2019 NFL Draft: Day 1 Discussion

[Randolphkeys]

Amazing how so many people who didn't really post much about the 2019 NFL draft much the past six months suddenly have some strong opinions and undoubtedly flawless research.

Let's all take a step away from the pistols, gentlemen. Posts have taken a personal bend all of a sudden and it isn't warranted at all. Dorsey knows what he is doing and at the end of the day, that is all that matters.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I just think we should all be happy that we don't live in the timeline where Dave Gettleman is the Browns GM.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

My stance on how Peppers was used as a rookie - and feel free to look back at posts from that season if you want - was that Gregg Williams drafted him to be a strong safety but realized he wasn't used as a safety in the professional football sense of the term in college. He played at the second level of the defense like a SAM nickel linebacker.

Gregg Williams was quoted after the draft as having Peppers as "his pick" and he tried to develop his weaknesses by playing him out of his comfort zone as a deep safety. Peppers indeed improved in that capacity, but during the grueling 0-16 season, it was a learning experience. He improved in the back end as the season progressed.

The hot take of course was that Gregg Williams didn't know what he is doing. I stand by the idea that Williams saw talent and since we were a tanking team without a free safety on the roster, he developed one of Peppers' most glaring weaknesses in regular season game action.

Peppers was a better player for it in year two... and a better trade chip in year two. It doesn't change the fact that in 2019 I think the Browns can find an equal value in the third round.

So if you want to punctuate your posts with "go fuck yourself" perhaps slow down and realize there is a well reasoned argument, even if you don't fully agree with it.

Btw, the "go fuck yourself" was directed towards the way Gregg used Peppers--not at you. I hope you didn't take it that way. I was referring to Gregg in the second person that whole paragraph. Also, it was a potshot at the incredible vulgarity that man spewed. I really hate the fake tough guy act. Gregg seems like the manager who doesn't even try to understand his people. Poor management skills and poor play calling just make for a shitshow of a defense.

If a coach was intentionally using a player in areas he's weak, rather than in the areas that player is going to succeed in, I think that speaks volumes and it makes me even more glad that Gregg is gone. That's probably one of the dumbest things I've heard--and I disagree with it to the core. The NFL is hard enough as it is coming in as a rookie, into an 0-16 organization. To not let you do what you're good at? Man, I don't know if I could play for someone like that.

Also, to your statement that Peppers was better for it in the second season, I'm going to disagree. I have Peppers as an elite defensive weapon in the league. Use him correctly and he can do things that really no other safety prospect can do. If you had no intention of allowing Peppers to do that, you had no business drafting him.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I consider Johnathan Abram, Darnell Savage (both already drafted), Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, Nasir Adderley, Will Harris, and Marquise Blair equal to Peppers in development and potential going into the draft.

Others really like Dionte Thompson and Tyler Rapp, I'll give Peppers the edge on those guys. Mind you Peppers after two training camps will likely look better this August than some rookies. Comparing a successful development project to players about to be drafted isn't apples to apples.

This is a good draft for strong safeties in my opinion.

You're much, much lower on Peppers than I am. I think Darnell Savage is the closest thing in this draft to Peppers, and I have Peppers as better than Savage at every facet of the game except playing zone coverage.

 

[Randolphkeys]

You're much, much lower on Peppers than I am. I think Darnell Savage is the closest thing in this draft to Peppers, and I have Peppers as better than Savage at every facet of the game except playing zone coverage.

I also forgot Malik Hooker. Make that a sixth strong safety that I have ranked evenly to Jabril Peppers was coming out of college. Again, let's not move the goal posts on my post: I answered who I felt is an equal prospect going into the draft as Peppers was coming out of college. It would be asinine to compare Peppers in year three to a rookie and unfair to any of the rookies in the conversation.

Peppers was successfully developed the past two seasons in pass coverage. He was, the first half of his rookie year, a liability. I was more irritated at Sachi for choosing not to carry a single free safety on the roster than Gregg Williams for playing him at free safety. Sufficient to say, the 0-16 year had plenty of disasterous outcomes... but forcing a rookie to improve in games was low on my list of errors.

I'm glad to hear you dangled your modifier.

 

[Jordan]

Keys and Rafters,

Forgetting the personal attacks, you guys are having a great and informative convo. Thanks!

 

[red.]

The Athletic's Dane Brugler reports several teams have "flagged" Washington S Taylor Rapp's hip injury.
This is the same hip flexor issue that cost Rapp to miss the Rose Bowl. He worked out at the Combine with it, but tested poorly. A highly productive three-year starter, Rapp should come off the board some time on Day 2.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

You're much, much lower on Peppers than I am. I think Darnell Savage is the closest thing in this draft to Peppers, and I have Peppers as better than Savage at every facet of the game except playing zone coverage.

No idea about Savage, but you draft guys based upon what you think they can become if developed properly. Regardless of how good Peppers was or wasn't at the time he entered the draft, I agree with you that he looks to be an impact defender, and ultimately, that's how you judge the pick.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I also forgot Malik Hooker. Make that a sixth strong safety that I have ranked evenly to Jabril Peppers was coming out of college. Again, let's not move the goal posts on my post: I answered who I felt is an equal prospect going into the draft as Peppers was coming out of college. It would be asinine to compare Peppers in year three to a rookie and unfair to any of the rookies in the conversation.

Peppers was successfully developed the past two seasons in pass coverage. He was, the first half of his rookie year, a liability. I was more irritated at Sachi for choosing not to carry a single free safety on the roster than Gregg Williams for playing him at free safety. Sufficient to say, the 0-16 year had plenty of disasterous outcomes... but forcing a rookie to improve in games was low on my list of errors.

I'm glad to hear you dangled your modifier.

No moving of posts. I'm referring to my grading of Peppers coming out--not year 3 pro Peppers. When I say I "have" him higher, that's looking down at his grades and comparing it to what Savage grades at. Apples to apples all day. I was super high on him before the draft, was super excited we drafted him, and still super high on him to this day. I'm really stubborn with my draft takes.

I'll go to bat for the prospect of Peppers coming out of college all day. My wet dream scenario was to get Peppers and Hooker together. If you wanted Peppers the weapon, you needed a safety who could play single high really well--and Hooker's the best prospect I've ever seen at it.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Keys and Rafters,

Forgetting the personal attacks, you guys are having a great and informative convo. Thanks!

There wasn't a personal attack! I swear!

Honestly, keys is probably the person I respect most on these boards. With gourimoko coming in second, and W&G third

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Rather than try and dig up my old posts about Peppers when we drafted him, here's a video that's pretty close to my evaluation of him:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW4HK4HXEi0

 

[Randolphkeys]

I'll go to bat for the prospect of Peppers coming out of college all day. My wet dream scenario was to get Peppers and Hooker together. If you wanted Peppers the weapon, you needed a safety who could play single high really well--and Hooker's the best prospect I've ever seen at it.

...And now it's my turn to screw up a post. I meant Amani Hooker out of Iowa. So many young Hookers, amirite?

Thanks for the compliment, BTW. Never had anything against ya.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

...And now it's my turn to screw up a post. I meant Amani Hooker out of Iowa. So many young Hookers, amirite?

Thanks for the compliment, BTW. Never had anything against ya.

That makes more sense.

I held back correcting you that Malik Hooker is a FS in every definition of the position.

It's just interesting. I have Savage rated as the only first round safety in the draft, and have him more as a late first rounder that I like, but squarely behind where I had Peppers pegged.

I don't have any other safeties sniffing Peppers--or heavens forbid Malik Hooker and Jamal Adams, who I had each ranked as top 5.

 

[raiders91sc]

People get so worked up after finding out months of the same mock draft were worthless, only to complain that their team took Mel Kiper's 2nd DE prospect instead of his 1st DE Prospect.

Draft season is so weird, man.

I'm here for it.

In the past I would agree with you. With the info and film you can get from ESPN, PFF, and NFL Network I don't agree. My oldest daughter(23 yrs) watches sports with me. My other 3 don't. She watched the draft with me last night and knows more about the players then I did 10 years ago. I think people are better educated about the prospects today then they have ever been.

 

[daddywags]

I liked Peppers out of college and didn't like how Williams played him in '17. But I think the experience back there helped ease Peppers into the pro game. Let him get used to the speed of the game and he could see every play unfold in front of him. I really think he's a breakout candidate this year and hated giving him up.