2021 NBA Offseason Thread

[Pioneer10]

It's way too early to call that and will probably be impossible to answer anyways, but the Cavs were an offensive powerhouse while the Lakers (especially with some tweaks, i.e. Iggy) can be a defensive juggernaut.

Cavs were a far more potent and prolific shooting team, but Davis is potentially better than Kyrie + Love combined, and that front court when engaged is just nasty...

They've been forced to go with Dwight and not small ball because that combo of Davis and Dwight has been crazy good on defense. I think this is one reason Lebron looks better on D as they have these two behind him in the 4th. They need another guard/wing though to be really great team (don't trust anyone outside of Green from the guard spot right now)

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

LeBron half assed it during the regular season so that he could carry that horrible supporting cast to the Finals. Larry Nance was the only other player with a positive BPM in the playoffs and the 12 non-LeBron players combined for a 0 VORP in the playoffs in 22 games. Would you rather he go all out on some random night in January or May? Because you're not going to get eight 40 point games in the playoffs from LeBron if you have him going all out midseason. The regular season is a marathon, not a sprint. All he had to do was get to the playoffs healthy.

And yeah, the rest of the team sucked. That shouldn't be controversial. I guess it was LeBron's fault that Kyle Korver shot 6% in the NBA finals? That JR Smith forgot what the score was? "All-star" Kevin Love was complete ass for half of the playoffs, averaging 11 ppg on 46% TS in the first round and 12.5 ppg on 48% TS in the ECF. LeBron left and the Cavs won 19 games the next season and had one of the worst defenses in NBA history. That must have been his fault too. But hey, at least he wasn't there "forcing everything to run through him."

LBJ didn't have to half-ass it to save himself for the playoffs. He could simply have played fewer minutes, and put forth better effort on both ends of the court during the minutes he played. Even taken some games off entirely. But he didn't want to do that because his individual stats would have suffered.

His decision to play more minutes but half-ass it destroyed offensive flow, hampered the development of other players' offensive games, and led to a lack of trust and cohesion on defense. His predictable and petulant regular season whining episodes didn't help either.

All those things bit us in the ass when the playoffs rolled around. Expecting other guys to step up and play in a more normal offensive flow when he'd spent the entire regular season pounding the ball and stopping that flow to rest up didn't work.

tl;dr Part of the reason other guys didn't contribute come playoff time was LBJ's own actions making the regulat season such a shitshow. His peerless individual play still enabled us to make the Finals, but we were less than we otherwise would have been when we got there.

 

[blommen]

LBJ didn't have to half-ass it to save himself for the playoffs. He could simply have played fewer minutes, and put forth better effort on both ends of the court during the minutes he played. Even taken some games off entirely. But he didn't want to do that because his individual stats would have suffered.

His decision to play more minutes but half-ass it destroyed offensive flow, hampered the development of other players' offensive games, and led to a lack of trust and cohesion on defense. His predictable and petulant regular season whining episodes didn't help either.

All those things bit us in the ass when the playoffs rolled around. Expecting other guys to step up and play in a more normal offensive flow when he'd spent the entire regular season pounding the ball and stopping that flow to rest up didn't work.

tl;dr Part of the reason other guys didn't contribute come playoff time was LBJ's own actions making the regulat season such a shitshow. His peerless individual play still enabled us to make the Finals, but we were less than we otherwise would have been when we got there.

We made the Finals Q-tip. Like, LBJ "half-assing it" worked. Do you think him "whining" less and taking more games off during the regular season would've had any meaningful effect on our chances against the Warriors? I absolutely agree that watching the Cavs in the regular season in 2017/2018 was a deeply frustrating experience, I hated watching us play that year. But to me the truly awful thing about that year was the inevitability of it all. We knew what the ultimate outcome was going to be, regardless of what we did. That team was never beating the Warriors no matter what LBJ did to change his process.

We didn't lose in the finals because of LBJ not playing defense and not being fully engaged for large parts of the regular season. We lost in the finals because we were monstrously outmatched from a talent perspective and that was never going to meaningfully change.

 

[Los216]

 

[Derek]

We made the Finals Q-tip. Like, LBJ "half-assing it" worked. Do you think him "whining" less and taking more games off during the regular season would've had any meaningful effect on our chances against the Warriors? I absolutely agree that watching the Cavs in the regular season in 2017/2018 was a deeply frustrating experience, I hated watching us play that year. But to me the truly awful thing about that year was the inevitability of it all. We knew what the ultimate outcome was going to be, regardless of what we did. That team was never beating the Warriors no matter what LBJ did to change his process.

We didn't lose in the finals because of LBJ not playing defense and not being fully engaged for large parts of the regular season. We lost in the finals because we were monstrously outmatched from a talent perspective and that was never going to meaningfully change.

If we were going to lose in the finals either way, I'll take the scenario where we get watchable games during the regular season

 

[blommen]

If we were going to lose in the finals either way, I'll take the scenario where we get watchable games during the regular season

Oh absolutely, I agree with that. That wasn't the argument though. The argument was that LeBron half-assing it hurt us in the playoffs, which I don't buy because LBJ did drag us through the east and into the finals where no amount of improved focus in the regular season would've made a difference anyway due to the gap in talent.

 

[MediumBaller]

LBJ didn't have to half-ass it to save himself for the playoffs. He could simply have played fewer minutes, and put forth better effort on both ends of the court during the minutes he played. Even taken some games off entirely. But he didn't want to do that because his individual stats would have suffered.

His decision to play more minutes but half-ass it destroyed offensive flow, hampered the development of other players' offensive games, and led to a lack of trust and cohesion on defense. His predictable and petulant regular season whining episodes didn't help either.

All those things bit us in the ass when the playoffs rolled around. Expecting other guys to step up and play in a more normal offensive flow when he'd spent the entire regular season pounding the ball and stopping that flow to rest up didn't work.

tl;dr Part of the reason other guys didn't contribute come playoff time was LBJ's own actions making the regulat season such a shitshow. His peerless individual play still enabled us to make the Finals, but we were less than we otherwise would have been when we got there.

The half-assing primarily took place during the 16 game stretch in January and early February. I think people are remembering that stretch and extrapolating it onto the rest of the season. The turning point in the season was the OT win over Minnesota. From that point on the Cavs went 20-10 to finish the season. After the all star break, lebron averaged 29/10/10 and had a 122 ORtg. The offense was playing at an elite level to finish the season when LeBron was on the court, so I don't buy that his effort was destroying the offensive flow. And in the playoffs in 2018 the Cavs had a 121 ORtg. The offense wasn't the problem. Running into an all-time juggernaut in the Finals was.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

The half-assing primarily took place during the 16 game stretch in January and early February. I think people are remembering that stretch and extrapolating it onto the rest of the season. The turning point in the season was the OT win over Minnesota. From that point on the Cavs went 20-10 to finish the season. After the all star break, lebron averaged 29/10/10 and had a 122 ORtg. The offense was playing at an elite level to finish the season when LeBron was on the court, so I don't buy that his effort was destroying the offensive flow. And in the playoffs in 2018 the Cavs had a 121 ORtg. The offense wasn't the problem. Running into an all-time juggernaut in the Finals was.

Nope.
We lost Doncic because of Lebrons half ass effort against the Nets, and him playing too hard against teams that we needed them to lose. Fucked us up.

 

[blommen]

Nope.
We lost Doncic because of Lebrons half ass effort against the Nets, and him playing too hard against teams that we needed them to lose. Fucked us up.

That has literally nothing to do with how we performed in the playoffs.

But yeah, if the argument is that 'Bron not being fully engaged tanked our draft chances in 2018 I'm willing to entertain that logic.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

That has literally nothing to do with how we performed in the playoffs.

But yeah, if the argument is that 'Bron not being fully engaged tanked our draft chances in 2018 I'm willing to entertain that logic.

Right. I'm talking about Lebron's nonchelante attitude during the RS. Lebron clearly playedh ard in the playoffs, at least according to my memory, but I may be wrong.

We win just 1 game against the Nets, we get Doncic.

 

[blommen]

Right. I'm talking about Lebron's nonchelante attitude during the RS. Lebron clearly playedh ard in the playoffs, at least according to my memory, but I may be wrong.

He carried our asses during the playoffs full stop. There were games where he took his foot off the gas for sure, but he had to in order to preserve himself for the full run.

Again, I'm absolutely in agreement that watching the regular season Cavs that year was a largely miserable experience, and if if one were to place some amount of blame on 'Bron for the specific Nets games and how that ended up impacting your draft picks I think there's an argument to be made. I still think there are too many variables in play for the blame to placed solely at his feet, but him being lethargic in those specific games sure didn't help.

 

[Kbiz]

Never change, RJ. We miss you buddy.

this oen

Watch "this oen" on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

*Kawhi and PG13 wreck the Lakers in 5*

*LBJ looks old but tries to deflect blame to AD any everyone else*

*AD sticks up the middle finger, leaves Klutch and signs with the Bulls next year*

Nice little pipedream to keep in your back pocket at least.

Seriously though, if the Clippers was the Lakers in the playoffs and LBJ looks old, I do think AD has to at least consider leaving for his own long-term benefit. LeBron is done getting better, thats for sure.

 

[cavsfever]

I've said from the beginning that there is a good chance this Lakers season turns into a train wreck and AD leaves. Championship or bust is tough. AD has consistently emphasized that he is a free agent next year, and I'm sure they have been begging him to extend for a while.

The problem is that this Lakers team has literally *nothing* in the cupboard to improve with if aging Lebron+AD are not good enough for a championship. It's not like the Lebron Heat where you can hope for improving chemistry, because Lebron is on the down slope year by year.

And they might not just need one championship, because AD will be looking ahead to next year! If they barely squeak through he might still make it one and done!

In spite of their performing well early in the season (better than I thought they would) I still don't think you can call the Lakers a championship favorite.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I've said from the beginning that there is a good chance this Lakers season turns into a train wreck and AD leaves. Championship or bust is tough. AD has consistently emphasized that he is a free agent next year, and I'm sure they have been begging him to extend for a while.

The problem is that this Lakers team has literally *nothing* in the cupboard to improve with if aging Lebron+AD are not good enough for a championship. It's not like the Lebron Heat where you can hope for improving chemistry, because Lebron is on the down slope year by year.

And they might not just need one championship, because AD will be looking ahead to next year! If they barely squeak through he might still make it one and done!

In spite of their performing well early in the season (better than I thought they would) I still don't think you can call the Lakers a championship favorite.

I just keep going back to the Clippers game where the Clips just outclassed them across the board without George. I just don't see how the hell the Lakers handle the Clippers perimeter attack, whereas Harrell can at least battle Davis and make him work defensively.

I could see the Lakers win 5-10 more games than the Clips to be honest but I think the Clips are the clear favorites in a series.