Darius Kinnard Garland

[Marcus]

The big difference between Morant and Garland is that Ja's front office didn't make him split playmaking duties with a non playmaker in the same backcourt for 2 seasons.

Garlands ascent over the past 15 games is directly attributable to taking Sexton off the floor and letting Garland play without fighting his own teammate for PG possessions.

Ja Morant is NOT a better point guard than Darius Garland.

He is a better athlete who has a 2 year headstart at establishing himself as the floor general of his team. DG the PG is a better all around floor general with a more developed offensive game. Both use their above average IQs to play defensive lanes.

Morant is on a Westbrook, Francis, prime John Wall trajectory... Garland is much more on a CP3, Nash, prime Tony Parker trajectory

One trajectory is fun for highlights but doesn't impact winning as much. The other is all about getting the wins and will get every ounce out of his skillet to lift the floor of the entire team in order to do it.

Give me Garland in this debate

This right here is why if Sexton is going to have a long term role on this team, it needs to be as a super scorer off the bench.

The ball stops a lot when he's on the court. The difference in the offense has been palpable with DG having the freedom to run the show and facilitate for others.

I'm with @Sir'Dom Pointer - I hope it works out and they can find a spot for him, as he is obviously a talented scorer that a team currently 25th in the league in points per game and with a somewhat lack of rotational depth could really use. If not, he has to have value somewhere around the league, given his youth and the fact that he's already a career 20 ppg scorer.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

I don’t want Sexton here anymore and I’m surprised I’m basically the only one.

You guys realize making him come off the bench isn’t going to change much right? It’s always weird to me when people talk about moving a guy to a super sub bench role as if it’s going to drastically change the dynamic of the team. Sure, it makes a little difference, but at the end of the day Sexton is still going to be playing his 30+ mpg which is at least 2/3 of a basketball game, and at least 1/3 of that is going to be alongside Garland. Why spends anywhere from $15 mil/year and $25 mil/year on a bench guy who very clearly has made the team’s worse so far and we only hope that by putting him in a bench role, things will be different?

Oh, and by the way you guys do know we’re set to have $50 million in cap space when Love comes off the books in 2023, right? Say goodbye to the ability to sign a max free agent or multiple great role players if we retain Sexton, because we’re also going to need to extend Garland and possibly Rubio.

Furthermore, if you look at the Cavs’ Rubio-Sexton minutes with Garland off the floor from this year, Sexton actually shot the ball well during that time despite being inefficient on the whole to start this year so far. In fact, Sexton’s 56.3% TS (compared to league average 55.3%) is actually higher in relation to league average than his scoring efficiency last year, being 57.3% TS versus 57.2% TS for the league on the whole. So good new right? Actually no. Because the Cavs still posted an absolutely putrid 99.6 ORTG during those 117 minutes. We’re 4 seasons into his career and it’s become abundantly clear that despite his one-on-one scoring he doesn’t have a positive impact on a team-level offense due to his lack of playmaking, poor off-ball movement and off-ball gravity, and his style of play which leaves everyone else out of rhythm. And yet people on this forum are still in denial about this for some reason.

It doesn’t have to be anything personal. It just hasn’t worked out here. We have an awesome roster and we can afford to let Sexton go. We’re not obligated to try to fit a square peg in a round hole while paying a shit ton of money for that square peg as well. Basically everyone else seems to recognize how much better the Cavs play without Sexton except for Cavs fans themselves lol. It’s more than just Garland being able to be more comfortable in his role and play better. The whole team’s chemistry on and off the court is better. Let’s get some guys who fit around our core to play the 2 and 3 (preferably a 3+D guy and another player who can function as a secondary creator on the wing) and contend for titles.

 

[Lee]

The big difference between Morant and Garland is that Ja's front office didn't make him split playmaking duties with a non playmaker in the same backcourt for 2 seasons.

Garlands ascent over the past 15 games is directly attributable to taking Sexton off the floor and letting Garland play without fighting his own teammate for PG possessions.

Ja Morant is NOT a better point guard than Darius Garland.

He is a better athlete who has a 2 year headstart at establishing himself as the floor general of his team. DG the PG is a better all around floor general with a more developed offensive game. Both use their above average IQs to play defensive lanes.

Morant is on a Westbrook, Francis, prime John Wall trajectory... Garland is much more on a CP3, Nash, prime Tony Parker trajectory

One trajectory is fun for highlights but doesn't impact winning as much. The other is all about getting the wins and will get every ounce out of his skillet to lift the floor of the entire team in order to do it.

Give me Garland in this debate

I dont see CP3, CP3 is a much better defender, and better on drives because of his frame, but doesnt have the quickness of Garland. I think Nash is actually a fair comparison. I hope he doesnt have Nash like defense, heck he is much better defender already than Nash and Garland isnt a good defender, lol (but he has effort and Nash might be the worst defensive PG I have ever seen). And while I didnt think Nash deserved those 2 MVP's, this isnt an argument for or against Garland.

You and I have been on the Garland train for awhile. I see what he is doing now as just scratching the surface. I dont think Sexton hampered his development as much as you do, but I get your point for sure. Sexton should have been coming off the bench as instant offense. I hope we resign Sexton and that is his new role. Then I hope Ivey falls to the Cavs, not only because i think he is a perfect fit next to Garland, but I want a Purdue guy on the team to root for, lol

But Garland is at 19pts on 37% from 3 (and going up), and 7.5 assists. While with other offensive players on the team will keep his offense from going up too much more (maybe he hits the "magic" 20 points a game?), his assist total will hover around 9 in the future as he keeps learning the position, plus him playing with Allen and Mobley is like a cheat code the way Garland distributes too big men.

I think Garland has a legit shot at the all star game this year, but he just has the feeling both in stats and watching his game as a multi time All Star. Not sure Garland is a future MVP, but thats ok, i will take 8 time all star and future HOFer....we now have our future MVPer on the team in Mobley anyways, lol.

Also way off subject but I do want your opinion, go to the Markkanen thread to answer if you must, do you think Lauri is our future at SF? I have begun to turn my opinion. He is defending the position much better than I thought. He will never be the playmaker that i want at the position, or posses the ability to drive like i want from a SF, but shooting, defense, and starting to take advantage of size matchups is all there. He defended Herro much better than I would of ever guessed possible when we made the trade, and i thought it was a good trade, so not anti Lauri, just didnt expect it.

 

[Heat Check]

Also way off subject but I do want your opinion, go to the Markkanen thread to answer if you must, do you think Lauri is our future at SF? I have begun to turn my opinion. He is defending the position much better than I thought. He will never be the playmaker that i want at the position, or posses the ability to drive like i want from a SF, but shooting, defense, and starting to take advantage of size matchups is all there. He defended Herro much better than I would of ever guessed possible when we made the trade, and i thought it was a good trade, so not anti Lauri, just didnt expect it.

In the NBA, your position is pretty much defined by who you're guarding in games. That's why Markkanen is the "small forward" of the starting lineup.

However... on the other side of the ball, it's not quite that simple. Look closely at Markkanen during games, and you'll see that on offense, him and Mobley have a very fluid division of responsibilities. Lauri spends more time spacing the floor (which is to be expected), but other than that, they both do SF and PF stuff. Of the Triple Towers, Allen is the only one with a clearly defined, narrow-ish offensive role.

IMO, this is a very good idea. You always try to keep the opposition guessing as much as possible. Both these guys can be matchup nightmares.

To sum up, I consider Markkanen to be a "forward". That's a better way of describing his overall role on this team.

(Apologies for staying off topic)

 

[Lee]

In the NBA, your position is pretty much defined by who you're guarding in games. That's why Markkanen is the "small forward" of the starting lineup.

However... on the other side of the ball, it's not quite that simple. Look closely at Markkanen during games, and you'll see that on offense, him and Mobley have a very fluid division of responsibilities. Lauri spends more time spacing the floor (which is to be expected), but other than that, they both do SF and PF stuff. Of the Triple Towers, Allen is the only one with a clearly defined, narrow-ish offensive role.

IMO, this is a very good idea. You always try to keep the opposition guessing as much as possible. Both these guys can be matchup nightmares.

To sum up, I consider Markkanen to be a "forward". That's a better way of describing his overall role on this team.

That is an old saying about your defense is your position which is about 75% true. PG's still need to be offensive ball handlers, and from both your wing positions...sg and sf, you like to see some shooting and the ability to drive. Not all rosters or players fit perfect molds and some are very good at being unicorns like Jokic for example. But right now our offense lacks people who can get to the rim and playmakers. Both are things that allot of the time comes from a SF.

Now I am not saying we need a Lebron level SF, or Lauri at the 3 wont work with Mobley being a baby Unicorn, just think we need more play making. Now a better SG could get us the better playmaking too.

Also, once Love's contract is up, who plays backup big minutes? Wade good for a 28 min a game role? I am not trying to define their futures, one thing Koby has done is trade and draft based upon talent and figure out lineups later. Just identifying some holes to look at filling as we move forward.

Depending on which parts of Mobley's game develops and how much, will also help us cover allot of needs moving forward and allow us to have unique lineups. Mobley is such a key to so many things. I am still shocked he fell to us. It was so obvious to me he was the best player in the draft (I also loved Barnes, but we had to pick one, and it wasnt 1A and 1B for me, it was 1 then 2 then huuuge drop)

 

[J_J]

Do we really know that? I mean, Garland's impact on winning was questionable prior to this season, and there were so many other significant changes to this roster during the offseason that I'm not sure how much of that can be attributed specifically to Garland.

If you flipped Morant and Garland, would this team be winning fewer games? Advanced stats seem to favor Morant in terms of his impact on winning.

Well, Memphis won a margin of 73 points without Morant so I guess that means his winning impact is really nothing

To your question, I don’t know if Morant can make those lob passes consistently to Mobley and Allen. I feel Garland is a better fit for Mobley and Allen because he’s more Steve Nash based which makes his other players better. I love Morant on how he is aggressive to the rim, makes shots when needed and his 3 pointer shooting has been much better this year. Garland has massively increased his range and could have the ability to shoot like Dame in the near future which will be perfect in modern NBA.

 

[J_J]

I feel bad that Sexton god injured. It must be hella tough for him to watch the team from the sidelines. I just hope he becomes a smarter player after this and finds a way to contribute to what the Cavs are trying to do right now. And if not, I hope he has enough value around the league.

I feel bad for Sexton as well. Garland, Lauri, Cedi, and Love have stepped up in scoring and bringing offensive threats for this team, But for such a great attitude like Sexton, I think he will come back and contribute other ways to help this team.

 

[cliffdawg]

I’ll take Garland over lemelo or brogdon.


Gun to the head id take
Steph
Luka
Trey
Morant over Garland


Garland has fairly high ceiling. Can get anywhere on the court, is quicker than almost everyone, has huge range on the 3 ball and has some Steph in his game when it comes to shot off the dribble.


And he has high end pacing, spacing, and passing.

I was told by another poster if you want to win now , you take Brunson from Dallas……lmao

 

[cabs]

I was told by another poster if you want to win now , you take Brunson from Dallas……lmao

What about having Rubio as the starter long term and trading Garland, that was a very out there take

 

[Futuredome]

What about having Rubio as the starter long term and trading Garland, that was a very out there take

I could have seen it rationally though Collin needs a Lamelo to be besides for max potential. If Lottery balls had gone differently in 2020, Garland would be long gone and Okoro a never been. It's always been that way. Just think if LeBron went to Miami in 2003 and Wade a Cav???

 

[cabs]

I could have seen it rationally though Collin needs a Lamelo to be besides for max potential. If Lottery balls had gone differently in 2020, Garland would be long gone and Okoro a never been. It's always been that way. Just think if LeBron went to Miami in 2003 and Wade a Cav???

not sure what this post is or how it is relevant to my post you quoted

 

[Futuredome]

not sure what this post is or how it is relevant to my post you quoted

The point is randomness.

 

[Heat Check]

That is an old saying about your defense is your position which is about 75% true. PG's still need to be offensive ball handlers, and from both your wing positions...sg and sf, you like to see some shooting and the ability to drive. Not all rosters or players fit perfect molds and some are very good at being unicorns like Jokic for example. But right now our offense lacks people who can get to the rim and playmakers. Both are things that allot of the time comes from a SF.

There's a variety of factors involved here that combine to make our playmaking very PG-centric currently.

1) Garland is ineffective when he's off ball. He doesn't really move, and while he can shoot from the outside, he doesn't scare teams as a catch-and-shoot threat - mostly because of his size, and the aforementioned lack of movement. We're maximizing his talents right now, and that means keeping the ball in his hands all the time when he's out there. (That's why the Garland-Rubio lineups are some of my least favorite ones. You often see Ricky taking the PG responsibilities, leaving DG to function as a meh combo guard.)

2) Talking about Ricky – for all his passing talent, he's truly a ball dominant PG by nature. He thrives when he gets to run the show. And like Garland, he's hardly a spot up threat on the weak side anyway.

3) Our ball movement has dried up a bit. Sometimes it seems we're almost addicted to the Garland-Allen pick and roll – and hey, it works. But we've started to ignore cutters and guys sealing smaller defenders in the paint since we're so eager to get the aforemention duo going all the time. I'd like to see the ball being worked around a bit more.

The above things sound like complaints, but we're playing very well, so consider them as something to keep an eye on. Predictability is never good in the NBA. Not individally and not on team level. What we're doing is working now, but this league will eventually figure you out. It always does.

 

[Derek]

There's a variety of factors involved here that combine to make our playmaking very PG-centric currently.

1) Garland is ineffective when he's off ball. He doesn't really move, and while he can shoot from the outside, he doesn't scare teams as a catch-and-shoot threat - mostly because his size, and the aforementioned lack of movement. We're maximizing his talents right now, and that means keeping the ball in his hands all the time when he's out there. (That's why the Garland-Rubio lineups are some of my least favorite ones. You often see Ricky taking the PG responsibilities, leaving DG to function as a meh combo guard.)

2) Talking about Ricky – for all his passing talent, he's truly a ball dominant PG by nature. He thrives when he gets to run the show. And like Garland, he's hardly a spot up threat on the weak side anyway.

3) Our ball movement has dried up a bit. Sometimes it seems we're almost addicted to the Garland-Allen pick and roll – and hey, it works. But we've started to ignore cutters and guys sealing smaller defenders in the paint since we're so eager to get the aforemention duo going all the time. I'd like to see the ball being worked around a bit more.

The above things sound like complaints, but we're playing very well, so consider them as something to keep an eye on. Predictability is never good in the NBA. Not individally and not on team level. What we're doing is working now, but this league will eventually figure you out. It always does.

Maybe Garland struggled a bit playing off ball early in the season, but he’s figured it out.

There’s a reason the Garland-Rubio pairing has been incredibly effective, and by far our best pairing all year.

 

[The Oi]

The point is randomness.

See me after class.