another low 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder. It's a risk but might be worth it if the Cavs view the players that will be available in that area like I do.

I think there are a lot of good players in that area going to be available and some might surprise down the road. Possible trading teams and I don't necessarily mean trading out of our high lottery pick with them. The Cavs could also possibly trade Smith's contract, Clarkson, or Thompson to gain more picks in this draft if the deal is right:

Atlanta: have 5 picks, 1st round have two in the lottery and three in the second round (35/41/44). I would trade with Atlanta anyways just to try and get as many picks from them as I can because I think they are building a juggernaut.

Philadelphia: has 5 picks also, 1st round pick #24, round 2 has them with four picks: #33, 34, 42, & 54. Philly has no use for all of these picks given where there team is even if they let Butler go. I'd love to get both of the early 2nd rounders.

Boston: 4 picks - 3 in the 1st round - one in lottery, #20, 22, second round #51. They are in a similar situation as Philly.
 

CleveRocks

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Okeke tore his ACL so that factors in alot to his potential draft position. If he comes out, teams can't work him out. His rookie season will be lost and it will be one less year to develop then evaluate him for his next contract. He probably won't be fully himself till halfway thru his second year.
Do you think he was a 4-6 pick before the injury? I am thinking he was not in the lottery projections..

My point is that hunter is in that pack..

I also think okoke might be a good pick for us at 26 if he is around, in that he will not affect us next year. But could have an impact in year 2.. i dont see pick 4 through 6 putting us in a contending path, but rather potentially on the Ok treadmill.
 

weepinwillow

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So if Okeke is available at 26, how is he different than Hunter than makes hunter a 4-6. I am just not seeing that. They are about the same size and very similar stats. Hunter is a slightly better shooter, but Okeke a better rebounder. in actual play, I think Okoke was more aggressive, but that's based on a small sample. If we wind up 4-5 and we take hunter, I hope he succeeds and in fact becomes Leonard 2.0 (with better team loyalty). But I am not sure he is going to be franchise changer. ..

I am not arguing with you in regard to Goga/Zizic. They might be the same guy. Or Goga may be the next Jokic. I don't know. In any case I am not thrilled with 4-5-6..
The injury happened and is real, so there's that. But I think Hunter is more of a legit 3 while Okeke feels more like a tweener (which now days may not matter as much as it once did).

I don't think Hunter will fail in the pro's, I just wonder if he'll ever reach top end potential (all star) or just end up being a solid starter. If you want to play a ball movement motion offense that the Cavs have been preaching, Hunter will fit into that system perfectly. He'll take the right shots, make the extra pass, space the floor, cut when he's supposed to and then he will go down to the other end and defend at a high level.

What he won't do out the gates: isolate and kill whoever is in front of him all game long. Maybe someday, but not day one.

just my opinion based on what I've seen.
 

MrX

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I like Dylan Windler at 26. He is a 6' 8" guard that puts up 21pts 10rebs 2.5ast 1.4stl

Has a step back 3 he often takes from nba range and better shooting almost 43%. Doesn't need a lot of time to get his shot off. 54% from the field. Over 60% 2pt and 84% from the line

Shame on me for saying this but I see a lot of Curry in those 3s.
:party smiley 004:
 

stoike

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I see real NBA skills that translate to the NBA from Hunter and White. Hunter uses his size inside to slash and gets right to the rim. How good of a shooter he is can't be discounted. Unlike Hood, he makes quick decision and his shot selection is what you want for a NBA player.

White to me looks like a 6'5 version of Sexton. He seems to have better handles than Sexton and is more willing to shoot off the dribble from 3. White might be a slightly more natural PG than Sexton but is similar that they are both attack and score first guards. Sexton is quicker and if paired together he probably would be the one that scores off the ball more. Sexton and Ja Morant seem like a better pairing on the offensive side but Sexton and White would be the better pairing on the defensive side since White is 6'5.

I think White and Hunter are my 4 and 5 pick right now. I don't like Culver's game. I think he has a ceiling of Demar DeRozan but the chances of him hitting that is small. Culver plays ugly and I think he will be streaky but won't play bad enough to ever completely change his game, similar to Jordan Clarkson.
Culver is still growing and improving, which intrigues me. But he needs to work on his shot as religiously as Sexton, or he will never reach his ceiling, which to me IS higher than DeRozan because he is already a much better defender than Demar. FAR from as good of a scorer...as of now.
 

6.19.2016

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2013 draft Cavs had #1 pick took Bennett the biggest bust ever meanwhile one of the best players in the game went at the #15 pick. Had the Cavs taken the Bucks superstar we probably would have won multiple championships and LeBron and Kyrie would still be here.
yeah, but no one had Giannis in the top 5, let alone #1 overall. Of the people in consideration for the top pick, Dipo *probably* should have been the pick but he took years to develop and his fit with Kyrie and LeBron is questionable.

it’s like bashing the T-wolves for taking busy Derrick Williams. Back then he was THE consensus #2 in the draft (some say should have went #1).

But your point of Bennett being turrible is taken. Grant was such a shitty drafter
Again, my view is drafting Giannis/Dipo/Hyphen likely = 8th seed the next season = no 2014 #1 pick to entice LeBron to come back to, without comparative trade value to the Wiggins pick from them, given that Giannis only put up 6.8/4.4/1.9 his rookie year even if he would've generated more wins than Bennett.
 

CavsFan07

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Kabengele would be an absolute steal at 26, but I just can't see him being there. With his mix of size, potential, and even blood line, someone is going to gamble on him before we get to him. If you're sitting around the 15th-20th picks and he's available, do you really think there's higher potential?

Granted, that area tends to start leaning more towards fit and positional needs. But I can't see a team like San Antonio at #19 passing up on him.
 

CavsFan07

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I like Dylan Windler at 26. He is a 6' 8" guard that puts up 21pts 10rebs 2.5ast 1.4stl

Has a step back 3 he often takes from nba range and better shooting almost 43%. Doesn't need a lot of time to get his shot off. 54% from the field. Over 60% 2pt and 84% from the line

Shame on me for saying this but I see a lot of Curry in those 3s.
:party smiley 004:
I could absolutely get on board with Windler at 26. There's a kid who's improved basically every statistic each year he's been in college and is a proven winner. His coach raves about him. His game might even project better at the next level, honestly.

I see someone who could be a slightly better Joe Harris as his worst case scenario.

He's another one climbing the draft boards.

Here's a good article on him:

https://www.nba.com/article/2019/04/01/dylan-windler-draft-feature
 
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