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2019 FA and Offseason Mega Thread

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They will rest veterans if necessary to make sure we keep our pick.

That is the plan. It’s a lock. It’s always been the plan.

Saying you’d only take the bet if Love and the vets play 82 games isn’t a thing. They never were going to.

We’re a developing team, remember?

You don’t get to raise concern that we have a 30-35 win team so we may lose our pick, and then when @CBBI says there’s no way we win 30, you turn around and say “Well, only if we play the young guys.”

We were always playing the young guys. Thus, your original premise that we have a 30-35 win team is entirely void.

No it’s not. This team certainly has the talent to win 30 to 35 games. What happens during the regular season & how much they rest veterans remains to be seen.

I’ll say it again, if the point is to rest the veterans and not play them then why are we keeping Kevin Love and paying him $30 million a year?? So do we just hold onto him & continue to not play him until the Cavs are good again, hoping that he might still have something left in the tank? Say, I want one of those jobs where someone pays me a whole mess of money not to do anything...
 
No it’s not. This team certainly has the talent to win 30 to 35 games. What happens during the regular season & how much they rest veterans remains to be seen.

I’ll say it again, if the point is to rest the veterans and not play them then why are we keeping Kevin Love and paying him $30 million a year?? So do we just hold onto him & continue to not play him until the Cavs are good again, hoping that he might still have something left in the tank? Say, I want one of those jobs where someone pays me a whole mess of money not to do anything...
I’ve seen you post this Kevin Love point a thousand times like we didn’t just pay JR Smith $15 million last year to sit at home.

We signed Kevin to give him what he deserves while also buying us time to trade him and extract value. The front office likes him as a player, is fine with having him around—considering we won’t be using our space for awhile—and he’s a good influence on the locker room while he’s here.

We likely trade him at the deadline or next offseason. Ideally, you’d have found the right deal this offseason but he’s coming off injury and it was a big free agent class.

In-season, a team is going to go for it and Love might be the best player available at the deadline. After some of this offseason’s deals, Love’s contract isn’t even too bad now. We will find the right deal. It just takes patience.

In the meantime, he’ll be a good veteran teammate and make life easier on the court for our young players. You’re really sweating this over nothing.
 
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I’ve seen you post this Kevin Love point a thousand times like we didn’t just pay JR Smith $15 million last year to sit at home.

We signed Kevin to give him what he deserves while also buying us time to trade him and extract value. The front office likes him as a player, is fine with having him around—considering we won’t be using our space for awhile—and he’s a good influence on the locker room while he’s here.

We likely trade him at the deadline or next offseason. Ideally, you’d have found the right deal this offseason but he’s coming off injury and it was a big free agent class.

In-season, a team is going to go for it and Love might be the best player available at the deadline. After some of this offseason’s deals, Love’s contract isn’t even too bad now. We will find the right deal. It just takes patience.

In the meantime, he’ll be a good veteran teammate and make like easier on the court for our young players. You’re really sweating this over nothing.
Call me crazy and I know it’s not my money, but I’m far too logical to understand paying a guy to sit and not do anything. If the end goal is to trade Love and extract some value, holding onto a depreciating asset does nothing for his value. We recently saw, with the Paul-Westbrook trade, what the market is for players that are on the plus side of 30 and who are signed a long-term contracts. News flash- it ain’t good.

Teams value cap flexibility and there just isn’t a big demand for plus-30 players signed to long-term contracts. The Cavs may have thought they were doing a good thing for the franchise in signing Kevin Love to that long-term contract, but the moment he signed it, his value went down.

The market for Westbrook, a guy who averaged a triple double the last three seasons, was so depressed that OKC traded him for a a couple of draft picks and a guy that has perhaps the worst contract in the NBA. Ironically, the Thunder will now have to attach draft picks to Chris Paul to have any hope of trading him.

All I’m saying is whether we hold onto Love for another week, another month, or another year, his value is only likely to go down further. That’s until he’s an expiring contract, when his value will go back up, but that’s still a three years away. So, if the end goal is to trade him, I just don’t see the point in holding onto a depreciating asset that you don’t really want to play anyways? The Cavs may not like the offers they are getting for Kevin Love, but you can’t turn chicken sh!t into chicken salad...and that contract is the former.
 
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Call me crazy and I know it’s not my money, but I’m far too logical to understand paying a guy to sit and not do anything. If the end goal is to trade Love and extract some value, holding onto a depreciating asset does nothing for his value. We recently saw, with the Paul-Westbrook trade, what the market is for players that are on the plus side of 30 and who are signed a long-term contracts. News flash- it ain’t good.

Teams value cap flexibility and there just isn’t a big demand for plus-30 players signed to long-term contracts. The Cavs may have thought they were doing a good thing for the franchise in signing Kevin Love to that long-term contract, but the moment he signed it, his value went down.

The market for Westbrook, a guy who averaged a triple double the last three seasons, was so depressed that OKC traded him for a a couple of draft picks and a guy that has perhaps the worst contract in the NBA. Ironically, the Thunder will now have to attach draft picks to Chris Paul to have any hope of trading him.

All I’m saying is whether we hold onto Love for another week, another month, or another year, his value is only likely to go down further. That’s until he’s an expiring contract, when his value will go back up, but that’s still a three years away. So, if the end goal is to trade him, I just don’t see the point in holding onto a depreciating asset that you don’t really want to play anyways? The Cavs may not like the offers they are getting for Kevin Love, but you can’t turn chicken sh!t into chicken salad...and that contract is the former.

Cp3 and Westbrook also make 40 M per season compared to 29 Kevin will make this year followed by 2 years at 31 then dropping back to 29 in his final year which is 18ish cheaper then Westbrooks final year whos game relies on athleticism. Kevin should age relatively well and is signed to a less then max deal. Its not as bad of a contract as you make it out to be.
 
Cp3 and Westbrook also make 40 M per season compared to 29 Kevin will make this year followed by 2 years at 31 then dropping back to 29 in his final year which is 18ish cheaper then Westbrooks final year whos game relies on athleticism. Kevin should age relatively well and is signed to a less then max deal. Its not as bad of a contract as you make it out to be.
You may not consider it bad, but you also have to consider that Love is soon to be 31 years old, he has reputation for being injury prone, and also for not played a whole lot of defense. When you look at it that way, it’s easy to see why teams aren’t exactly chomping at the bit to add a player that will make approximately $30 million a year for the next four years, by which time he would be 34.
 
You may not consider it bad, but you also have to consider that Love is soon to be 31 years old, he has reputation for being injury prone, and also for not played a whole lot of defense. When you look at it that way, it’s easy to see why teams aren’t exactly chomping at the bit to add a player that will make approximately $30 million a year for the next four years, by which time he would be 34.

I never said it wasn't bad. I said its not as bad as your making it out to be.
 
Call me crazy and I know it’s not my money, but I’m far too logical to understand paying a guy to sit and not do anything. If the end goal is to trade Love and extract some value, holding onto a depreciating asset does nothing for his value. We recently saw, with the Paul-Westbrook trade, what the market is for players that are on the plus side of 30 and who are signed a long-term contracts. News flash- it ain’t good.

Teams value cap flexibility and there just isn’t a big demand for plus-30 players signed to long-term contracts. The Cavs may have thought they were doing a good thing for the franchise in signing Kevin Love to that long-term contract, but the moment he signed it, his value went down.

The market for Westbrook, a guy who averaged a triple double the last three seasons, was so depressed that OKC traded him for a a couple of draft picks and a guy that has perhaps the worst contract in the NBA. Ironically, the Thunder will now have to attach draft picks to Chris Paul to have any hope of trading him.

All I’m saying is whether we hold onto Love for another week, another month, or another year, his value is only likely to go down further. That’s until he’s an expiring contract, when his value will go back up, but that’s still a three years away. So, if the end goal is to trade him, I just don’t see the point in holding onto a depreciating asset that you don’t really want to play anyways? The Cavs may not like the offers they are getting for Kevin Love, but you can’t turn chicken sh!t into chicken salad...and that contract is the former.

The difference between Westbrook/CP3 and Love is the position they play and the available talent at that position. Finding a starter quality stretch 4 is harder than finding a starting quality PG by a wide margin. Stretch 5s might be the only position harder to find than a stretch 4 and it's not a absolute necessity yet in the NBA, having a stretch 4 is.

The only other stretch 4 I can think of that would be available and could step in and start on a contender is Marvin Williams. He also isn't anywhere close to the level of Love and is 2+ years older.
 
Call me crazy and I know it’s not my money, but I’m far too logical to understand paying a guy to sit and not do anything. If the end goal is to trade Love and extract some value, holding onto a depreciating asset does nothing for his value. We recently saw, with the Paul-Westbrook trade, what the market is for players that are on the plus side of 30 and who are signed a long-term contracts. News flash- it ain’t good.

Teams value cap flexibility and there just isn’t a big demand for plus-30 players signed to long-term contracts. The Cavs may have thought they were doing a good thing for the franchise in signing Kevin Love to that long-term contract, but the moment he signed it, his value went down.

The market for Westbrook, a guy who averaged a triple double the last three seasons, was so depressed that OKC traded him for a a couple of draft picks and a guy that has perhaps the worst contract in the NBA. Ironically, the Thunder will now have to attach draft picks to Chris Paul to have any hope of trading him.

All I’m saying is whether we hold onto Love for another week, another month, or another year, his value is only likely to go down further. That’s until he’s an expiring contract, when his value will go back up, but that’s still a three years away. So, if the end goal is to trade him, I just don’t see the point in holding onto a depreciating asset that you don’t really want to play anyways? The Cavs may not like the offers they are getting for Kevin Love, but you can’t turn chicken sh!t into chicken salad...and that contract is the former.
Love just missed an entire season.

If he comes back and looks good the first half of the season, his value will definitely rise. It simply will. That’s not an opinion; it’s a fact.

Also, Love’s game has never been predicated on athleticism like Westbrook’s. He’s a shooter, a good rebounder, and a guy who you can work offense through. He’s a 5-time All-Star for a reason.

Furthermore, he’s 30 and his contract is roughly $30 million/year for the next 4 years. It’s balanced, even dipping below $30 million in the final year as the cap rises. He’ll be off the contract by the time he’s really declined significantly. It’s really not that hard to swallow.

Westbrook, on the other hand, is due $47 million in his final year. That’s an entirely different animal.

Chris Paul is making $40 million/year and he’s already older than Love will be when his contract is up.

It’s moveable. Very moveable. Especially with the cap around $116 million next year.

Did you see what Al Horford just received from Philly at 33 years of age? Tobias Harris? Khris Middleton?

That Love contract looks better by the day.

I’m all for moving Love. I’ve been an advocate of moving him for two years.

However, it’s just plain stupid to set a deadline on it and make yourself take the best offer by that point. We have plenty of time and cap (after this season) to wait for the right offer.

In the meantime, you keep him healthy and rest him on back-to-backs. You rest him situationally after he’s played 4-5 in a row. At most, he plays about 60 games if he isn’t moved by the deadline.
 
We are a 20-25 win team like the Knicks. The hornets are a 15-20win team imo
 
Notice I said ‘if they stay healthy?’ I’d only take that bet with the veterans playing a minimum number of games. If the Cavs hold the veterans out, then I don’t take that bet. Then again, I don’t really understand the point of keeping Kevin Love around if you aren’t going to play him & he’s just a depreciating asset?? That just makes no sense to me.

Just so we’re clear...

You’re NOT confident enough to make a wager on the Cavs without caveats, yes?

And for what it’s worth, Kevin Love could play the entire season (he won’t) and I would still be confident enough to bet on sub 30 wins.
 
Just so we’re clear...

You’re NOT confident enough to make a wager on the Cavs without caveats, yes?

And for what it’s worth, Kevin Love could play the entire season (he won’t) and I would still be confident enough to bet on sub 30 wins.
That’s right. Veterans drive wins and if the Cavs hold their vets out, either due to injury or just to rest them, that will affect their record. These are unknowns that we don’t know, which would have a great impact on their record.
 
It’s possible the Cavs decided to tank because a once in a generation type guy was in the draft.
 
That’s right. Veterans drive wins and if the Cavs hold their vets out, either due to injury or just to rest them, that will affect their record. These are unknowns that we don’t know, which would have a great impact on their record.

We have veterans that are going to drive wins? It's the same group of veterans as last year except subtract Rodney Hood, George Hill and Alec Burks and add Delly and Love. I doubt that’s enough veteran presence to make one worry about winning too many games. 30 wins will be a real nice accomplishment for this team (IMO) and we'd still keep our draft pick.
 
Playing our vets would have the opposite reaction. We’d probably win more playing the young guys.
 

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