2021 NBA Offseason Thread

[Cavatt]

In terms of mindblowing stats, Harden (most PPG since Wilt!) and Doncic (most efficient offense in NBA history!) both join the conversation. But you can only have one MVP. Putting together team success, mindblowing stats, and the simple question of who's the best player when it comes down to it, it's LeBron>Giannis>>Others

You think Lebron is clearly better even with Giannis' per minute stats?

 

[Rich]

I get LeBron's on court impact is greater for his team.

That's the nature of a supremely great player on a not great roster.

I'd bet if LeBron was swapped out with Giannis they wouldn't be on pace to win 80 games or w/e it would project out too if you took LeBron's on/off and swapped them with Giannis.

The ceiling of at team is only so high.

But I guess my criteria is and always has been this: in a vaccuum, who is the best player and PLAYING like the best player.

In what way? If you needed to win a playoff series starting tomorrow and could pick one player to lead your team, you'd pick Giannis over LeBron? That's crazy to me.

Yes.

Think Giannis impacts the game defensively in a way LeBron no longer can.

 

[Nathan S]

You think Lebron is clearly better even with Giannis' per minute stats?

The best statistical estimates we have for per-minute impact (really per-possession impact, but similar enough) favor LeBron. And then LeBron's averaging significantly more minutes per game than Giannis, so that widens the gap further.

I get LeBron's on court impact is greater for his team.

That's the nature of a supremely great player on a not great roster.

I'd bet if LeBron was swapped out with Giannis they wouldn't be on pace to win 80 games or w/e it would project out too if you took LeBron's on/off and swapped them with Giannis.

The ceiling of at team is only so high.

But I guess my criteria is and always has been this: in a vaccuum, who is the best player and PLAYING like the best player.


Yes.

Think Giannis impacts the game defensively in a way LeBron no longer can.

It's true that Giannis impacts the game defensively in a way that LeBron can't, but LeBron impacts the game offensively in a way that Giannis can't. They're pretty dissimilar players in a lot of ways.

 

[Pioneer10]

It's like watching Magic all over again with the Lakers. Lebron didn't even bother to attack Tristan for most of the first half: basically tried to set up others over and over again even when he had obvious mismatches

 

[Nathan S]

It's like watching Magic all over again with the Lakers. Lebron didn't even bother to attack Tristan for most of the first half: basically tried to set up others over and over again even when he had obvious mismatches

Here's another fun stat: LeBron's averaging over 20 field goals + assists per game, joining Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Isiah Thomas, and Russell Westbrook (drastically less efficient than any of the others) as the only players in modern history to do so. He has a hand in almost half of all Laker buckets this season.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

I'm just fascinated by LeBron's career trajectory. He has a very realistic chance to:

- Set the all-time scoring record while placing top-3 in assists, with something like a 40/10/11k career statline.

- Be the first player to lead 3 different franchises to championships.

You add to that his 8 straight Finals, fairy tale hometown comeback which culminated in the abolition of the Cleveland curse, and being the clear-cut best player in the league for over a decade span...that's as strong and convincing an argument there is for GOAT.

I know a lot of people around here still resent the guy, but fuck it, I want to see it all unfold.

 

[Jstock12]

I'm just fascinated by LeBron's career trajectory. He has a very realistic chance to:

- Set the all-time scoring record while placing top-3 in assists, with something like a 40/10/11k career statline.

- Be the first player to lead 3 different franchises to championships.

You add to that his 8 straight Finals, fairy tale hometown comeback which culminated in the abolition of the Cleveland curse, and being the clear-cut best player in the league for over a decade span...that's as strong and convincing an argument there is for GOAT.

I know a lot of people around here still resent the guy, but fuck it, I want to see it all unfold.

Could also be the first father to play on the same team as his son. But it would only be possible if by that time Bronny isn't a good enough prospect to be selected in the first round. Either that, or LeBron would have to go to the team that drafted his boy.

 

[cavsfever]

In terms of mindblowing stats, Harden (most PPG since Wilt!) and Doncic (most efficient offense in NBA history!) both join the conversation. But you can only have one MVP. Putting together team success, mindblowing stats, and the simple question of who's the best player when it comes down to it, it's LeBron>Giannis>>Others

Yes, but my point is that the question of who is the best player CAN'T be allowed to be an important MVP factor, because it leads to Not Spreading the Love. The NBA often has a pretty clear-cut one or two best players for like a decade at a time (most recently Lebron, who has been the best player in the league since like 2008), so if you start asking questions like "who is the best player" then the MVP trophy won't move around enough and there won't be enough love given to all the other guys the NBA wants to annoint as super-duperstars.

 

[Rich]

FWIW my criteria is simply who I think is playing the best basketball in that particular season.

Granted, that also lines up with thinking Giannis is simply the very best player, and the player I'd choose to go win a playoff series with.

 

[Pioneer10]

I'm just fascinated by LeBron's career trajectory. He has a very realistic chance to:

- Set the all-time scoring record while placing top-3 in assists, with something like a 40/10/11k career statline.

- Be the first player to lead 3 different franchises to championships.

You add to that his 8 straight Finals, fairy tale hometown comeback which culminated in the abolition of the Cleveland curse, and being the clear-cut best player in the league for over a decade span...that's as strong and convincing an argument there is for GOAT.

I know a lot of people around here still resent the guy, but fuck it, I want to see it all unfold.

Really pissed watching the Lakers that we never had a great finisher paired with him. One above the rim big man and it's more lob city then the Chris Paul/Griffin teams.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Really pissed watching the Lakers that we never had a great finisher paired with him. One above the rim big man and it's more lob city then the Chris Paul/Griffin teams.

I really want to see what LeBron and AD can do together in the postseason; that duo dicking of the Warriors in '16 with Kyrie was historic.

Basketball fans all over should lament the premature dissolution of that tandem.

 

[cavsfever]

Really pissed watching the Lakers that we never had a great finisher paired with him. One above the rim big man and it's more lob city then the Chris Paul/Griffin teams.

We could totally have had Dwight Howard. Not sure he was ready to straighten up and fly right but Daddy Lebron probably could have managed him.

 

[Pioneer10]

Ja is so fun. Wish we had him

 

[ACisKING]

I really want to see what LeBron and AD can do together in the postseason; that duo dicking of the Warriors in '16 with Kyrie was historic.

Basketball fans all over should lament the premature dissolution of that tandem.

in my opinion the only way they are actually going to win it all though is if AD is willing to play the five in the playoffs for way more minutes than he is right now. When he’s at the four with a traditional big, the lane is just too clogged for LeBron to drive and AD is relegated to being a spot up shooter (he can do that bur it’s not one of his strengths). Teams also just switch the pick and rolls between LBJ and AD and the presence of a conventional five in the paint limits both their abilities to punish the switch.

When AD is at the five, he is able to take full advantage of being perhaps the best roll man in the league and one of the best of all time. And he has space in the paint to punish switches. Plus because AD is such a beast on defense, they don’t sacrifice anything on that end and frankly become ever scarier with the ability to switch. But they’ve barely gone to those lineups this season - usually only at the end of close games. It remains to be seen if that’s just to preserve AD or if that’s some sort of flawed Vogel strategy since he’s basically always used two conventional bigs.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

^I think it's fairly obvious that AD at the 5 is the Lakers' ace in the hole; they seldom use it both to preserve AD and to keep a lid on its effectiveness. I think they'll use the conventional 5 approach until the latter stages of the playoffs, where they'll unleash it on some of the more formidable competition.

For all the criticism he's gotten here and elsewhere, Pelinka committed larcency by signing Howard for practically nothing. His resurgence has been one of the best stories of the league this year, and he's a major component to the Lakers' elite defense. The tandem of him and McGee have ensured that they have an elite rim protector at all times and ideal lob target for LeBron. That's a perfect formula for regular season success, as well as minimizing wear and tear on AD.

I don't like that Clippers match-up, but the Lakers are right there....1 or 2 pieces will put them over the top.