2019 Draft, Pick #30 - Kevin Porter Jr., USC

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Just wanted to comment on this as I heard nance Jr on the Locked On Cavs podcast and he had lots to say about this lineup. He said it was born of necessity because of the injuries to KPJ and Exum. Bickerstafff wanted to try it and it did well in practice and felt fine. He said they were sort of grasping at straws in Washington that game, but it paid off so they continued to go to it the rest of the time.

The interesting thing to me was that I thought it looked like Nance was playing the 3 on defense, but the 4 on offense. He confirmed that in the interview and said it was actually Love playing the 3 in the offense. That looked to be true because Nance simply played the stretch 4 on offense and spotted up a bit, while Love was playing exclusively on the perimeter and was even the ball handler in the pick n roll with both Nance and TT. Pretty interesting.

On the other side, Nance guarded the perimeter better, which we all sort of knew because he is better switching on the perimeter than protecting the basket, and he has guarded guys like Giannis and Kawai at times because Cedi is too weak.
That lineup did really well and I think that's the starting lineup they should go with next year.

The Nance-Love-Drummond combination played eight games, averaging almost eight minutes on the floor. They averaged 20.5 points and 8.5 rebounds, along with a +/- of 6.3. - Kelsey Russo, 3/27/20

That +6.3 in 8 minutes equates to a +25 in 32 minutes. That's the lineup they should go with next year, IMO.

So that leaves Garland, Windler, Cedi, Thompson (if they sign him), the first round pick, and maybe Exum coming off the bench. They would have to mix and match because you would never want an undersized front line of TT, Cedi, and Windler, but with Nance being able to swing between PF and SF that shouldn’t be a problem.
 

Cavatt

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That lineup did really well and I think that's the starting lineup they should go with next year.

The Nance-Love-Drummond combination played eight games, averaging almost eight minutes on the floor. They averaged 20.5 points and 8.5 rebounds, along with a +/- of 6.3. - Kelsey Russo, 3/27/20

That +6.3 in 8 minutes equates to a +25 in 32 minutes. That's the lineup they should go with next year, IMO.

So that leaves Garland, Windler, Cedi, Thompson (if they sign him), the first round pick, and maybe Exum coming off the bench. They would have to mix and match because you would never want an undersized front line of TT, Cedi, and Windler, but with Nance being able to swing between PF and SF that shouldn’t be a problem.
Dean Wade is restricted. I would sign him even if they draft a pf. He can shoot and rebound and Nance nor Love are Iron man.
 

cabs

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Dean Wade is restricted. I would sign him even if they draft a pf. He can shoot and rebound and Nance nor Love are Iron man.
Wade has impressed in his limited playing time. Hopefully he has a strong summer league, if there is one
 

Cavatt

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Wade has impressed in his limited playing time. Hopefully he has a strong summer league, if there is one
Yeah hard to imagine what Summer League would look like. These fringe guys are going to be hit hardest by this. They won't get a chance to prove themselves. Cavs have been accused of hiding him. Let's hope they were trying to keep other teams from getting interested instead of just being incompetent.
 

cabs

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Him and Sexton seem the loyal type.. yet Kyrie appeared to in his first few seasons too for memory so it may not mean much
 

Man Called X

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Him and Sexton seem the loyal type.. yet Kyrie appeared to in his first few seasons too for memory so it may not mean much
Kyrie was a drama queen from day one. He wasn't so much loyal as he was considered the face of the franchise from day 1 and it went to his head. He came in with his crew *daddy* making demands and it hasn't stopped. During his first contract, he had a pretty good PR team, but I'm pretty sure they got canned after his 2nd contract, and that's when all the flat earth ridiculousness started.
 

Cavatt

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Him and Sexton seem the loyal type.. yet Kyrie appeared to in his first few seasons too for memory so it may not mean much
There were rumblings right away that Kyrie didn't like Cleveland. More after Mike Brown was hired. Still, he signed that extension.

I really liked that short stretch where Sexton and KPJ were starting because they had some chemistry and were high fiving a lot and celebrating. Didn't see that much from Darius.

I have been rewatching some of the games, and if you want a good KPJ game or at least quarter it was the first quarter in the Utah game like 5 or 6 days before they shut it down. He was everywhere defensively, and scored 7 points very easily. I think that was his best quarter this year.

The Miami game where he went off is pretty dubious. Like I am glad it happened and it was fun, but it was flukey and he hit some really tough shots. The first quarter of the Utah game, KPJ is hounding guys and getting his hands on everything. He is taking it to the rack and coolly hits the open shots. He looks like a wily vet and also flashes his playmaking. It was a really nice glimpse of what he could become.

I keep seeing iguadala, hopefully with better shooting. A wing who plays bigger than he is, has a great handle, harassing defense and can almost play pg because of his sneaky playmaking.

The wild thing is that I think everybody including probably the Cavs did not expect KPJ to be so focused and to adapt seemingly so easily to the pro game. I think everybody thought he would be a major project where it was tough for him to find a role and not try to be a star too fast. Instead he played largely within himself, but overall I was pretty happy that he wasn't just jacking terrible shots, and tryin to do too much.
 

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People were asking whether KPJ or Barrett was the better player and who would have the better career. I lloked ta their numbers and wrote this.

I am a little surprised by everyone in this thread. It's ok to like Barrett, but the numbers are just not on his side. If you look at advanced or even just per36 numbers, KPJ is clearly better, and seems to have fewer holes in his game overall. Rj Barrett does have an edge on him in rebounds to the tune of .9 more rebounds per game. Some totals are slightly better, but none hold up on a per minute basis.

The thing that he is supposed to be good at, passing, he doesn't even average more assists per minute. I would even venture that if you saw KPJ's playmaking this season, you wouldn't be very confident that Barrett can make passes with the touch that KPJ can, because he can't.

So, he is a worse shooter by far, not by a little. His 2pt% is 43% to KPJ's 50%. That isn't a small difference. His 3pt shot is 32% which is ok for a center, but not a wing or guard. Kpj's is very close, but he got better as the year went on and was pulling from deep late in the season, when he was very reluctant in oct. FT% is not in Barret's favor and I don't think he becomes much better of a shooter as time goes by. KPJ showed his Barrett like FT% in college was the fluke and not the 3pt%. KPJ shot over 40 from the corners and his 3pt % got better every month. Shot under 20% from 3 his first month and after Christmas never shot under 40% for from 3.

https://usatrookiewire.files.wordpr...hot-2020-02-21-at-4.04.15-pm.png?w=1000&h=145

Overall, I would say Barrett's numbers are very troubling. He is closer to being a bust than an allstar right now. KPJ instead of a trouble maker being out of the league, has solidified himself as a bonafide guy with potential who is an NBA player. Right now Barrett is fighting to live up to expectations and failing, and Porter has silenced the haters.

Also, anybody who thinks Porter is just coasting on coming off the bench, he played better the more minutes he was given and when garland went down at the end of the year, he played great as a starter and showed chemistry with Sexton.

I agree that Barrett was not put in the best postion, but KPJ was on a team with a worse record and was not allowed to have the ball in his hands as much and he put together a very promising rookie season, better than Darius Garland and Barrett both.

Porter Jr is better now, has better tools, is a better ballhandler, is a better passer, is a better shooter, has better footwork, finishes around the rim better(supposed to be Barretts strength but he shoots 56% while Porter shoots 71% and is elite there), is a better athlete, and has pretty much better all around stats. Defense seems to be really similar between the 2, but Porter has the better net rating due to better offense.

I think the OP has asked the right question because Barrett was scrutinized while Porter Jr's season flew under the radar just pleasantly surprising most people who cared to check. I just think it is obvious who is the better prospect right now, and I don't see any indicators that that will change anytime soon as Porter proved a lot this year, and Barrett has the same question marks he did coming in answering nothing.

The worst for me is Barrett's passing though. Point Forward was his thing and he averaged fewer assists than Collin Sexton in his rookie year. He isn't a point forward and his tunnel vision is bad. He cannot be such a bad shooter and a bad passer. Being a playmaking maestro is the only thing that can save him if his shooting is this poor going forward. he's at best a secondary playmaker I think.

This was the article I got KPJ's month by month 3pt% on. Good analysis.


KPJ has a long way to go, but what we have seen is promising. My biggest question about him is his durability as he has already had some troubling issues.

One thing I was shocked at when I saw. He is finishing at the basket at 71%. I think the way he draws fouls there is really amazing and his strength to finish and balance/body control are elite. That's a Lebron fg% at the basket. better than Lebron's rookie year.
 
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cabs

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People were asking whether KPJ or Barrett was the better player and who would have the better career. I lloked ta their numbers and wrote this.

I am a little surprised by everyone in this thread. It's ok to like Barrett, but the numbers are just not on his side. If you look at advanced or even just per36 numbers, KPJ is clearly better, and seems to have fewer holes in his game overall. Rj Barrett does have an edge on him in rebounds to the tune of .9 more rebounds per game. Some totals are slightly better, but none hold up on a per minute basis.

The thing that he is supposed to be good at, passing, he doesn't even average more assists per minute. I would even venture that if you saw KPJ's playmaking this season, you wouldn't be very confident that Barrett can make passes with the touch that KPJ can, because he can't.

So, he is a worse shooter by far, not by a little. His 2pt% is 43% to KPJ's 50%. That isn't a small difference. His 3pt shot is 32% which is ok for a center, but not a wing or guard. Kpj's is very close, but he got better as the year went on and was pulling from deep late in the season, when he was very reluctant in oct. FT% is not in Barret's favor and I don't think he becomes much better of a shooter as time goes by. KPJ showed his Barrett like FT% in college was the fluke and not the 3pt%. KPJ shot over 40 from the corners and his 3pt % got better every month. Shot under 20% from 3 his first month and after Christmas never shot under 40% for from 3.

https://usatrookiewire.files.wordpr...hot-2020-02-21-at-4.04.15-pm.png?w=1000&h=145

Overall, I would say Barrett's numbers are very troubling. He is closer to being a bust than an allstar right now. KPJ instead of a trouble maker being out of the league, has solidified himself as a bonafide guy with potential who is an NBA player. Right now Barrett is fighting to live up to expectations and failing, and Porter has silenced the haters.

Also, anybody who thinks Porter is just coasting on coming off the bench, he played better the more minutes he was given and when garland went down at the end of the year, he played great as a starter and showed chemistry with Sexton.

I agree that Barrett was not put in the best postion, but KPJ was on a team with a worse record and was not allowed to have the ball in his hands as much and he put together a very promising rookie season, better than Darius Garland and Barrett both.

Porter Jr is better now, has better tools, is a better ballhandler, is a better passer, is a better shooter, has better footwork, finishes around the rim better(supposed to be Barretts strength but he shoots 56% while Porter shoots 71% and is elite there), is a better athlete, and has pretty much better all around stats. Defense seems to be really similar between the 2, but Porter has the better net rating due to better offense.

I think the OP has asked the right question because Barrett was scrutinized while Porter Jr's season flew under the radar just pleasantly surprising most people who cared to check. I just think it is obvious who is the better prospect right now, and I don't see any indicators that that will change anytime soon as Porter proved a lot this year, and Barrett has the same question marks he did coming in answering nothing.

The worst for me is Barrett's passing though. Point Forward was his thing and he averaged fewer assists than Collin Sexton in his rookie year. He isn't a point forward and his tunnel vision is bad. He cannot be such a bad shooter and a bad passer. Being a playmaking maestro is the only thing that can save him if his shooting is this poor going forward. he's at best a secondary playmaker I think.

This was the article I got KPJ's month by month 3pt% on. Good analysis.


KPJ has a long way to go, but what we have seen is promising. My biggest question about him is his durability as he has already had some troubling issues.

One thing I was shocked at when I saw. He is finishing at the basket at 71%. I think the way he draws fouls there is really amazing and his strength to finish and balance/body control are elite. That's a Lebron fg% at the basket. better than Lebron's rookie year.
Yep, he has been better than RJ. I am surprised that RJ is younger because he appears to have a more mature body which makes me think there is more natural upside with KP too.
 

ansatsusha80

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The thing I'm worried about with Porter is his maturity.While,I like his aggressiveness on both sides of the ball, he can't be frustrated when he has a bad night like he did against the Wizards and get himself ejected.

With that all said,I think JB is the right coach for the young guys,especially for Porter. I strongly believe, if he works on his craft and listens to JB,I think he'll be the best player on the team and a superstar in this league.
 

Derek

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I think we should be careful about the expectations we put on KPJ. This reminds me all too much of what we did with Cedi after Bron left.

Sure, KPJ showed flashes this year, but ultimately he was bad just like most rookies. I think we should all just be happy if he turns into a good rotation player, and ecstatic if he can be a regular starter on a good team.

Just a reminder of where we were with Cedi less than two years ago:

"With proper playing time, what does Gordon Hayward have in his skill set that Cedi doesn't?"

"there is no difference between the impact of jalen brown and him"

"I have a feeling he’s gonna grab 5-10 triple doubles this season."

"This kid is gonna be so good. If we just had a superstar to pair with him and Love."

"To think we were a year away from having a Lebron, Love, Irving, Cedi foursome. Sigh"


I think Cedi has turned into a fine player and was a good find by our front office. It's a shame that some unrealistic expectations from the start have led to a dip in his approval by fans. I just don't want to see the same thing happen to KPJ.
 
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The Human Q-Tip

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I think we should be careful about the expectations we put on KPJ. This reminds me all too much of what we did with Cedi after Bron left.

Sure, KPJ showed flashes this year, but ultimately he was bad just like most rookies. I think we should all just be happy if he turns into a good rotation player, and ecstatic if he can be a regular starter on a good team.

Just a reminder of where we were with Cedi less than two years ago:

"With proper playing time, what does Gordon Hayward have in his skill set that Cedi doesn't?"

"there is no difference between the impact of jalen brown and him"

"I have a feeling he’s gonna grab 5-10 triple doubles this season."

"This kid is gonna be so good. If we just had a superstar to pair with him and Love."

"To think we were a year away from having a Lebron, Love, Irving, Cedi foursome. Sigh"


I think Cedi has turned into a fine player and was a good find by our front office. It's a shame that some unrealistic expectations from the start have led to a dip in his approval by fans. I just don't want to see the same thing happen to KPJ.
The question is whether you choose to see the world (or at least the Cavs) like Red, or like Andy Dufresne, .

“Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane.” — Red

“Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.” — Andy Dufresne
 
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