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2019 Draft, Pick #30 - Kevin Porter Jr., USC

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Wasnt a hasty decision, they were trying to save a kids life, looks like they might of ended up saving 2 lives because of the trade. Houston was the target because of John Lucas. They thought they could handle the mental illness issues because of Love, they couldnt get through, the kid needed a life boat and John Lucas is the best at that.

It was not a basketball decision. If you dont want to understand this, that is fine, but you cant understand the move without realizing there was so much more going on that never made it out to the media and they LOVED his talent and were trying to do right by the kid and save him from killing himself in one way or another.

We really need to move on, but I know we wont.

As a bigger picture thing, the Cavs as an organization need to realize bad things can happen and they should have plans for it in place. Good decision making isn't being super optimistic about every situation. It's about plan for bad things that can happen and being ready with solutions. This goes beyond KPJ. The Cavs seems to get caught off guard whenever something bad comes up like they didn't expect it.

Like they should already have a plan in place for when the relationship with Love becomes toxic.
 
As a bigger picture thing, the Cavs as an organization need to realize bad things can happen and they should have plans for it in place. Good decision making isn't being super optimistic about every situation. It's about plan for bad things that can happen and being ready with solutions. This goes beyond KPJ. The Cavs seems to get caught off guard whenever something bad comes up like they didn't expect it.

Like they should already have a plan in place for when the relationship with Love becomes toxic.

I get what you're saying and agree 100%

Having plans in place to mitigate disaster is a sign of a stable organization. Today, everyone on my companies payroll got paid and I processed it like Tuesday or Wednesday. If there had been something wrong with my payroll processor or if the money suddenly wasn't there or whatever, I already have like 2 payroll mitigation alternatives in place and at the ready and would have guaranteed no family went hungry on the same day that their DD didn't hit for whatever reason.

Too often, on the basketball side of things it seems we are flying by the seat of our pants and need to scramble once our best laid plans dont bear fruit.

If that disaster is a player/coaching staff issue, that falls on the GM.
 
As a bigger picture thing, the Cavs as an organization need to realize bad things can happen and they should have plans for it in place. Good decision making isn't being super optimistic about every situation. It's about plan for bad things that can happen and being ready with solutions. This goes beyond KPJ. The Cavs seems to get caught off guard whenever something bad comes up like they didn't expect it.

Like they should already have a plan in place for when the relationship with Love becomes toxic.
Seems to me their plan has been to take low cost risks on talented guys with baggage and see if they can make it work. The contingency being don't make a long term commitment to these types of guys until you're sure it will work (excluding Love, I think this is a different matter all together). If it's obvious it's not going to work, then cut bait.

Maybe Altman is learning that these types of risks aren't really worth it since it seems you can't rely on these types of personalities during the early stages of a rebuild. Plus, he keeps getting crucified when he doesn't get value for these guys when he cuts bait.

I'm still not really mad at Koby, I'm a little upset he couldn't get better compensation in exchange for KPJ, but I'm not mad at him for taking the risk. Probably could have handled this a lot better but I bet this was any extremely difficult situation for him to navigate and I'm guessing he learned a lot from it. It helps to remember that Altman is a young executive and is really learning on the fly.

I personally think he's got a great eye for talent and I think the Cavs should hold onto him. He's learned some really valuable lessons early in his career. If he learns from his mistakes, he'll probably end up having a pretty successful career as an GM/Front Office Executive.
 
Seems to me their plan has been to take low cost risks on talented guys with baggage and see if they can make it work. The contingency being don't make a long term commitment to these types of guys until you're sure it will work (excluding Love, I think this is a different matter all together). If it's obvious it's not going to work, then cut bait.

Maybe Altman is learning that these types of risks aren't really worth it since it seems you can't rely on these types of personalities during the early stages of a rebuild. Plus, he keeps getting crucified when he doesn't get value for these guys when he cuts bait.

I'm still not really mad at Koby, I'm a little upset he couldn't get better compensation in exchange for KPJ, but I'm not mad at him for taking the risk. Probably could have handled this a lot better but I bet this was any extremely difficult situation for him to navigate and I'm guessing he learned a lot from it. It helps to remember that Altman is a young executive and is really learning on the fly.

I personally think he's got a great eye for talent and I think the Cavs should hold onto him. He's learned some really valuable lessons early in his career. If he learns from his mistakes, he'll probably end up having a pretty successful career as an GM/Front Office Executive.

I wonder how much of his eye for talent is Gansey and Weems, personally

It is definitely one of the strengths of the Altman regime, though
 
Looking back at the career of Joey Albert Belle , nothing Porter JR did here in his brief stay in Cleveland can compare to all the antics Belle did in both his minor league career and with the Tribe yet the Team never gave up on him. Altman will be remembered as a modern day Frank the Trader Layne who made the ill fated Rocky Colavito deal. 5 years from now The Porter deal will have a similar effect
 
Looking back at the career of Joey Albert Belle , nothing Porter JR did here in his brief stay in Cleveland can compare to all the antics Belle did in both his minor league career and with the Tribe yet the Team never gave up on him. Altman will be remembered as a modern day Frank the Trader Layne who made the ill fated Rocky Colavito deal. 5 years from now The Porter deal will have a similar effect
The Indians dumped Milton Bradley.
 
Looking back at the career of Joey Albert Belle , nothing Porter JR did here in his brief stay in Cleveland can compare to all the antics Belle did in both his minor league career and with the Tribe yet the Team never gave up on him.

I'm going to preface this by saying my starting point is that everything we've been told here about the Cavs and KPJ is factual. So starting from there....

Belle did whatever he was told to do after one of his incidents to get back in the good graces of the league/organization. So if he was told to go to anger management -- which happened more than once -- he went. And that was his pattern: screw up, accept his punishment/mandatory counseling, and return.

That's exactly what KPJ refused to do. Every time he'd fuck up, the Cavs would give him something he was supposed to do, like anger management classes, which is typical around the league. KPJ simply refused do any of it. When Cavs coaches, FO, and players all tried to contact the guy at home to get him involved in some activities even before he screwed up, he just kept saying "no". The Cavs could have had the best support system in the league set up, but if KPJ refuses to meet with anyone, it's worthless.

It's pretty apparent that KPJ refused to accept any accountability/responsibility for his actions in the off-season, and likewise refused to accept help that was offered. And because this was all happening in the offseason, simply imposing a suspension wasn't going to cut it because there weren't any games being played anyway. It was just blatant defiance for which he refused to accept any responsibility. And whatever else he he was doing in terms of his interactions with the team and/or offseason conduct that we didn't hear about, it apparently was bad enough that other players wanted him gone.

So why did it work in Houston? Well, one answer could be "they had a better support system there". Of course, he apparently did more or less fine with whatever support system the Cavs had in the 19-20 season, so I think it's unfair to assume the Cavs' support system was flawed.

I think it's more simple than just looking at the support system, though. Because he was going to a new team that was going to give him a "fresh start", Houston didn't ever hold him accountable for his offseason misconduct, and that was exactly what he'd wanted all along. Do what he wants, not be held accountable, then just play the game. He couldn't do that with the Cavs because he'd done it all on their watch, and they had to hold him accountable. The Rockets didn't so....he won. He wanted to engage in unacceptable behavior without any team consequences, and that's what he got.

I suppose the Cavs could have tried the approach of just letting him get away with all of it, and not holding him accountable at all. Let him mouth off to coaches, or FO guys, or whomever, and just ignore it because of his talent. If that would have been the cost of keeping KPJ, then I'm glad we didn't.
 
He acted out and they essentially got him to a place with more playing time where he can start. Same with Drummond. Seems like all you have to do is act up and the Cavs will give you whatever you want while claiming there is accountability up and down the line.
 
He acted out and they essentially got him to a place with more playing time where he can start. Same with Drummond. Seems like all you have to do is act up and the Cavs will give you whatever you want while claiming there is accountability up and down the line.
Drummond didn’t act out to get more playing or to a place he wanted to go. The Cavs “wanted” to move away from Dre due to wanting to commit to Allen. As for Porter the Cavs FO wasn’t equipped to deal with him and didn’t have a presence in the locker or FO that could relate to him! A complete failure (not blame) by the Cavs organization.
 
Drummond didn’t act out to get more playing or to a place he wanted to go. The Cavs “wanted” to move away from Dre due to wanting to commit to Allen. As for Porter the Cavs FO wasn’t equipped to deal with him and didn’t have a presence in the locker or FO that could relate to him! A complete failure (not blame) by the Cavs organization.

I heard he didn't show up for practices and acted like a baby when he didn't get enough shots. He refused to come off the bench when Allen repeatedly outplayed him. Is that not true?
 
I fear this could be one of those dark stories. Like one day he just ODs or even whacks himself. Some strange stuff posted by him on social media etc... hope he doesn’t go there of course and turns it truly around (outside the court).
 
A lot of angst for a guy with right now has a PER in the 12 range
 
A lot of angst for a guy with right now has a PER in the 12 range

He has a ton of talent and is just learning, so while i understand why we did it, not the take i take personally.

Honestly, KPJ might have had to be traded or cut no matter who drafted him first. Some people dont learn the lessons the first or even 2nd time.
 
He has a ton of talent and is just learning, so while i understand why we did it, not the take i take personally.

Honestly, KPJ might have had to be traded or cut no matter who drafted him first. Some people dont learn the lessons the first or even 2nd time.
That is excuse making. Bad is bad. Its ok the guy may never make it. Most don't.
 

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