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2019-20 Roster Construction

CBBI

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Waive JR sure, Stretch Knight, no fucking way.

WIth an owner willing to spend, you cant stretch anyone, it kills your cap space for years to come, look at the lakers who are losing 5 mill in cap because of stretching someone.

Make other moves to get under the luxury cap, but we cant stretch anyone, its just a bad move of desperation.
Like 99% of the time you are right, but if the Cavaliers are truly desperate to get under the tax this year to start the reset of the repeater tax like it appears they are, then a stretch is absolutely the way to go.

With all the expiring contracts on the roster, the Cavaliers are currently projected to be about $75 million dollars UNDER the 2020-2021 luxury tax. Kicking 5M of Knight's stretched salary into 20-21 and 21-22 is the way to go.

This is truly one of the extremely rare scenarios where it makes sense. A team that's desperate to reset the tax this upcoming year, but has literally no chance of being in the tax the following year.
 

Lee

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Like 99% of the time you are right, but if the Cavaliers are truly desperate to get under the tax this year to start the reset of the repeater tax like it appears they are, then a stretch is absolutely the way to go.

With all the expiring contracts on the roster, the Cavaliers are currently projected to be about $75 million dollars UNDER the 2020-2021 luxury tax. Kicking 5M of Knight's stretched salary into 20-21 and 21-22 is the way to go.

This is truly one of the extremely rare scenarios where it makes sense. A team that's desperate to reset the tax this upcoming year, but has literally no chance of being in the tax the following year.
other ways, give away TT and an asset like a 2md round pick at the deadline when it wont matter or give away knight at the deadline, but the one I think will happen is Clarkson, he has a ton of value even at 13 mill to any playoff team without a deep bench, a guy who can score off the bench like that is huge.
 

sailfish

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Like 99% of the time you are right, but if the Cavaliers are truly desperate to get under the tax this year to start the reset of the repeater tax like it appears they are, then a stretch is absolutely the way to go.

With all the expiring contracts on the roster, the Cavaliers are currently projected to be about $75 million dollars UNDER the 2020-2021 luxury tax. Kicking 5M of Knight's stretched salary into 20-21 and 21-22 is the way to go.

This is truly one of the extremely rare scenarios where it makes sense. A team that's desperate to reset the tax this upcoming year, but has literally no chance of being in the tax the following year.
Totally agree. The stretch provision is a last resort, but one they will absolutely utilize if it means getting below the luxury tax. One thing they won’t do is trade away an asset, along with a contract, as that’s counterproductive to what they’re trying to do.

If they can find a team(s) that are willing to absorb a contract(s), like Kevin Love’s, into their cap space that would work as well, but, the problem with that, is it often lessens the return.

If the Cavs are above the luxury tax, another problem is they will dealing from a point of weakness. Other teams will know the Cavaliers’ situation and it will affect the offers that come in.
 

sailfish

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other ways, give away TT and an asset like a 2md round pick at the deadline when it wont matter or give away knight at the deadline, but the one I think will happen is Clarkson, he has a ton of value even at 13 mill to any playoff team without a deep bench, a guy who can score off the bench like that is huge.
So you think another team is going to absorb TT’s $17M contract into their cap space? I’ve got news for you. It will take more than a 2nd round pick to make that happen. The time to make those deals is this summer, while teams have cap space. Again, the only problem is you’re likely taking back $0.50 on the $1 in any deal.
 

CBBI

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other ways, give away TT and an asset like a 2md round pick at the deadline when it wont matter or give away knight at the deadline, but the one I think will happen is Clarkson, he has a ton of value even at 13 mill to any playoff team without a deep bench, a guy who can score off the bench like that is huge.
I'm 100% not in the favor of giving up any sort of draft assets to shed salary to avoid the tax.

Absolutely not.

The Cavs can stretch Knight or Tristan or whoever they get back from a JR trade and almost certainly avoid the tax without having to give up any picks to do it.

They're gonna be so far under the tax the next two years that this is that 1 in 100 opportunity to use the stretch.
 

Lee

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So you think another team is going to absorb TT’s $17M contract into their cap space? I’ve got news for you. It will take more than a 2nd round pick to make that happen. The time to make those deals is this summer, while teams have cap space. Again, the only problem is you’re likely taking back $0.50 on the $1 in any deal.
At the deadline, when they don't have to pay it all, and we take back a smaller contract but big enough to get under the tax....yes, or Clarkson to the right team for a smaller contract
 

inliner311

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I'm not sure what the concern is with the luxury tax. They sit at 134 million with JRs contract right now and the rookies will make 5.3, 1.7, and 1.6. Luxury tax is at 132.

Waive JR and we are under the luxury tax by 2 million. We have 5 expiring contracts worth ~67 million they can shave off a couple million thru trades if they need to. Even if they use JRs contract they could take back less money than his 15 million. I think realistically if they are 6-7 million over the cap at the start of the season, they could realistically shave that off if they expect to trade all the expirings except Delly.

None of TT, Henson, Clarkson, or Knight are useless players. Playoff teams are usually willing to take on a couple million extra if the player helps them in the playoffs and expires to help them in free agency.
 

sailfish

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At the deadline, when they don't have to pay it all, and we take back a smaller contract but big enough to get under the tax....yes, or Clarkson to the right team for a smaller contract
You realize we’d have to give up an asset to make such a deal and that’s counterproductive to what the Cavaliers are trying to accomplish? I’d rather waive someone, via the stretch provision, than give up an asset.
 

inliner311

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You realize we’d have to give up an asset to make such a deal and that’s counterproductive to what the Cavaliers are trying to accomplish? I’d rather waive someone, via the stretch provision, than give up an asset.
I think you use the stretch provision if you can't trade one of our expires after the deadline and are over the luxury tax line. They can also use the stretch provision on the partially guarantee portion of JR's contract.

I think the stretch is a last ditch option and will only come into play if we take on a contract for JRs contract in the next week. If the contract we take back is an expiring, that will be 6 expirings worth anywhere between 78-82 million in total. Koby can shave off that extra amount thru trades.

Really I don't think Gilbert or Koby will use the stretch because it could limit them in the future. Stretch money is dead money. The Lakers are finding out how horrible of a decision it was to stretch Deng.
 

AussieCavFan

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You realize we’d have to give up an asset to make such a deal and that’s counterproductive to what the Cavaliers are trying to accomplish? I’d rather waive someone, via the stretch provision, than give up an asset.
Not necessarily, could provide a playoff team with a need for bench scoring Clarkson or Knight in exchange for an unplayable player or a player with 2 years on contract but with slightly less salary per year to get us under the tax. Without looking into the details of our situation, I think this could be an option?
 

sailfish

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Not necessarily, could provide a playoff team with a need for bench scoring Clarkson or Knight in exchange for an unplayable player or a player with 2 years on contract but with slightly less salary per year to get us under the tax. Without looking into the details of our situation, I think this could be an option?
We’re far enough above the tax that I don’t think a smaller deal like that is going to get it done.
 

Lee

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You realize we’d have to give up an asset to make such a deal and that’s counterproductive to what the Cavaliers are trying to accomplish? I’d rather waive someone, via the stretch provision, than give up an asset.
If its a usefull player like Clarkson, we would get an asset, maybe not a huge one, but maybe a couple of 2nd rounders.
 

CBBI

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I think you use the stretch provision if you can't trade one of our expires after the deadline and are over the luxury tax line. They can also use the stretch provision on the partially guarantee portion of JR's contract.

I think the stretch is a last ditch option and will only come into play if we take on a contract for JRs contract in the next week. If the contract we take back is an expiring, that will be 6 expirings worth anywhere between 78-82 million in total. Koby can shave off that extra amount thru trades.

Really I don't think Gilbert or Koby will use the stretch because it could limit them in the future. Stretch money is dead money. The Lakers are finding out how horrible of a decision it was to stretch Deng.
Every situation is completely different. There has to be a little more nuance to this than simply saying “never stretch!”

The Lakers expect to be free agency players every year they have cap space, so having dead money on their books is a much bigger problem for them than it would be for non free agency destinations like Cleveland.

LA also stretched Deng to open up more cap space which is a big no-no especially if you strikeout, which they did last summer outside of LeBron. Had they also signed Paul George like they arrogantly thought they would, no one would care about Deng's dead money this year.

The Cavs would be stretching to begin the reset process of the repeater luxury tax. Totally different scenario entirely.

Once the Cavs sign their three first round picks and assuming they tender Nwaba a qualifying offer, the Cavs will already be about 3.5M OVER the tax even if they waive JR Smith. If the Cavs do waive JR and then opt to use their 15th roster spot on another player, that figure will increase even more.

So long story short, the Cavs already have no flexibility to make moves using their treasure trove of expiring contracts to add money in exchange for incoming draft assets because they’re already over the tax.

The easiest solution, whether they use the JR Smith contract in a trade or not, is to stretch someone and the more likely candidate would be Knight since he’s a mostly useless player with a salary big enough to make a difference.

If the Cavs stretched Knight, they would go from 3.5M OVER the tax to 7 million UNDER the tax, giving them tons of freedom to explore deals using JR, Delly, Henson, Clarkson and Tristan and also ensuring they’d stay under the tax this season and start the reset of the repeater.

Now... let’s talk about how harmful it would be.

Stretching Knight would kick approximately 5.2M in dead money in 20-21 and 21-22.

Here are the guaranteed contracts the Cavs have on the books for 20-21.

Love
Nance
Garland
Sexton
Windler
Porter Jr.
Zizic
2020 1st Round Pick

That’s it.

Those 8 contracts combined are going to be about 70M depending on how high the 2020 first rounder is.

Let’s get aggressive with it and say the Cavs are able to flip some of the Delly, Henson, Clarkson, JR, Tristan expirings for three future first round picks and three contracts adding up to 40M in 20-21, that puts the Cavs at 110M in salaries.

Throw in that 2020 pick acquired and now the Cavs are at 113M for a nearly full roster.

Toss in a couple of guys making the veteran minimum and a second round pick, round up and we’ll say in the most aggressive scenario possible trade wise the Cavs will have 115M in committed salary for next year. Toss in Knight’s 5M in dead money and you’re at 120M.

The luxury tax for 20-21 is projected right now to be 142M.

So even in the absolute most aggressive scenario possible of the Cavs flipping expiring deals this year for 40M in salary next year AND factoring in a top draft pick AND factoring in another first round pick that the Cavs don’t even have yet, the closest I could get them was 22M short next year’s luxury tax even with Knight’s stretched amount on the books.

There’s just virtually no scenario where the Cavs pay the luxury tax in 20-21. Knowing that, the stretch absolutely is a legitimate option.
 
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Los216

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I would really like to trade for Clint Capela. His contract is not too bad. HOU is willing to deal him to help make a run at Jimmy Butler. He's a young, athletic, rim running defensive big. I like his fit next to Kevin Love and I especially like him anchoring our defense with Garland running PG. We're not a FA destination and it's not likely that we would be able to land a player like Capela who is a borderline All Star that's locked up for 4 more years. It makes a lot of sense to me to pursue this trade. I think HOU might be willing to do it. Capela is their most tradable asset. I could see them maing a deal like this for Capela and sending Eric Gordon to IND into their cap space to make room for Jimmy Butler. I think they want t do an opt in and trade scenario for Jimmy Butler like they did for CP3. If that's the case then Eric Gordon might have o go to Philly which I'm sure they'd welcome.
 

thedarkness2332

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I would really like to trade for Clint Capela. His contract is not too bad. HOU is willing to deal him to help make a run at Jimmy Butler. He's a young, athletic, rim running defensive big. I like his fit next to Kevin Love and I especially like him anchoring our defense with Garland running PG. We're not a FA destination and it's not likely that we would be able to land a player like Capela who is a borderline All Star that's locked up for 4 more years. It makes a lot of sense to me to pursue this trade. I think HOU might be willing to do it. Capela is their most tradable asset. I could see them maing a deal like this for Capela and sending Eric Gordon to IND into their cap space to make room for Jimmy Butler. I think they want t do an opt in and trade scenario for Jimmy Butler like they did for CP3. If that's the case then Eric Gordon might have o go to Philly which I'm sure they'd welcome.
If you're trying to acquire an overpaid 25 year old center, you are better off going with Steven Adams as OKC is basically desperate to shed cash...

They'd probably just give him away. Houston won't be just giving away Capela.
 

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