2021 NBA Offseason Thread

[ACisKING]

Yea LBJ seems to have some kind of hard-on for playing up this "washed king" idea and shutting up the "haters". Dudes been bragging on social media nonstop about his performance this year. Funny thing is, the media has mostly been worshipping him all year and talking about how hes the runaway mvp, so it's not as if hes getting all this "hate". If anything, what I see from national media is the opposite - an overload of Lebron worship and much less attention paid to guys who are playing just as well such as Giannis, Luka, Harden etc. Hell even AD isnt getting as much credit as he probably should be. How is LeBron a lock for MVP when he plays with freaking AD?

But I also wonder if it's going to come back to bite the Lakers. They seem awfully interested in doing a lot of talking and chest puffing right now after talking all preseason about not talking and just playing. Buts it's a longgggg season. Bron is definitely ballin right now but can he do this all the way into June?

I’m not sure I agree with this. Consensus from most basketball media (Ringer, ESPN, SI, etc) is that Giannis is the early season MVP frontrunner (as he should be putting up prime Shaq numbers plus assists and elite defender). And Luka has gotten a ton of attention. Not just from the basketball hipster Ringer types, but even from the old heads like Barkley who said he’s been the MVP favorite so far.

Only guys who are declaring that LeBron is the early season MVP are guys who predicted LeBron would have a great season and who are enjoying being able to rub his early good start in the faces of their co-hosts who thought LeBron was no longer in the discussion for best player (like Shannon to Skip, Stephen A to Max, Kenny Smith to Barkley).

I also don’t buy that LeBron has invented the narrative that people thought he wasn’t the same caliber of player. Plenty of people were claiming LeBron wasn’t in the running for best in the world anymore (see above). Bill Simmons said he was the 7th best player in the league. Random people, even old allies like David Griffin, took shots at him all summer. Many in the media (rightfully IMO) declared Kawhi the best in the league based on how last season went. Hell after the first game against the Clippers everyone was burying LeBron.

I do agree that LeBron shouldn’t win MVP when he has AD on his team. Not when Giannis, Luka, and Harden have nobody similar on their teams and all three are putting up historic numbers. Giannis is doing it while having one of the best records in the game.

 

[Derek]

I think MVP will come down to Giannis, Luka, and Harden. It's a tight race right now.

 

[ACisKING]

The Lakers are gonna regret not putting Davis on the shelf for 3 weeks to rest that shoulder. Dudes are just gonna start smacking it everytime they foul him.

Never seen anyone wince more during a game. One second it’s the shoulder. Then a rib. Then he leaves for the locker room. Then he comes back. Then he grabs something else. It’s kind of incredible.

 

[cavsfever]

Yeah, the Lakers are playing russian roulette with basically their whole franchise by taking too many risks with him during the regular season. AD is their present and their future both.

 

[Stark]

PER

1. Luka Doncic, 33.3
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 32.0
3. James Harden, 30.1
4. LeBron James, 27.1

BPM

1. Luka Doncic, 14.2
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 12.3
3. James Harden, 9.8
4. LeBron James, 9.1

VORP

1. Luka Doncic, 2.2
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 1.9
3. James Harden, 1.9
4. LeBron James, 1.6

WS/48

1. Luka Doncic, .317
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, .281
3. James Harden, .262
4. LeBron James, .245

TS%

1. Luka Doncic, 63.2
2. James Harden, 62.4
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 61.1
4. LeBron James, 56.6

USG%

1. James Harden, 38.9
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 36.1
3. Luka Doncic, 35.7
4. LeBron James, 31.1

Luka is the clear front-runner right now. Giannis has been great on both ends. Harden has been scoring a lot, but his shooting splits are down across the board and he's got a negative DBPM, and only really is putting up crazy numbers because of his crazy usage rate, free throw rate, and three point shooting rate. He's great on offense, but my natural born Harden-hater bias in me has him last out of this bunch still. LeBron is putting up great numbers (below the other three guys), while playing a career low in minutes and having a near-career low USG rate right now. Defense is also way up for him so far as well.

I'd rank my MVP ballot as: 1) Doncic 2) Giannis 3) LeBron 4) Harden

It's also not even December yet.

 

[Derek]

PER

1. Luka Doncic, 33.3
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 32.0
3. James Harden, 30.1
4. LeBron James, 27.1

BPM

1. Luka Doncic, 14.2
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 12.3
3. James Harden, 9.8
4. LeBron James, 9.1

VORP

1. Luka Doncic, 2.2
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 1.9
3. James Harden, 1.9
4. LeBron James, 1.6

WS/48

1. Luka Doncic, .317
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, .281
3. James Harden, .262
4. LeBron James, .245

TS%

1. Luka Doncic, 63.2
2. James Harden, 62.4
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 61.1
4. LeBron James, 56.6

USG%

1. James Harden, 38.9
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 36.1
3. Luka Doncic, 35.7
4. LeBron James, 31.1

Luka is the clear front-runner right now. Giannis has been great on both ends. Harden has been scoring a lot, but his shooting splits are down across the board and he's got a negative DBPM, and only really is putting up crazy numbers because of his crazy usage rate, free throw rate, and three point shooting rate. He's great on offense, but my natural born Harden-hater bias in me has him last out of this bunch still. LeBron is putting up great numbers (below the other three guys), while playing a career low in minutes and having a near-career low USG rate right now. Defense is also way up for him so far as well.

I'd rank my MVP ballot as: 1) Doncic 2) Giannis 3) LeBron 4) Harden

It's also not even December yet.

How is LeBron 3rd when he was 4th in every category you posted?

 

[Stark]

How is LeBron 3rd when he was 4th in every category you posted?

Far better defense (we'll see how long he can keep that up) and playmaking than Harden this year, while also having roughly the same advanced analytical impact despite being far below Harden's usage rate (which helps bump up things like BPM, VORP) and also averaging 2.5 less MPG.

It's really, really close, but Harden has regressed this year (so far) and LBJ has been as good as he's been in a while.

 

[ACisKING]

PER

1. Luka Doncic, 33.3
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 32.0
3. James Harden, 30.1
4. LeBron James, 27.1

BPM

1. Luka Doncic, 14.2
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 12.3
3. James Harden, 9.8
4. LeBron James, 9.1

VORP

1. Luka Doncic, 2.2
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 1.9
3. James Harden, 1.9
4. LeBron James, 1.6

WS/48

1. Luka Doncic, .317
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, .281
3. James Harden, .262
4. LeBron James, .245

TS%

1. Luka Doncic, 63.2
2. James Harden, 62.4
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 61.1
4. LeBron James, 56.6

USG%

1. James Harden, 38.9
2. Giannis Antetokounmpo, 36.1
3. Luka Doncic, 35.7
4. LeBron James, 31.1

Luka is the clear front-runner right now. Giannis has been great on both ends. Harden has been scoring a lot, but his shooting splits are down across the board and he's got a negative DBPM, and only really is putting up crazy numbers because of his crazy usage rate, free throw rate, and three point shooting rate. He's great on offense, but my natural born Harden-hater bias in me has him last out of this bunch still. LeBron is putting up great numbers (below the other three guys), while playing a career low in minutes and having a near-career low USG rate right now. Defense is also way up for him so far as well.

I'd rank my MVP ballot as: 1) Doncic 2) Giannis 3) LeBron 4) Harden

It's also not even December yet.

Interesting stuff. Personally I would pick Giannis over Luka if I had to vote now. Just for defense alone. Like Giannis has a case to be defensive player of the year. Giannis wrecks opposing offensive game plans in ways I’m not entirely sure statistics can demonstrate. And he’s still putting up those numbers on offense. Luka is average at best on defense. I also think Giannis will wind up with a lot more wins, and aside from the Westbrook one-of, a top 2 in conference record is basically a prerequisite to winning the award.

 

[ACisKING]

Remaining Strength of Schedule (based on tankathon’s daily rankings) for teams with MVP candidates - Bucks have second easiest remaining SOS, Rockets have sixth easiest, Lakers have 11th easiest remaining SOS, but Mavs have 6th HARDEST remaining SOS.

 

[Jstock12]

I'm not following the Lakers too much. Are LeBron's 3PT closeouts still as good as they used to be?

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[Nathan S]

LeBron's on/off numbers this year are nuts. Lakers fully 20 points per 100 possessions better on offense with LeBron on the court. No other player on that team has a remotely similar differential. Less evidence that he's having a huge defensive impact, but he certainly trumps Doncic and Harden on that end nonetheless. I'd have it Giannis and LeBron 1/2 in either order, then Doncic, Harden, Kawhi, and Towns in the next tier.

 

[Rich]

Kawhi really gives pause for "Best Player" debate.

Can someone, for instance, be the Best Player if they take off 25 games a year and save themselves for the playoffs?

If LeBron did that, or Harden, would they be more effective in the post-season and thus every bit as good if not better than Kawhi?

 

[ACisKING]

Kawhi really gives pause for "Best Player" debate.

Can someone, for instance, be the Best Player if they take off 25 games a year and save themselves for the playoffs?

If LeBron did that, or Harden, would they be more effective in the post-season and thus every bit as good if not better than Kawhi?

I still feel like playoff performance is what we should ultimately measure these guys on. That’s why I kind of don’t regard Harden as highly as some do. So I’m fine with saying Kawhi is the best if he’s the best in the playoffs.

 

[Rich]

Man....I feel like I'm gonna always be pissed about the Kyrie trade that didn't happen with the Bucks. Because Brogdon would look so damn good right now on this team.

 

[Dshuks]

I'm really impressed with how much depth the Raptors have this season, their scouting ability is nuts with the talents they get late in the draft. RHJ was a very good pick up for their bench as well.