2020-2021 Cavs Season General Discussion

[DCTribefan]

I'm really happy that the Cavs again look like a competent team, but winning now is really bad. Is there a middle ground?

The draft is just too good. We might see teams tanking sooner rather than later. NOP, Kings, etc.. come to mind.

Three consecutive wins does not mean the Cavs are again a competent team.

 

[foucault87]

I want to be stuck on a playoff treadmill ala Utah, Indy or Portland. Consistent top 5 finishes where you can sneak into the finals if things break right (injuries, weird upsets, getting roasted by Josh Smith from 3). Ideally, yeah you are the Spurs and a consistent 50 win team/contender for 20 years.

What I dont want to be is where the Bucks where in the 2000s. They were at best an 8 seed and at worst an 11 seed. Never good enough to play deep into the playoffs or do anything meaningful and never bad enough to get a prospect worth giving a shit. Things turned around when they got a competent GM and new ownership, but the nightmare is to be stuck as a borderline playoff team forever. Recent Orlando team is another example.

Unfortunately, I think that is what we risk by blowing the draft this year. I love our young guys, but they are all complimentary players. I dont see any of them (besides sexton) being good enough to win games on his own. And you need at least two such guys now-a-days to even sniff mid level playoff seeds. Hell Indiana has 4 of those and they are maybe the 5th best team in the East.

I'm all for tanking this year out, getting a true blue chipper and building out around the Sexland/Allen/Okoro/Windler/Nance group. With a little more seasoning, maybe some MLE upgrades on a few Thad Young/Dj Augustin level players, that sounds like a 5 seed for a decade that i could enjoy watching. And who knows, maybe we catch LeBron on his retirement tour for one more championship run

 

[JJ_PR]

I want to be stuck on a playoff treadmill ala Utah, Indy or Portland. Consistent top 5 finishes where you can sneak into the finals if things break right (injuries, weird upsets, getting roasted by Josh Smith from 3). Ideally, yeah you are the Spurs and a consistent 50 win team/contender for 20 years.

What I dont want to be is where the Bucks where in the 2000s. They were at best an 8 seed and at worst an 11 seed. Never good enough to play deep into the playoffs or do anything meaningful and never bad enough to get a prospect worth giving a shit. Things turned around when they got a competent GM and new ownership, but the nightmare is to be stuck as a borderline playoff team forever. Recent Orlando team is another example.

Unfortunately, I think that is what we risk by blowing the draft this year. I love our young guys, but they are all complimentary players. I dont see any of them (besides sexton) being good enough to win games on his own. And you need at least two such guys now-a-days to even sniff mid level playoff seeds. Hell Indiana has 4 of those and they are maybe the 5th best team in the East.

I'm all for tanking this year out, getting a true blue chipper and building out around the Sexland/Allen/Okoro/Windler/Nance group. With a little more seasoning, maybe some MLE upgrades on a few Thad Young/Dj Augustin level players, that sounds like a 5 seed for a decade that i could enjoy watching. And who knows, maybe we catch LeBron on his retirement tour for one more championship run

LeBron would have an awesome supporting cast here if he came back.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I want to be stuck on a playoff treadmill ala Utah, Indy or Portland. Consistent top 5 finishes where you can sneak into the finals if things break right (injuries, weird upsets, getting roasted by Josh Smith from 3). Ideally, yeah you are the Spurs and a consistent 50 win team/contender for 20 years.

What I dont want to be is where the Bucks where in the 2000s. They were at best an 8 seed and at worst an 11 seed. Never good enough to play deep into the playoffs or do anything meaningful and never bad enough to get a prospect worth giving a shit. Things turned around when they got a competent GM and new ownership, but the nightmare is to be stuck as a borderline playoff team forever. Recent Orlando team is another example.

Unfortunately, I think that is what we risk by blowing the draft this year. I love our young guys, but they are all complimentary players. I dont see any of them (besides sexton) being good enough to win games on his own. And you need at least two such guys now-a-days to even sniff mid level playoff seeds. Hell Indiana has 4 of those and they are maybe the 5th best team in the East.

I'm all for tanking this year out, getting a true blue chipper and building out around the Sexland/Allen/Okoro/Windler/Nance group. With a little more seasoning, maybe some MLE upgrades on a few Thad Young/Dj Augustin level players, that sounds like a 5 seed for a decade that i could enjoy watching. And who knows, maybe we catch LeBron on his retirement tour for one more championship run

Unfortunately, "tanking this year out" doesn't guarantee us anything. There's a 47% chance the team with the worst record gets the 5th pick.

They aren't going to do that anyway. The Cavs have the 4th easiest schedule in the league in the second half. They have pulled it together and won three in a row, including on the road against 14-2 Philly, and that's with their third string power forward starting and no Cedi or Prince at small forward.

I think there's a decent chance the Cavs will play .500 ball in the second half. All those Western Conference teams they lost to in the recent road trip they won't be playing on the road the rest of this year.

 

[foucault87]

Unfortunately, "tanking this year out" doesn't guarantee us anything. There's a 47% chance the team with the worst record gets the 5th pick.

They aren't going to do that anyway. The Cavs have the 4th easiest schedule in the league in the second half. They have pulled it together and won three in a row, including on the road against 14-2 Philly, and that's with their third string power forward starting and no Cedi or Prince at small forward.

I think there's a decent chance the Cavs will play .500 ball in the second half. All those Western Conference teams they lost to in the recent road trip they won't be playing on the road the rest of this year.

Tanking doesn't guarantee a better pick, but it increases the probability of it. That should be reason enough, its all about maximizing your odds of success. And more importantly, it moves the floor of your pick up. Worst record in the league can pick no worse than 5th. This is looking like a 6-7 player draft, so ideally you have the 2nd or 3rd worst record are guaranteed a blue chipper.

I agree with you in that the Cavs are unlikely to tank much. I wouldn't mind them making the playoffs. In my mind, worst case scenario is they finish 11th in the East: no playoff experience for our young guys and worst possible odds. Hopefully they stay behind Washington and Orlando or completely accelerate to the 10 spot.

 

[CavsFan07]

Anyone else confused that Windler and Okoro are both listed at 6’6”.... but when given similar minutes, Windler is clearly the better rebounder.

How is Okoro so atrocious at rebounding? For the minutes he receives it’s like..... legendary bad

 

[CleveRocks]

Anyone else confused that Windler and Okoro are both listed at 6’6”.... but when given similar minutes, Windler is clearly the better rebounder.

How is Okoro so atrocious at rebounding? For the minutes he receives it’s like..... legendary bad

Idk, Windler looks taller.. it may be that Okoro's assignment is to cramp the other teams scorers, as opposed to position for rebounds..

 

[bigfoot5415]

I can't believe we lost that many games in a row and are only 2.5 GB

 

[ice cream man]

Despite being a rookie, being asked to guard to opposing team’s best perimeter player, and being, according to many posters here, too short. Okoro is still averaging more rebounds than Sexton, Garland.

If you’re gonna call out one, call out the others. Long rebounds are a thing. At least Okoro plays D.

 

[Derek]

Anyone else confused that Windler and Okoro are both listed at 6’6”.... but when given similar minutes, Windler is clearly the better rebounder.

How is Okoro so atrocious at rebounding? For the minutes he receives it’s like..... legendary bad

Windler was a great rebounder in college, so it should come as no surprise that he's been solid at the NBA level. He has a nose for the ball.

However, they are not both listed at 6'6".

Okoro is listed at 6'5" and is probably a shade under and just rounded up. Windler is a hair over 6'6", so there is probably a good 1.5' difference between the two.

If they still listed heights in shoes (as they did until very recently) Windler would be 6'8" and Okoro would be 6'6".

 

[weepinwillow]

I want to be stuck on a playoff treadmill ala Utah, Indy or Portland. Consistent top 5 finishes where you can sneak into the finals if things break right (injuries, weird upsets, getting roasted by Josh Smith from 3). Ideally, yeah you are the Spurs and a consistent 50 win team/contender for 20 years.

What I dont want to be is where the Bucks where in the 2000s. They were at best an 8 seed and at worst an 11 seed. Never good enough to play deep into the playoffs or do anything meaningful and never bad enough to get a prospect worth giving a shit. Things turned around when they got a competent GM and new ownership, but the nightmare is to be stuck as a borderline playoff team forever. Recent Orlando team is another example.

Unfortunately, I think that is what we risk by blowing the draft this year. I love our young guys, but they are all complimentary players. I dont see any of them (besides sexton) being good enough to win games on his own. And you need at least two such guys now-a-days to even sniff mid level playoff seeds. Hell Indiana has 4 of those and they are maybe the 5th best team in the East.

I'm all for tanking this year out, getting a true blue chipper and building out around the Sexland/Allen/Okoro/Windler/Nance group. With a little more seasoning, maybe some MLE upgrades on a few Thad Young/Dj Augustin level players, that sounds like a 5 seed for a decade that i could enjoy watching. And who knows, maybe we catch LeBron on his retirement tour for one more championship run

If they get decimated with injuries like they did earlier this year, then this could happen (sans Lebron ever coming back). more likely is they play hard, win at a 35-45% clip, maybe 50%, and we see some growth from Allen, Okoro, Windler, Sexton and Garland. There will be 6-8 good NBA players in the draft, and they will be chosen all over the board. You need a few things in place to be a team who always gets a good player in the draft:
1. A good scouting department
2. a good player development department and process
3. a stable organization.
The Jazz are running the west off the court right now with their main players chosen #13 and #27. The Bucks MVP was picked #15 and their 2nd best player was originally drafted in the 2nd round. Both these organizations are top notch and seemingly always find solid NBA players up and down the board or identify good players that are being undervalued on other squads.
My hope is this is who the Cavs are turning into.

 

[CavsFan07]

Windler was a great rebounder in college, so it should come as no surprise that he's been solid at the NBA level. He has a nose for the ball.

However, they are not both listed at 6'6".

Okoro is listed at 6'5" and is probably a shade under and just rounded up. Windler is a hair over 6'6", so there is probably a good 1.5' difference between the two.

If they still listed heights in shoes (as they did until very recently) Windler would be 6'8" and Okoro would be 6'6".

I was checking the stats on my Yahoo sports app and it had both listed at 6'6". So, yes, there are some sites that list them as the same height. Looking at the official Cavs site has Windler at 6'6" and Okoro at 6'5".

Sorry. Forgot to mention that being one inch shorter should make you an absolutely atrocious rebounder.

Of all the forwards in the NBA who average 30 minutes or more, Okoro is next to last only being beaten by Gary Trent Jr.

Perhaps we could say, "well he's a guard." Ok, that's fine. He's still near the very bottom. Even his College rebounding numbers were not good and he was clearly one of the most athletic players on the floor night in and night out.

First we said "oh it's because Drummond is out there scooping them up." Now the excuse is "well he guards the best team's player."

How about we just accept the fact that this dude is atrociously bad at rebounding? I don't know if he just has no rebounding instinct? Or he just doesn't go get the ball? I'm not sure.

 

[Derek]

I was checking the stats on my Yahoo sports app and it had both listed at 6'6". So, yes, there are some sites that list them as the same height. Looking at the official Cavs site has Windler at 6'6" and Okoro at 6'5".

Sorry. Forgot to mention that being one inch shorter should make you an absolutely atrocious rebounder.

Of all the forwards in the NBA who average 30 minutes or more, Okoro is next to last only being beaten by Gary Trent Jr.

Perhaps we could say, "well he's a guard." Ok, that's fine. He's still near the very bottom. Even his College rebounding numbers were not good and he was clearly one of the most athletic players on the floor night in and night out.

First we said "oh it's because Drummond is out there scooping them up." Now the excuse is "well he guards the best team's player."

How about we just accept the fact that this dude is atrociously bad at rebounding? I don't know if he just has no rebounding instinct? Or he just doesn't go get the ball? I'm not sure.

I don't believe I defended Okoro's lackluster rebounding at all in my post

 

[CavsFan07]

I don't believe I defended Okoro's lackluster rebounding at all in my post

I was sort of commenting on all posts below mine. I mainly quoted yours for the size talk. My apologies

 

[MikeOC33]

Okoro is playing more minutes than any other rookie, is tasked with guarding the other teams best perimeter player, was not a big time college scorer but is being drilled for not shooting more now, is responsible for being drafted as a sf yet is undersized, and now drilled for being an atrocious rebounder on a team that is generally a pretty good rebounding team without a set pf. Got it.