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2021 NBA Offseason Thread

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Sir'Dom Pointer said:
Kevin Love regressed as a shooter while others git better, certainly will trend that way even more with positionless basketball
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Love has not regressed as a shooter. Even last season, struggling with injuries, he shot 36% from 3 and 90% from the line, and was the only player in the NBA to average 10 boards and 2 made 3's per game. He's certainly regressed in other areas, but he's still the best shooting big in the NBA.
 
Nathan S said:
Love has not regressed as a shooter. Even last season, struggling with injuries, he shot 36% from 3 and 90% from the line, and was the only player in the NBA to average 10 boards and 2 made 3's per game. He's certainly regressed in other areas, but he's still the best shooting big in the NBA.
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No, he isn't. Lol
 
Nathan S said:
In 2017-18, Love shot 41.5% from 3 on 5.6 attempts per game, and 88% from the line. I challenge you to find a better shooting season by a big man in NBA history.
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That season was an outlier. His other seasons in Cleveland he has shot 36.7%, 36%, 37.3% and 36.1%. He's still a good player, but not nearly as valuable as he was even 5 years ago. Now the NBA is full of stretch bigs.
 
MediumBaller said:
That season was an outlier. His other seasons in Cleveland he has shot 36.7%, 36%, 37.3% and 36.1%. He's still a good player, but not nearly as valuable as he was even 5 years ago. Now the NBA is full of stretch bigs.
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Well yeah it was an outlier, that's my point. It was arguably the best shooting season by a big in NBA history. The year before than, when he shot 37.3% from deep on 6.5 attempts, and 87.1% from the line? Perhaps merely a top-10 shooting season by a big in NBA history. What other big can produce at that level?
 
Nathan S said:
Well yeah it was an outlier, that's my point. It was arguably the best shooting season by a big in NBA history. The year before than, when he shot 37.3% from deep on 6.5 attempts, and 87.1% from the line? Perhaps merely a top-10 shooting season by a big in NBA history. What other big can produce at that level?
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Towns and Markkanen are the only two that come to mind in terms of producing as volume shooters as big men.
 
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Nathan S said:
Who's better? Make your case.
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We are talking about 3pt shooting. Not FT percentage.

I'm also incluing forwards that play the PF position because we are trending towards positionless basketball.

Here,
Kristaps Porzingis
Lauri Markannen
Harrison Barnes
Joe Ingles
Davis Bertans
Danillo Gallinari
Tobias Harris
Nikola Mirotic
Nemanja Bjelica
Luka Doncic



Yes, Nicolino Melli is also better. You will see this season.

You also have Marcus Morris nowadays. Karl Anthony Towns.

Just off the top of my head.

And there are more guys that match Love's percentages on slighly lesser volume because they play less minutes for example like Ersan Ilyasova, Luke Kornet. I consider both pretty equal to Love, Ersan more so. Ersan taes tougher shots too. Jamychal Green shoots better percentages on respectable amount of attempts, but I don't consider him a better shooter obviously.

I'll add P.J Washington and De'Andre Hunter as PFs that will become better shooters. Even Pascal Siakam.
 
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I will also give athletic guys that can put the ball on the floor and attack a close out and finish on a high percentage an edge. Love's gravity is limited to his man only. He is not a threat to take the ball to the basket, collapse the defense and find the open man or finish strong. His pump fakes are mostly about repositioning behidn the 3pt line. And ofcourse off the dribble shooting which Love just doesn't do.
 
inliner311 said:
The reason they don't want to pay Sabonis is because they found that he can't play next to Myles Turner. Both of them are best when they play center. They must feel confident in Goga as their backup center but Sabonis is good enough to start and will get paid to be a starter somewhere.

Love is a true stretch 4 that takes 6 3pt shots a game and even at 36% he is still above average. What makes Love valuable I think going forward is his ability to play inside and out. Pair that with a center like Myles Turner who can stretch out to the 3 point line and it makes it hard for teams to play a big wing at PF.

I actually thought Sabonis was shooting more 3s. He was down to .2 a game last season. He was shooting 2 a game his rookie season in OKC and I thought he at least kept that average when he went to the Pacers. That actually sways how I think he could fit with the Cavs. I don't think the current roster could handle taking away a good shooter like Love and bring in another big that doesn't stretch the floor.
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Myles Turner is perhaps the most fitting player to put next to Sabonis.
Sabonis as it stand right now is a tweener who can not protect the rim at all, and still can't shoot. Myles is a big who can shoot, defend the perimeter and one of the best rim protectors in the league.
So are we talking about maximizing Turner's value or SAbonis'? cause if the Pacers intentions are maximizing Turner's then perhaps they should get rid of Sabonis if you think Turner is that much better at the 5. Although Sabonis provides inside scoring that Turner does not. And if they do intend to play Turner at the 5 exclusively how does Goga fits in? he is also a 5.

I don't agree that Sabonis is best at Center tbh. He is more of a mismatch against 4's and he can't protect the rim, so he really needs a good rim protector that plays the 4, and even then it's not ideal.

Love can play inside out, but that does not mean he is efficient playing inside, cause at this point he isn't.

And i'm not advocating for the Cavs to trade for Sabonis, nor do I have anything against Love. I think he has regressed and is still a good influence and a good player that fits the team. I just think that Sabonis has greater value and the way the leagur is trending stretch 4's are becoming more and more common and as a result Love's value will continue to diminish. Love's value as an inside presence is insignicant. Especially so as a Center.
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
We are talking about 3pt shooting. Not FT percentage.

I'm also incluing forwards that play the PF position because we are trending towards positionless basketball.

Here,
Kristaps Porzingis
Lauri Markannen
Harrison Barnes
Joe Ingles
Davis Bertans
Danillo Gallinari
Tobias Harris
Nikola Mirotic
Nemanja Bjelica
Luka Doncic



Yes, Nicolino Melli is also better. You will see this season.

You also have Marcus Morris nowadays. Karl Anthony Towns.

Just off the top of my head.

And there are more guys that match Love's percentages on slighly lesser volume because they play less minutes for example like Ersan Ilyasova, Luke Kornet. I consider both pretty equal to Love, Ersan more so. Ersan taes tougher shots too. Jamychal Green shoots better percentages on respectable amount of attempts, but I don't consider him a better shooter obviously.

I'll add P.J Washington and De'Andre Hunter as PFs that will become better shooters. Even Pascal Siakam.
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I feel like you're missing my point about 3-point shooting volume here. It's easy to shoot a good percentage from 3 on a few attempts per game. What really adds value is shooting a good percentage at a high volume. Look at where Love stands among the highest volume 3-point shooters last year (can't embed images at the moment, so here's a link). The only bigs in the same neighborhood are Bertans (highly underrated player IMO), and Mirotic (whose NBA career is likely over). Maybe others will catch up in time, but they haven't yet. Put Love in a good offensive system, not the dumpster fire system we had on the Cavs last year, and he could have an enormous impact from the 3-point line.
 
Nathan S said:
In 2017-18, Love shot 41.5% from 3 on 5.6 attempts per game, and 88% from the line. I challenge you to find a better shooting season by a big man in NBA history.
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And there isn't a stretch big who rebounds like Kevin. There just aren't any
 
Sir'Dom Pointer said:
Myles Turner is perhaps the most fitting player to put next to Sabonis.
Sabonis as it stand right now is a tweener who can not protect the rim at all, and still can't shoot. Myles is a big who can shoot, defend the perimeter and one of the best rim protectors in the league.
So are we talking about maximizing Turner's value or SAbonis'? cause if the Pacers intentions are maximizing Turner's then perhaps they should get rid of Sabonis if you think Turner is that much better at the 5. Although Sabonis provides inside scoring that Turner does not. And if they do intend to play Turner at the 5 exclusively how does Goga fits in? he is also a 5.

I don't agree that Sabonis is best at Center tbh. He is more of a mismatch against 4's and he can't protect the rim, so he really needs a good rim protector that plays the 4, and even then it's not ideal.

Love can play inside out, but that does not mean he is efficient playing inside, cause at this point he isn't.

And i'm not advocating for the Cavs to trade for Sabonis, nor do I have anything against Love. I think he has regressed and is still a good influence and a good player that fits the team. I just think that Sabonis has greater value and the way the leagur is trending stretch 4's are becoming more and more common and as a result Love's value will continue to diminish. Love's value as an inside presence is insignicant. Especially so as a Center.
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The Pacers clearly are trying to maximize Turner at this point if they are looking to trade Sabonis. Sabonis and Turner just don't give the 3 point shooting that is necessary in today's NBA. The average 3 pt attempts league wide was 32 last year. Having two starters that attempt 2.6 and .2 just won't get it done in today's NBA. Turner who attempts 2.6 might get away playing with a stretch 5 if they want to play him at PF but I'm not sure there is a stretch 5 out there that puts enough attempts to make up for his low attempts.

I think they see Goga as their backup center and if he grows into more then they will cross that bridge when it comes. He is on a cheap rookie deal and they have years to figure out what to do with him and Turner. Sabonis is on the last year of his deal and the Pacers must expect him to get a big offer sheet.
 
inliner311 said:
I've thought that Love for either Sabonis or Miles Turner could make sense for both sides. The problem with Sabonis for Love is trying to match up salaries. The Pacers don't have salaries to match up without giving up other useful players.
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A trade for Sabonis/Love is basically impossible unless the Pacers include Oladipo... which im 100000% sure they wouldnt ;)
There is not chance they would be looking at trading Turner for Love imo... I would love Turner though
 
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