• I'd like to make a monthly donation to the Humate Society in Fred's name. To do this we'll need a few more dollars. If you can, please donate to help us reach our goal.

2019 Draft, Pick #5 - Darius Garland, Vanderbilt

Nathan S

33 is the new 23
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
11,373
Reaction score
14,385
Points
123
Agreed, but it is Trae's play making ability that made him the 2nd best rookie last year and a future all star.
The thing is, just being a great playmaker isn't enough. Because he's a traffic cone on defense, he needs to be firing on all cylinders on offense to have an All-Star level overall impact. Not an easy task. I think Garland's likely in the same boat.
 

CleveRocks

There go the Cavs!
Administrator
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
5,826
Reaction score
2,786
Points
113
It's too early to begin building a team around anybody. We need to develop the guys we have, or look for gems in the rough .. See who stands up.. Then we can look to plug holes..

This season is going to be a lot of lopsided losses as the new coach figures out NBA ball, and as the kids figure out NBA talent and effort.. Sexton made great strides last year, and obviously got stronger (because that is necessary) off season, but most guards take 4 years to reach efficiency, so he has a way to go.. Garland, Windler, Porter all getting thier first taste and going to be drinking from a fire hose for a bit. any serious injury could delay them a year easy.. . Guys like Bolden and Wade same thing but might not even make the team.. Even Zizic is only 22.

So patience is the order of the day..if you are expecting immediate results, you are in the wrong fan club..
 

blommen

Pissing Excellence
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
4,210
Reaction score
4,098
Points
113
The thing is, just being a great playmaker isn't enough. Because he's a traffic cone on defense, he needs to be firing on all cylinders on offense to have an All-Star level overall impact. Not an easy task. I think Garland's likely in the same boat.
This is a great point, it can't be overstated just how impactful you need to be offensively as a PG to make up for all but nonexistent defensive value. There are very few players in the league who can manage that kind of impact on offense where it makes up for their defensive shortcomings to the extent that it comes out as a significant net positive.
 

Mr. MacPhisto

Lapsed Point Guard
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
1,746
Reaction score
1,493
Points
113
We have a history of that already. We do not capitalize on expirings, even our best ones. Why do you think Knights any different? What has he done in the last 3 years to convince teams that he is impactful, and why do we think him playing fairly well on a bottom dweller is going to make a contender feel any differently about him and prioritize him over other players/expirings?

Do you really think it's worth doing so if if it is at the expanse of maximizing Garland's development?

We need late 1sts, 2nd round picks that I agree with. We need a lot of that. Just don't think it's that way.
Teams do not look at three years of data to see if an expiring is worth something. They look at how he plays during the season they are acquiring him.

As has been said, you play Knight. If he stinks, you bench him and hope someone wants him just to clear cap space for the future. If not, you let the contract expire and you move on.

I don't know how Knight will play this year. No one does. Reality is over the past 2-3 years, Knight missed a WHOLE season due to injury.

What we do know is he shot 37% from 3PT last year with the Cavs. We also know that in his last moderately healthy season before last year that he averaged over 11PPG off the bench.

Is Knight a stud? No. Is he someone that could provide scoring from the bench for a team without a strong PG backup? Possibly.

I doubt we would be trading expiring for expiring, so it's not just about what he can contribute now, it's also about what he can save in the future. The league looks like it has a lot of parity at the top this year, so I expect tons of teams will be taking chances on talent in February to get a final push and try to climb the ladder to get a higher seed.

And I also don't see how it will impact Garland's development. With Garland's lack of play last year, I think they will bring him along slowly. He's not going to be playing 36mpg at the beginning of the season. Even if he starts, my bet is he gets 22-24mpg to begin the season with the time increasing gradually. He is NOT used to the long season as a rookie, especially as a rookie that didn't play last year.

So I would argue that playing Garland TOO Much would also negatively impact his development. I see nothing wrong with Garland getting 22, Knight getting 20, and Delly getting 6. I suspect Sexton will largely play the 2 and Clarkson will also get a lot of bench time there.

But I doubt Garland goes over 24 much to start the season. So if Knight isn't playing, it is most likely Delly will. And if Knight performs poorly, Delly will get more minutes.

The idea that playing Knight will negatively impact Garland is ludicrous. I'm not advocating the Knight STARTS. I'm advocating that we play him and see what we have. You never know, we might even re-sign him if he plays well off the bench and comes at a decent price. The guy is only 27 and might be a decent backup PG. We won't know if we just blindly bench him out of fear of Garland not playing 36mpg.
 

Cavatt

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
19,716
Reaction score
19,624
Points
123
Teams do not look at three years of data to see if an expiring is worth something. They look at how he plays during the season they are acquiring him.

As has been said, you play Knight. If he stinks, you bench him and hope someone wants him just to clear cap space for the future. If not, you let the contract expire and you move on.

I don't know how Knight will play this year. No one does. Reality is over the past 2-3 years, Knight missed a WHOLE season due to injury.

What we do know is he shot 37% from 3PT last year with the Cavs. We also know that in his last moderately healthy season before last year that he averaged over 11PPG off the bench.

Is Knight a stud? No. Is he someone that could provide scoring from the bench for a team without a strong PG backup? Possibly.

I doubt we would be trading expiring for expiring, so it's not just about what he can contribute now, it's also about what he can save in the future. The league looks like it has a lot of parity at the top this year, so I expect tons of teams will be taking chances on talent in February to get a final push and try to climb the ladder to get a higher seed.

And I also don't see how it will impact Garland's development. With Garland's lack of play last year, I think they will bring him along slowly. He's not going to be playing 36mpg at the beginning of the season. Even if he starts, my bet is he gets 22-24mpg to begin the season with the time increasing gradually. He is NOT used to the long season as a rookie, especially as a rookie that didn't play last year.

So I would argue that playing Garland TOO Much would also negatively impact his development. I see nothing wrong with Garland getting 22, Knight getting 20, and Delly getting 6. I suspect Sexton will largely play the 2 and Clarkson will also get a lot of bench time there.

But I doubt Garland goes over 24 much to start the season. So if Knight isn't playing, it is most likely Delly will. And if Knight performs poorly, Delly will get more minutes.

The idea that playing Knight will negatively impact Garland is ludicrous. I'm not advocating the Knight STARTS. I'm advocating that we play him and see what we have. You never know, we might even re-sign him if he plays well off the bench and comes at a decent price. The guy is only 27 and might be a decent backup PG. We won't know if we just blindly bench him out of fear of Garland not playing 36mpg.
The thing that bothers me about Knight is that I feel like he doesn't really play with anyone else. His assists suck, and he isn't that efficient of a scorer. The best thing we have been able to say so far is that he helped Collin improve off the ball because he can handle the ball.

Is he that big of a scoring threat? I mean we hear about Sexton not having a feel for the game or playing together, but what does Knight have in that regard? Seeing him in preseason has done nothing to change that for me. I really hope I am wrong because I would love to flip him. Some people think he is better than Clarkson, but that is laughable to me. Clarkson at least has some chemistry with TT, Delly and Nance. I really like Clarkson at SG, it is PG where he drives me crazy when he is just freelancing 100%.
 

Mr. MacPhisto

Lapsed Point Guard
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
1,746
Reaction score
1,493
Points
113
The thing that bothers me about Knight is that I feel like he doesn't really play with anyone else. His assists suck, and he isn't that efficient of a scorer. The best thing we have been able to say so far is that he helped Collin improve off the ball because he can handle the ball.

Is he that big of a scoring threat? I mean we hear about Sexton not having a feel for the game or playing together, but what does Knight have in that regard? Seeing him in preseason has done nothing to change that for me. I really hope I am wrong because I would love to flip him. Some people think he is better than Clarkson, but that is laughable to me. Clarkson at least has some chemistry with TT, Delly and Nance. I really like Clarkson at SG, it is PG where he drives me crazy when he is just freelancing 100%.
That's all fair.

I would never dream of saying he's better than Clarkson. Clarkson has his deficiencies, but I think Clarkson also can clearly be a sparkplug off the bench. I think Clarkson and Tristan will be two highly sought after guys as we get closer to February as long as both stay healthy. Same goes for Love.

I agree that if Knight is clearly a detriment you bench him. But I look at Knight as a backup PG where I see Clarkson as a 2. I do think it can be argued that Knight can score more than Delly - and I like Delly.
 

inliner311

All-Star
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
6,647
Reaction score
5,393
Points
113
The thing that bothers me about Knight is that I feel like he doesn't really play with anyone else. His assists suck, and he isn't that efficient of a scorer. The best thing we have been able to say so far is that he helped Collin improve off the ball because he can handle the ball.

Is he that big of a scoring threat? I mean we hear about Sexton not having a feel for the game or playing together, but what does Knight have in that regard? Seeing him in preseason has done nothing to change that for me. I really hope I am wrong because I would love to flip him. Some people think he is better than Clarkson, but that is laughable to me. Clarkson at least has some chemistry with TT, Delly and Nance. I really like Clarkson at SG, it is PG where he drives me crazy when he is just freelancing 100%.
I think Knight has been pretty unremarkable with the Cavs but maybe that changes if he is finally healthy. He really only needs to get alittle better to be seen as a good addition to a playoff team. His per 36 with the Cavs is 13.4 ppg. His per 36 average is 17.3 for his NBA career. He has 4 season where his per 36 was between 18.8 and 19.7. 3 of those season were where he played 32+ minute but his last season in Phoenix he played 22 and was still able to keep his per 36 at the same rate.

I think he was asked to take a backseat to Sexton with the Cavs last season. If he is able to up his per 36 number to closer to his career average and the Cavs vary his minutes to show teams he can handle 30+ minutes for stretches like a spot starter would but also still produce playing low 20's kind of minutes, I think teams will see value in him. Basically a player who is a steady and can adjust to minutes is something that someone looking for a 3rd guard will want.

I think Clarkson is a player that can shot you into a win or shot you into a lose. Knight if he is closer to his old self is a player that can be a steady force off the bench that keeps you in games night in and night out while being able to step into a starting role for stretches. I think alot of team will see a place for Knight while fewer will want to risk it with Clarkson.
 
Last edited:

J_J

In the Rotation
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
467
Reaction score
747
Points
93
I thought this was amazing. It is great to see these kinds of practices. DG’s shooting is very silky smooth. Working on his step back 3 as well. Once he is able to gain more confidence and have the green light to shoot more, he is going to be lights out. Very excited for him this season.
 

King Stannis

The One True King
Administrator
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
13,624
Reaction score
18,040
Points
123
It's too early to begin building a team around anybody. We need to develop the guys we have, or look for gems in the rough .. See who stands up.. Then we can look to plug holes..

This season is going to be a lot of lopsided losses as the new coach figures out NBA ball, and as the kids figure out NBA talent and effort.. Sexton made great strides last year, and obviously got stronger (because that is necessary) off season, but most guards take 4 years to reach efficiency, so he has a way to go.. Garland, Windler, Porter all getting thier first taste and going to be drinking from a fire hose for a bit. any serious injury could delay them a year easy.. . Guys like Bolden and Wade same thing but might not even make the team.. Even Zizic is only 22.

So patience is the order of the day..if you are expecting immediate results, you are in the wrong fan club..
All that said, I think Garland is going to have a very good offensive rookie campaign.

Rookie First Team.
 

CavsFaninNJ

In the Rotation
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Messages
949
Reaction score
519
Points
93
I'm really high on Garland, can't wait. I have Coby White in my fantasy league - might drop him for Garland. Either way, I love a shooter. I bought Cavs-Knicks tickets on the strength of him, might even get league pass.
 

Dr. Claw

Loves Cold, Hates Heat
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
2,045
Reaction score
1,694
Points
113
Dude has some range on those 3s. I think Sexland is actually going to work, people....
 

Humane Society of Summit County

Total amount
$100.00
Goal
$350.00

Radio

Top