2019-2020 Around The NBA Thread

Rich

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What exactly are you trying to prove by going back almost a decade to dissect LeBron's worst playoff games? Yeah, he sucked in some playoff games. What superstar hasn't?

Hell, you can even look at Jordan for bad playoff games. Bulls go up 2-1 in the 1989 WCF. They stole home court in game 1. Jordan then loses 3 straight. Goes 5-15 in game 4, 4-8 in game 5 (wow Jordan only took 8 shots in a playoff game in a tied series?). Game 6 he goes 13-26, but only 5-12 from the free throw line. Yikes! Got out scored by Vinnie Johnson and Mark Aguirre in game 5.

We're a month away from 2020 and people are still harping on the 2011 Finals. It's because ever since that moment there's nothing LeBron's critics can really point to. Every superstar has had terrible playoff games. There just wasn't 24/7 social media analyzing every second of every game back then.
I wouldn't harp on it if you guys would stop crying about LeBrons oh so bad luck.

Hes played with how many top 20 players now? Multiple top 5 players?

All of his failures arent bad luck. Some of it is on him.

He also had the infamous cramp game in 2014 but we arent allowed to talk about that either I guess.
 

blommen

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I think what this ultimately comes down to is that luck always plays some part in championship wins at one level or another. Kevin getting his shoulder yanked out of socket in 15, Kyrie going down in the finals, Draymond getting a suspension at a very opportune time or the Thunder completely discombobulating while Klay ascended to godhood for the right amount of time in the WCF, etc. etc. There is always a certain element of chance at play and different factors compounding and expanding that have very tangible effects on the outcome of an NBA season. It's part of the game.

That being said, it obviously isn't everything and there are generally patterns to how some of these things play out that lends itself to discussion and analysis over whether "luck" sufficiently covers what actually is happening. Is Klay and KD getting massive injuries at the end of the post season unlucky? Fuck yeah, it is. But it also tracks with what we've generally seen happen to top heavy teams with extended periods of deep playoff runs and even deep championship runs. Fatigue, both mental and physical, is part of it, slowly deteriorating depth due to talent distribution is part of it, the rest of the league getting smarter to you is part of it. On a base level even the odds of some freak accident happening gradually increase the more time you spend on the floor.

The Warriors falling apart was the culmination of a lot of different factors, just like 'Brons failures over the years were the result of a ton of different factors. Some of them were self inflicted, some of them weren't. Ultimately, I think most of 'Brons percieved failures are more down to his situation than him specifically, same with the Warriors. LeBron generally did the best with what he had and sometimes the circumstances demanded more than that. The Warriors performed spectacularly for most of their stretch until they couldn't and they ran into a tremendous Raptors team which I still consider to be the best defensive team I have ever watched play basketball.
 

ACisKING

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I wouldn't harp on it if you guys would stop crying about LeBrons oh so bad luck.

Hes played with how many top 20 players now? Multiple top 5 players?

All of his failures arent bad luck. Some of it is on him.

He also had the infamous cramp game in 2014 but we arent allowed to talk about that either I guess.
For me that cramp game was bad luck. The air conditioning in the arena broke and it was over 100 degrees Fahrenheit in a San Antonio arena with around 20000 people in it. The Heat were well-positioned to win that game too.

You are also making a bit of a straw man argument. Nobody has said that all his failures are due to bad luck. He failed in 2010 and even worse in 2011, when he was the number one reason the Heat lost against the Mavs. He’s also had some other dud playoff performances along the way. And some of his successes are due to good luck (Ray Allen shot, suspension to Draymond, injury to Bogut, etc). But I do think if you look at the six finals he has lost, only once was he the biggest reason for the loss, or even a major contributing factor to the loss (2011). The others involved his team facing a vastly superior opponent (2007, 2017, 2018), or some poor injury luck (2014 with broken down Wade/Battier/Haslem/Miller/etc and 2015 with no Kyrie or Love).
 

cavsfever

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Sixers have been really underwhelming this season. They desperately lack outside shooting so far. Like Korkmaz is by far their best three point shooter. Ben Simmons is still not even willing to take a jump shot. Embiid continues to miss games, while looking out of shape. And their late game execution is atrocious. They basically have only two plays late in games - Joel Embiid mid-post iso and Josh Richardson iso at the top of the key. At this rate they will be a second round exit.
This is one of the most surprising things to me about this season. I really thought Harris, Horford, and Richardson would give them enough shooting in their starting lineup even with Simmons being a non-shooter. Embiid can hit open 3s so as I saw it they had only one real non-shooter among their starters. I felt like having the kind of size and defense they should have in that starting lineup combined with four solid shooters would really work well. But I guess having a dead eye pure shooting specialist matters more than I thought. Also, I hadn’t fully absorbed how much of a flake Embiid is. Doesn’t seem to have the personality to be an anchor star
 

Pioneer10

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For me that cramp game was bad luck. The air conditioning in the arena broke and it was over 100 degrees Fahrenheit in a San Antonio arena with around 20000 people in it. The Heat were well-positioned to win that game too.

You are also making a bit of a straw man argument. Nobody has said that all his failures are due to bad luck. He failed in 2010 and even worse in 2011, when he was the number one reason the Heat lost against the Mavs. He’s also had some other dud playoff performances along the way. And some of his successes are due to good luck (Ray Allen shot, suspension to Draymond, injury to Bogut, etc). But I do think if you look at the six finals he has lost, only once was he the biggest reason for the loss, or even a major contributing factor to the loss (2011). The others involved his team facing a vastly superior opponent (2007, 2017, 2018), or some poor injury luck (2014 with broken down Wade/Battier/Haslem/Miller/etc and 2015 with no Kyrie or Love).
Lebron definitely cost them the Dallas series but otherwise I would say he's had bad luck. Nothing has been worse for his career then landing on the Cavs with Paxson as GM. That's about as bad luck as you can get.

One could argue Jordan had a similar tough situation to begin his career but he got the opposite of the GS whirlwind. - Bird, Magic, the Pistons break down right when the NBA does a 4 team expansion in the space of a few years. Hit his prime with talent right when a Golden Generation was done and teams were so diluted that a Miami Heat team that featured Voshan Lenard, Sasha Danilovici, Isaac Austin, Dan Majerle, around Hardawy and Mourning was the best team they played in the EC playoffs.
 

Pioneer10

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Really hard for conspiracy theories to thrive when both Zion and Ja Morant are in small market teams. If Ja was in New York, he'd be getting some serious buzz right now.
 

Rich

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Lebron definitely cost them the Dallas series but otherwise I would say he's had bad luck. Nothing has been worse for his career then landing on the Cavs with Paxson as GM. That's about as bad luck as you can get.

One could argue Jordan had a similar tough situation to begin his career but he got the opposite of the GS whirlwind. - Bird, Magic, the Pistons break down right when the NBA does a 4 team expansion in the space of a few years. Hit his prime with talent right when a Golden Generation was done and teams were so diluted that a Miami Heat team that featured Voshan Lenard, Sasha Danilovici, Isaac Austin, Dan Majerle, around Hardawy and Mourning was the best team they played in the EC playoffs.
Ok but why id the GS monster ONLY bad luck for LeBron? Why not, say, Harden too? Why does Harden get shit on for not beating them and LeBron gets a pass?

Everyone has bad luck. I get that.

But Everyone, including LeBron, has good luck too.
 

Pioneer10

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Ok but why id the GS monster ONLY bad luck for LeBron? Why not, say, Harden too? Why does Harden get shit on for not beating them and LeBron gets a pass?

Everyone has bad luck. I get that.a

But Everyone, including LeBron, has good luck too.
Lebron's numbers and performances outside of the Dallas series has been just nuts. I mean the dude freakin averaged a 30 ppg triple double on a great FG% in the Finals. In another FInals he should've been the second player ever to win Finals MVP while being on the losing team.

Harden's playoff numbers particularly when compared to his regular season numbers are meh. It's not just luck but he hasn't been awesome in the playoffs

Another way to look at it, in a hypothetical tournament where teams were relatively equalized in terms of supporting talent to reduce the impact of luck no one would pick a team with Harden it over Lebron based on how they have performed in the playoffs
 
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ACisKING

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This is one of the most surprising things to me about this season. I really thought Harris, Horford, and Richardson would give them enough shooting in their starting lineup even with Simmons being a non-shooter. Embiid can hit open 3s so as I saw it they had only one real non-shooter among their starters. I felt like having the kind of size and defense they should have in that starting lineup combined with four solid shooters would really work well. But I guess having a dead eye pure shooting specialist matters more than I thought. Also, I hadn’t fully absorbed how much of a flake Embiid is. Doesn’t seem to have the personality to be an anchor star
Yea there’s a difference between guys who can shoot (like Harris, Horford, Richardson) and guys who have real gravity (Korver, Redick, etc). Their lack of a true creator is also a massive problem. They’re really gonna miss Jimmy Butler when the playoffs roll around. Embiid is not good enough of a passer in the post to have everything run through him. And his conditioning still isn’t as good as it needs to be to carry a team. More importantly, it’s hard to win in the modern NBA through solely feeding a big man with the zone defense rules and how much the rules generally favor perimeter players.
 

Cassity14

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Ok but why id the GS monster ONLY bad luck for LeBron? Why not, say, Harden too? Why does Harden get shit on for not beating them and LeBron gets a pass?

Everyone has bad luck. I get that.

But Everyone, including LeBron, has good luck too.
Harden has multiple massive chokes in his career against teams whose best player is out. If Golden State had ever beaten the Cavs without Durant healthy, LeBron would have been massacred.
 

Nathan S

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Cam Reddish is currently shooting 23.9% from the field and 17.9% from 3. Somehow he's not only playing, but *starting* for the Hawks, a team that's ostensibly trying to win games this year.
 

Cavatt

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Cam Reddish is currently shooting 23.9% from the field and 17.9% from 3. Somehow he's not only playing, but *starting* for the Hawks, a team that's ostensibly trying to win games this year.
Looking to me like we lucked out not picking any of the wings at 5. Still, Garland is not really shooting better. All these guys can play better
 

Pioneer10

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Watch a lot of people saying we should have picked Tyler Herro obviously are going to come out of the woodwo

@Nathan S where was he on your board?
 

Goldin Brown

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Nassir Little is a real guy, would love to get him in a Love trade.
 

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