2021 NBA Offseason Thread

[Cavsbro]

Kawhi is not gonna lose to the Lakers in a 7 game series

lol

 

[The Oi]

Look, people can talk about the issues the 2008-2009 Cavs had, but luck matters. And Michael Pietrus and Rafer Alston not missing for a series was simply bad fucking luck. The end.

dont forget dwight howard making the shit out of free throws.

That was still a very difficult matchup for the Cavs. They had to have a lot more breaks go their way than the Magic did.

Edit: @Pioneer10 beat me to it

I agree with you going after shaq instead of adding a defender like Sheed who could handle Dwight one on one was stupid.

However, it doesn't change that having only elite player and your second best player being Delonte West is not conducive to surviving some roleplayers doing better then their average. Both Pietrus and Alston averaged less then 10 ppg for the series: you've got a problem if you can't survive that.

 

[Man Called X]

dont forget dwight howard making the shit out of free throws.

That was still a very difficult matchup for the Cavs. They had to have a lot more breaks go their way than the Magic did.

Edit: @Pioneer10 beat me to it

I still say that if Yao doesn't break Ben Wallace's fucking leg earlier in the season. We win that series easily.

 

[The Oi]

I still say that if Yao doesn't break Ben Wallace's fucking leg earlier in the season. We win that series easily.

Ran into Yao and Tracy McGrady in person in 2006 at some high end restaurant in Dallas. Cant remember what it was.

It was literally laughable to see a man of that size. He is absurdly large in person. Dwarfed McGrady.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Ran into Yao and Tracy McGrady in person in 2006 at some high end restaurant in Dallas. Cant remember what it was.

It was literally laughable to see a man of that size. He is absurdly large in person. Dwarfed McGrady.

Did you suck his peepee since you were already standing up ?

 

[Joe Charboneau]

The narrative that the Lakers are a superteam is really amusing. All summer everyone laughed at Rob Pelinka, Lakers missing out on kawhi, Lakers overpaying for AD, Lakers hiring Vogel, etc. And now faced with the possibility that they might actually be good, the response is to either trivialize their competition or to paint the Lakers as some sort of stacked superteam.

The Lakers are far from a superteam and even further from the sort of inevitable champion posters in this thread have implied them to be. They have obvious weaknesses. Their roster lacks playmakers and wing defenders. They have two guys on the entire team capable of dribbling the ball past half court without turning it over against any kind of pressure - one of them is LeBron, who the Lakers need to do so many other things as well, and the other is Rondo, who ruins their defense. They have nobody to guard the Giannis, Kawhi, PG types unless they use LeBron or AD on them, which is a tough ask given their offensive burdens. They are of course still capable of winning it all. But only if their best two players play really well in the playoffs. And if a lot of things break their way (health, Kuzma becoming a reliable third scorer, AD actually being willing to play the five which he has barely done this season, Rondo’s miraculous good shooting continuing, etc). And even then the Clippers will be a tough out in a seven game series.

This isn’t like the Warriors with KD where Curry or Durant could suck for a game, and they would still win. If LeBron doesn’t play well, the Lakers will absolutely lose - same with AD. When the Warriors had Durant they were Vegas favorites to win over the entire field combined. On the other hand, the Lakers are not even the clear favorites, and anyone would be wise to take the field over them. Their best players are going to have to carry them through four rounds of the playoffs; they will have to beat multiple 50 plus win western conference teams just to make the Finals. It won’t be easy for them to win it all. I still suspect they ultimately won’t. If they do, it will be well-earned by LeBron and AD.

I dont know man. They are 21-3 and they are murdering teams now. Has their schedule been weakish, yeah, but 21-3 is no easy task. And saying Lebron/AD will have to carry the Lakers, you can say that about all the teams and their superstars. Giannis will have to carry the Bucks and George/ Kawhi will have to carry the Clippers. And i am not counting on Lebron or Davis to have too many bad games especially when it matters. Davis right now is playing on another level. Look, i hope i am dead wrong about the Lakers. Nothing would make me happier then to see them fail. As of right now, they look like the team to beat to me. Just my opinion.

 

[The Oi]

Did you suck his peepee since you were already standing up ?

yeah. It was about the size of a large boneless chicken wing.

so large for a boneless chicken wing but small for a 7’6 behemoth of a man.

 

[Cavatt]

I dont know man. They are 21-3 and they are murdering teams now. Has their schedule been weakish, yeah, but 21-3 is no easy task. And saying Lebron/AD will have to carry the Lakers, you can say that about all the teams and their superstars. Giannis will have to carry the Bucks and George/ Kawhi will have to carry the Clippers. And i am not counting on Lebron or Davis to have too many bad games especially when it matters. Davis right now is playing on another level. Look, i hope i am dead wrong about the Lakers. Nothing would make me happier then to see them fail. As of right now, they look like the team to beat to me. Just my opinion.

I have a lot more respect for Vogel right now. He has made that team very respectable defensively in a short amount of time. It's pretty obvious now that Walton does sort of suck.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

I have a lot more respect for Vogel right now. He has made that team very respectable defensively in a short amount of time. It's pretty obvious now that Walton does sort of suck.

While Walton may suck and Vogel has done a great job with that team, it's a pretty disingenuous correlation when the rosters aren't remotely similar.

 

[Cavatt]

While Walton may suck and Vogel has done a great job with that team, it's a pretty disingenuous correlation when the rosters aren't remotely similar.

That's not the only data. The Kings have had a major slide in defense this year compared to last. Also, the Lakers were ok defensively last year, but have really stepped it up. You also can't ignore Vogel's success in Indiana. I am looking at the whole hear.

I don't think the roster deserves no credit, but getting guys to play like that so early in the season with a new roster, I think the coach deserves some credit. I mean Lebron is objectively playing better d than he has in years.

It really makes me wonder if Lebron resting so much on defense wasn't because he is getting help in return. Meaning he will play D if his team has his back, but when they are turnstiles, he is not going to kill himself to make up for it if he can rest until the playoffs.

 

[cavsfever]

The narrative that the Lakers are a superteam is really amusing. All summer everyone laughed at Rob Pelinka, Lakers missing out on kawhi, Lakers overpaying for AD, Lakers hiring Vogel, etc. And now faced with the possibility that they might actually be good, the response is to either trivialize their competition or to paint the Lakers as some sort of stacked superteam.

The Lakers are far from a superteam and even further from the sort of inevitable champion posters in this thread have implied them to be. They have obvious weaknesses. Their roster lacks playmakers and wing defenders. They have two guys on the entire team capable of dribbling the ball past half court without turning it over against any kind of pressure - one of them is LeBron, who the Lakers need to do so many other things as well, and the other is Rondo, who ruins their defense. They have nobody to guard the Giannis, Kawhi, PG types unless they use LeBron or AD on them, which is a tough ask given their offensive burdens. They are of course still capable of winning it all. But only if their best two players play really well in the playoffs. And if a lot of things break their way (health, Kuzma becoming a reliable third scorer, AD actually being willing to play the five which he has barely done this season, Rondo’s miraculous good shooting continuing, etc). And even then the Clippers will be a tough out in a seven game series.

This isn’t like the Warriors with KD where Curry or Durant could suck for a game, and they would still win. If LeBron doesn’t play well, the Lakers will absolutely lose - same with AD. When the Warriors had Durant they were Vegas favorites to win over the entire field combined. On the other hand, the Lakers are not even the clear favorites, and anyone would be wise to take the field over them. Their best players are going to have to carry them through four rounds of the playoffs; they will have to beat multiple 50 plus win western conference teams just to make the Finals. It won’t be easy for them to win it all. I still suspect they ultimately won’t. If they do, it will be well-earned by LeBron and AD.

Great post. I'll admit I underestimated the Lakers quite a bit before the season started for all the reasons you describe. They just have a very thin roster after their Big Two, and one of their superstars is old and the other is injury prone. If AD is hurt they are toast, full stop. Their lack of large wing defenders is a glaring weakness when you consider how much they rely on Lebron on offense (meaning he cannot guard the other team's best wing with max effort) and the fact that they will be up against Kawhi and PGIII. Then they also don't have any guys who can create their own shot without Lebron and/or AD on the floor. Anyway, you summed it all up very well.

Nevertheless, they are 21-3, and they have put that record together despite some injury issues with semi-important players, like Kuzma, Rondo, and Avery Bradley (key defender). The biggest surprise is their overall team defense. Just looking at their complete roster you had to think they would be at best an average defensive team, and an actively bad one when AD was resting. Huge credit to Vogel on that. Also, to their big positive surprises on the personnel front -- Dwight Howard and Caruso. I really underestimated how effective the Lebron + AD team with some savvy role players and a good coach would be.

It's a long season. My guess is that they will really need to rest AD and Lebron at some point prior to the playoffs. Right now Lebron is 4th in the league in total minutes played and AD is 12th in the league. AD is also 2nd among frontcourt players in total minutes played, with the first being Pascal Siakam who arguably is not really a frontcourt player in the same way AD is. It seems to me the Lakers are playing with fire working those two so hard, but they have no one else on the roster to take the pressure off.

 

[MediumBaller]

Great post. I'll admit I underestimated the Lakers quite a bit before the season started for all the reasons you describe. They just have a very thin roster after their Big Two, and one of their superstars is old and the other is injury prone. If AD is hurt they are toast, full stop. Their lack of large wing defenders is a glaring weakness when you consider how much they rely on Lebron on offense (meaning he cannot guard the other team's best wing with max effort) and the fact that they will be up against Kawhi and PGIII. Then they also don't have any guys who can create their own shot without Lebron and/or AD on the floor. Anyway, you summed it all up very well.

Nevertheless, they are 21-3, and they have put that record together despite some injury issues with semi-important players, like Kuzma, Rondo, and Avery Bradley (key defender). The biggest surprise is their overall team defense. Just looking at their complete roster you had to think they would be at best an average defensive team, and an actively bad one when AD was resting. Huge credit to Vogel on that. Also, to their big positive surprises on the personnel front -- Dwight Howard and Caruso. I really underestimated how effective the Lebron + AD team with some savvy role players and a good coach would be.

It's a long season. My guess is that they will really need to rest AD and Lebron at some point prior to the playoffs. Right now Lebron is 4th in the league in total minutes played and AD is 12th in the league. AD is also 2nd among frontcourt players in total minutes played, with the first being Pascal Siakam who arguably is not really a frontcourt player in the same way AD is. It seems to me the Lakers are playing with fire working those two so hard, but they have no one else on the roster to take the pressure off.

LeBron is averaging a career low 34.4 mpg. AD is also averaging 34.4 mpg, lower than 5 of the past 6 seasons. They really haven't been working those two hard at all.

 

[cavsfever]

That's one perspective. But everyone is averaging less minutes than they used to. Also, you can't just look at MPG but at how many games they play. Like I said, Lebron is 4th in the league in total minutes, that's a lot for a 35 year old any way you cut it.

 

[MediumBaller]

That's one perspective. But everyone is averaging less minutes than they used to. Also, you can't just look at MPG but at how many games they play. Like I said, Lebron is 4th in the league in total minutes, that's a lot for a 35 year old any way you cut it.

Meh, only because we're in the load management era. 25 years ago people wouldn't have bat at eye at it. They definitely wouldn't have bat an eye at a 26 year old superstar playing 34 mpg. That would've been considered low. They're piling up wins right now so they can rest guys later in January/February. They only have to go 35-24 the rest of the season to get to 55 wins, which no one was projecting for them at the start of the year.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Their lack of large wing defenders is a glaring weakness when you consider how much they rely on Lebron on offense (meaning he cannot guard the other team's best wing with max effort) and the fact that they will be up against Kawhi and PGIII.

Seeing how they handle Kuzma is the biggest thing for me as the season progresses; do they sit back and hope he becomes that consistent 3rd scorer, or do they say fuck waiting and try trading him for an effective defender? The problem is making salaries work, and I don't know who they could target. And whether you're high on him or not, having Kuzma for 1.8 million is a luxury.

Iggy is the big prize, and if the rumors of him coming to LA after being bought out are true, then they're pretty much set. But Memphis is adamant that they won't do that, and you have to think that some playoff-bound time with the assets to make it work would swing for a trade (a la Toronto last year with Gasol.)

And as far as secondary shot creators go, Rondo has been great for them this year (and is also currently 5th in the league in 3 pt %, lol.)

LeBron and Klutch did most of the heavy lifting for Pelinka, but you have to give him credit with how he built the Lakers' roster, especially since it was a last-minute Plan B; the fit is pretty tremendous with everybody he scraped up.