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Darius Kinnard Garland

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What is Darius Garland's Ceiling?

  • One Time All-Star

    Votes: 14 8.9%
  • Occasional All-Star

    Votes: 16 10.2%
  • 5-6 Time All-Star

    Votes: 31 19.7%
  • Perennial All-Star

    Votes: 40 25.5%
  • An All-NBA Team or Two

    Votes: 23 14.6%
  • Perennial All-NBA Teamer

    Votes: 20 12.7%
  • Occasional MVP Candidate

    Votes: 11 7.0%
  • Perennial MVP Candidate

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • MVP, Baby!

    Votes: 10 6.4%
  • Being Jim Chones

    Votes: 12 7.6%

  • Total voters
    157
Why can’t this guy be Damian Lillard ? Please, someone tell me why ? Lay out all the history of evolution and family tree, and cloning and Tom
Cruise and tell me why we can’t have our own Dame Lillard...

I’ll wait...
 
Why can’t this guy be Damian Lillard ? Please, someone tell me why ? Lay out all the history of evolution and family tree, and cloning and Tom
Cruise and tell me why we can’t have our own Dame Lillard...

I’ll wait...
Can garland rap?
 
@Rich and @ryanf on their way to Garland thread looking to put out any Garland optimism:

View attachment 5189

Neither of you Jabroni's have acknowledged this scholarly Assist to Value Opportunity thingy that has Darius GODland higher than any other guard in the league on it's x-axis.

I have no idea what that advanced stat means, but I know it's an accurate measurement of what many of us see when he's on the floor making his teammates better.

@Rich we had a breakthrough during that Pacer game on the horrible coaching. I felt we were moving to 2nd base with each other.

Don't do this.
dudeee.... in another thread i was defending how our short backcourt is not necessarily a liability on defense, as long as we have proper forwards and centers.

what i am against is folks claiming garland is better than sexton. right now garland just isn't. can he approach sexton's level? maybe... but he needs to turn up his aggressiveness by 10x for that to happen.

i haven't checked that particular metric and it is the first time i've heard of it, so forgive me if i don't trust it yet. but for any other metric, sexton beats garland hands down.
 
Why can’t this guy be Damian Lillard ? Please, someone tell me why ? Lay out all the history of evolution and family tree, and cloning and Tom
Cruise and tell me why we can’t have our own Dame Lillard...

I’ll wait...
Because "Baby Darius Dolla" just doesn't have the same ring to it?

I see a few fundamental differences between Lillard and Darius:

1. Lillard has a stone-cold killer DNA that I'm just not sure Darius has. He'll shoot the game-winning three, then reach into your chest and rip out your still-beating heart so he can show it to you before you die.

Remember this dagger from a few years back?


I was at that game, and could only respect how Dame shut 20,000 people up just like that. He personally took all the air out of that arena. I've been in libraries that were louder than the Q concourse five minutes after that shot.

Maybe Garland has that same assassin in him. We haven't seen it yet. Absence of evidence/evidence of absence notwithstanding, it is a key difference between them based on what we've seen.

2. Lillard gets to the line way, way more than Garland ever has. (8.4 career FTA per game for Dame vs. 1.4 for Garland.) That's basically 6-7 more points per game right there. That's pretty damn significant. If a guard is going to make at least some of his living in the paint, he has to get to the line more often than Darius is.

3. Durability. Despite taking all of those extra hacks, Lillard is a tank. He's never missed more than nine games in a season, and has played all 82 several times. Garland seems much more injury-prone. You can't help the team when you're wearing a suit on the bench.

I'm sure we can shake down the stats tree and find more differences (rebounding numbers, number of three pointers attempted/made per game), but you get the idea.

Having said all that: Darius just turned 21 and played four games in college before he entered the league. Dame is 30 and originally entered the league after four seasons of college ball. We're comparing the bolognese sauce that has been simmering all day in the pot, with its flavors all combining, to the one that just had its ingredients dumped in.
 
Because "Baby Darius Dolla" just doesn't have the same ring to it?

I see a few fundamental differences between Lillard and Darius:

1. Lillard has a stone-cold killer DNA that I'm just not sure Darius has. He'll shoot the game-winning three, then reach into your chest and rip out your still-beating heart so he can show it to you before you die.

Remember this dagger from a few years back?


I was at that game, and could only respect how Dame shut 20,000 people up just like that. He personally took all the air out of that arena. I've been in libraries that were louder than the Q concourse five minutes after that shot.

Maybe Garland has that same assassin in him. We haven't seen it yet. Absence of evidence/evidence of absence notwithstanding, it is a key difference between them based on what we've seen.

2. Lillard gets to the line way, way more than Garland ever has. (8.4 career FTA per game for Dame vs. 1.4 for Garland.) That's basically 6-7 more points per game right there. That's pretty damn significant. If a guard is going to make at least some of his living in the paint, he has to get to the line more often than Darius is.

3. Durability. Despite taking all of those extra hacks, Lillard is a tank. He's never missed more than nine games in a season, and has played all 82 several times. Garland seems much more injury-prone. You can't help the team when you're wearing a suit on the bench.

I'm sure we can shake down the stats tree and find more differences (rebounding numbers, number of three pointers attempted/made per game), but you get the idea.

Having said all that: Darius just turned 21 and played four games in college before he entered the league. Dame is 30 and originally entered the league after four seasons of college ball. We're comparing the bolognese sauce that has been simmering all day in the pot, with its flavors all combining, to the one that just had its ingredients dumped in.

Yeah and if Garland doesn’t stop relying on that silly floater and starts taking the ball to the rim like a man his FT attempts will not improve. I agree that Lillard and Garland are silly comparisons. Lillard to come into the league older with more college years under his belt so maybe Garland will change my mind, but not seeing it. Not saying he’s a bad player but he’s no Dame
 
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Because "Baby Darius Dolla" just doesn't have the same ring to it?

I see a few fundamental differences between Lillard and Darius:

1. Lillard has a stone-cold killer DNA that I'm just not sure Darius has. He'll shoot the game-winning three, then reach into your chest and rip out your still-beating heart so he can show it to you before you die.

Remember this dagger from a few years back?


I was at that game, and could only respect how Dame shut 20,000 people up just like that. He personally took all the air out of that arena. I've been in libraries that were louder than the Q concourse five minutes after that shot.

Maybe Garland has that same assassin in him. We haven't seen it yet. Absence of evidence/evidence of absence notwithstanding, it is a key difference between them based on what we've seen.

2. Lillard gets to the line way, way more than Garland ever has. (8.4 career FTA per game for Dame vs. 1.4 for Garland.) That's basically 6-7 more points per game right there. That's pretty damn significant. If a guard is going to make at least some of his living in the paint, he has to get to the line more often than Darius is.

3. Durability. Despite taking all of those extra hacks, Lillard is a tank. He's never missed more than nine games in a season, and has played all 82 several times. Garland seems much more injury-prone. You can't help the team when you're wearing a suit on the bench.

I'm sure we can shake down the stats tree and find more differences (rebounding numbers, number of three pointers attempted/made per game), but you get the idea.

Having said all that: Darius just turned 21 and played four games in college before he entered the league. Dame is 30 and originally entered the league after four seasons of college ball. We're comparing the bolognese sauce that has been simmering all day in the pot, with its flavors all combining, to the one that just had its ingredients dumped in.
Lillard is listed at 6'2", 195. Garland is 6'1", 192. Comparing Lillard's rookie season to Garland this year, here are the numbers. Lillard was 22 at the start of his rookie season; Garland turned 21 in January so Garland was a year and a half younger at the time of this comparison.

Lillard: 19.0 ppg, 6.5 apg, 42.9% overall, 36.8% on 3's, 3.9 free throws per game, 3.1 rebounds, 0.9 steals, 3.0 turnovers in 38.6 minutes.
Garland: 16.9 ppg, 5.9 apg, 44.0% overall, 38.4% on 3's, 1.9 free throws per game, 2.2 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 2.9 turnovers in 32.9 minutes.

If you equalize the minutes per game Garland would be averaging 19.8 points and 6.9 assists, so a little higher than Lillard, which makes sense because his shooting percentages are higher. In fact, Lillard never shot 44.0% until his fifth season in the NBA when he was five years older than Garland is now.

Lillard's career 3-point percentage is 37.4%, which Garland has exceeded so far this year. Both of them are shooting exactly 38.4% this season.

One thing Lillard really improved on was his free throw attempts. By his fifth season he went from 3.9 to 7.4 attempts per game. I think part of that was learning how to draw contact and part was his growing reputation that got him more respect from the referees.

Lillard's career shooting percentage is 43.8%, and Garland is there already. He's also there on 3-point percentage. The difference is Garland is only attempting 4.5 per game whereas Lillard attempted 6.1 per game as a rookie and it's been climbing steadily ever since, peaking at 11.2 this year.

Lillard has settled in as a 30 point per game scorer the last two seasons, taking 20-21 shots per game. Garland is taking 14.5. The difference is that Lillard takes six more shots per game and 5.6 more free throws so his scoring average is much higher despite the shooting percentages being virtually identical.

I don't expect Garland to ever be a 30 point per game scorer because he's more of a pass-first playmaker. They're not the same player. But as Garland continues to improve the accuracy of his floater and gets better at recognizing when he can get his three-point shot off I expect his scoring average and shooting percentages will improve.

I believe his assist numbers will also improve as the ability of the players around him to score off his passes improves. This year he is sharing the court with Okoro, Stevens, and Osman - guys with very low shooting percentages. In addition, there were a lot of possessions that involved dumping the ball in to Drummond in the low post and watching him shoot (or get stripped) - no chance for an assist. Also, Jarrett Allen joined the team fairly recently and he and Garland are still working on their timing on the pick-and-rolls.

Lillard is averaging 6.6 assists per 36 minutes for his career and Garland is already there (6.5 per 36 this season). I think Garland has a chance to become a player of similar quality as Lillard although he probably will never take as many shots or get fouled as much.
 
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Lillard is listed at 6'2", 195. Garland is 6'1", 192. Comparing Lillard's rookie season to Garland this year, here are the numbers. Lillard was 22 at the start of his rookie season; Garland turned 21 in January so Garland was a year and a half younger at the time of this comparison.

Lillard: 19.0 ppg, 6.5 apg, 42.9% overall, 36.8% on 3's, 3.9 free throws per game, 3.1 rebounds, 0.9 steals, 3.0 turnovers in 38.6 minutes.
Garland: 16.9 ppg, 5.9 apg, 44.0% overall, 38.4% on 3's, 1.9 free throws per game, 2.2 rebounds, 1.2 steals, 2.9 turnovers in 32.9 minutes.

If you equalize the minutes per game Garland would be averaging 19.8 points and 6.9 assists, so a little higher than Lillard, which makes sense because his shooting percentages are higher. In fact, Lillard never shot 44.0% until his fifth season in the NBA when he was five years older than Garland is now.

Lillard's career 3-point percentage is 37.4%, which Garland has exceeded so far this year. Both of them are shooting exactly 38.4% this season.

One thing Lillard really improved on was his free throw attempts. By his fifth season he went from 3.9 to 7.4 attempts per game. I think part of that was learning how to draw contact and part was his growing reputation that got him more respect from the referees.

Lillard's career shooting percentage is 43.8%, and Garland is there already. He's also there on 3-point percentage. The difference is Garland is only attempting 4.5 per game whereas Lillard attempted 6.1 per game as a rookie and it's been climbing steadily ever since, peaking at 11.2 this year.

Lillard has settled in as a 30 point per game scorer the last two seasons, taking 20-21 shots per game. Garland is taking 14.5. The difference is that Lillard takes six more shots per game and 5.6 more free throws so his scoring average is much higher despite the shooting percentages being virtually identical.

I don't expect Garland to ever be a 30 point per game scorer because he's more of a pass-first playmaker. They're not the same player. But as Garland continues to improve the accuracy of his floater and gets better at recognizing when he can get his three-point shot off I expect his scoring average and shooting percentages will improve.

I believe his assist numbers will also improve as the ability of the players around him to score off his passes improves. This year he is sharing the court with Okoro, Stevens, and Osman - guys with very low shooting percentages. In addition, there were a lot of possessions that involved dumping the ball in to Drummond in the low post and watching him shoot (or get stripped) - no chance for an assist. Also, Jarrett Allen joined the team fairly recently and he and Garland are still working on their timing on the pick-and-rolls.

Lillard is averaging 6.6 assists per 36 minutes for his career and Garland is already there (6.5 per 36 this season). I think Garland has a chance to become a player of similar quality as Lillard although he probably will never take as many shots or get fouled as much.
You have given me hope , seriously. Now we just need to find a stud wing in the draft. It is kinda surprising though that his passing is this good though, he was knocked a bit for that in his draft profile.
 
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dudeee.... in another thread i was defending how our short backcourt is not necessarily a liability on defense, as long as we have proper forwards and centers.

what i am against is folks claiming garland is better than sexton. right now garland just isn't. can he approach sexton's level? maybe... but he needs to turn up his aggressiveness by 10x for that to happen.

i haven't checked that particular metric and it is the first time i've heard of it, so forgive me if i don't trust it yet. but for any other metric, sexton beats garland hands down.

I just shake my head when people say this nonsense. Is Garland the playmaker, I agree but he's not the better overall player between him and Sexton.

Unless,Sexton finally reached his ceiling which I don't see anytime soon or Garland takes a leap so massive that teams start to gameplan against him. I don't understand, why people would say Garland better than Sexton.

I'm not trying to knock Garland because he did improve alot this season but Sexton is way ahead of ahead of him at the moment.
 
I literally haven't seen a single person claim Garland is better than Sexton
Richfield thinks he's the next best PG in the NBA. He'd much rather trade away Sexton and build around sleepy Darius.
 
Reportedly Garland might still not be 100% from the groin injury against Indiana. The Cavs signed a backup point guard to a 10-day.
 
I literally haven't seen a single person claim Garland is better than Sexton

You'll be surprised, I got a couple of friends that think Garland is a better player than Kyrie was in year two.
 
I literally haven't seen a single person claim Garland is better than Sexton

I think Garland is the better player, though I'll never say he's put up better stats.

I think Garland makes the rest of the team better while he's on the floor than Sexton does.

I think Garland requires less specific types of players ("normal sized" sg instead of a "tall pg that can play off ball, too") around him.

If forced to choose between the two, I pick Garland almost every time. In my preferred "realistic" scenario, Garland and Okoro are the starting backcourt guys next year, with Sexton off the bench. Each guy getting about 30 minutes.

I'll add that Sexton just doesn't have the basketball IQ (yet?) to build around. He plays basketball like a chihuahua in heat. Great work ethic and attitude, but no change of pace or ability to downshift. Reminds me of Westbrook in that regard. *IF* he ever got it together, he could have Donovan Mitchell-like impact. Until/unless that happens, I let him carry a second unit as the main ball-handler and scorer.
 

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