2020-2021 Cavs Season General Discussion

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NMCav

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Where are Forbes or Caruso supposed to play on a roster with Garland, Sexton, Okoro and Rubio?

My guess is Okoro would play more of his minutes at SF again if we signed either of those 2. But I don't think we sign either of them.
 

sailfish

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NMCav

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Good shooter, but Forbes probably won’t be worth the contract he signs. It would be great if Windler could step up and give us something.

Bigger issue for Forbes isn't the contract. Its his size. He's only 6-2. How do you fit him into the lineup when your splitting Guard time with Garland, Sexton, Rubio and Okoro? Where does he play? Too small for SF and we don't need another guard. Even if he does provide a skill the team needs he just doesn't fit.
 

foucault87

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Doug McBuckets is the best (realistic) wing on the market right? I mean I would love to get DDR to be a point forward next to our lineup but theres just no way he would sign for the MLE with a team thats not contending. I actually don't hate Doug's fit with our roster. He doesn't help the D at all but he is a good shooter and versatile offensive weapon that we could use to get more scoring pop. If you want a defensive minded wing...we can always dig up RHJ or MKG?
 

sailfish

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Doug McBuckets is the best (realistic) wing on the market right? I mean I would love to get DDR to be a point forward next to our lineup but theres just no way he would sign for the MLE with a team thats not contending. I actually don't hate Doug's fit with our roster. He doesn't help the D at all but he is a good shooter and versatile offensive weapon that we could use to get more scoring pop. If you want a defensive minded wing...we can always dig up RHJ or MKG?
I’m 48 and I can play better defense than McBuckets.
 

inliner311

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Prince was overpaid relative to his contract. That means we'd have had to add picks or take back an even worse contract to net positive value. The kind of guys not just you but everyone else here and every team in the NBA wants -- two-way wings who can knock down shots -- just aren't available for as crappy an asset as Prince's contract. We only got Rubio -- who is a better player than Prince -- was because he was making even more money than Prince, and we sweetened the pot with cash and a second-rounder. Further, whomever we would get at a two way wing would have to be good enough to justify taking minutes from Okoro, Nance, and Windler at the 3, and two of those guys need as many developmental minutes as they can.

There's no need to rush this. Rubio's contract is larger than was Prince's, and if you're talking sign and trade, that opens up more possibilities because it is an expiring. And though I think you have decided that Okoro isn't an SF, I don't thing the Cavs have concluded that yet. They want to give him those minutes this year to see how that goes. If it goes well, then we've got our two-way 3. If it doesn't look like it will work, then we'll obviously be moving Okoro to SG, and likely moving Sexton. And in that case, we'll then have Rubio's large expiring, Sexton, and whatever additional assets we want to toss into that bag to get a better two-way wing than we could have gotten with just the crap we gave up for Rubio.

We had to get a solid veteran PG. That's an even bigger need for this season than is an SF because we only had 1 1/2 PG's on the roster, and you simply can't go into a season that way. It's how we ended up last season, and that was a disaster.

MLE could have been used for a backup PG. They are still looking at point guards in Forbes and Caruso. The MLE is 9.5 million. Prince's contract was 12.5 this year but 15 million for 2021/22 which would be the number we would have used in a sign and trade with his contract going out. Yes assets would have had to be included but it's opportunity costs of one transaction over the other and how Koby decided to use them. MLE exception might have gotten us a lesser backup PG but the 2nd round pick and Prince's contract may have open the door for a better wing via sign and trade.

Edit: I think we had some miscommunication, I'm talking about using Prince's contract as a outgoing salary for a sign and trade in this year's free agency not using him as a sign and trade next summer.
 
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CleveRocks

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I’m 48 and I can play better defense than McBuckets.
I doubt it.. his defensive numbers are about average.. the only guy on our team with average or better defense is lamar stevens..

I am not saying he is Bruce bowen.. but he does not have to be great to be additive
 

foucault87

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The other option I could see is taking a cheap flyer on a guy like Winslow. Again, not a shooter but given his recent injury history, I bet we could get him for a pretty cheap deal (2/10 maybe?).
 

inliner311

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The other option I could see is taking a cheap flyer on a guy like Winslow. Again, not a shooter but given his recent injury history, I bet we could get him for a pretty cheap deal (2/10 maybe?).

I'm not sure if we can really bring in another below average 3pt shooter. That was my concern with bring in Rubio. It limits us with how we can approach free agency. We have to look for high level shooters and they are going to cost a premium in todays NBA.

I might still take a flyer on Winslow because we won't have better options and we need wings.
 
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NMCav

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What would it cost for the Cavaliers to bring in someone like Georgis Niang? 6-7 230 pound forward. Played limited minutes in Utah past 3 seasons and shot over 40% each season. Shot 42.5% on 4 Attempts per game in 16 MPG this past season. He offers shooting and size the team currently lacks. He makes more sense as a target then Forbes or Caruso. Only issue is he's played mostly PF for Utah. I'm not sure how he would do if given some minutes at SF.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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MLE could have been used for a backup PG. They are still looking at point guards in Forbes and Caruso. The MLE is 9.5 million.

I don't think either one of those guys is as good as Rubio, and there is absolutely no guarantee we could have signed either of them. The Lakers can (and likely will) match Caruso for anything at or less than the MLE, and Forbes 1) lacks length, and so pairs poorly with Sexton and Garland, and 2) isn't a point guard anyway. He's a worse distributor than is Sexton, and is really more of a shrimpy SG than even a combo guard. If we'd wait on Rubio, someone else nabs him, and then Caruso stays with the Lakers, we'd be completely screwed.

Prince's contract was 12.5 this year but 15 million for 2021/22 which would be the number we would have used in a sign and trade with his contract going out. Yes assets would have had to be included but it's opportunity costs of one transaction over the other and how Koby decided to use them. MLE exception might have gotten us a lesser backup PG but the 2nd round pick and Prince's contract may have open the door for a better wing via sign and trade.

I don't think there is a universe in which Prince's contract (which is a net negative) and a second round pick get us a wing that is anything more than a 10th player on the roster. You also should consider the possibility (almost 100%) that Koby did look into trades for a good wing and found there just weren't any takers. Remember, we know that the Cavs made Sexton available for trade offers, and I'd bet my left nut that 2-way wings were something in which we'd have been interested. We'd have had Prince's salary to help match as well. So what that tells me is that Sexton +Prince + 2nd round pick wasn't enough to get us a wing that Koby believed to be worth it.

It's extraordinarily easy to criticize a trade by assuming there was some better trade out there that could have been made. But you've at least got to get specific about who you thought was available, and why they'd have taken just Prince and a 2nd when nobody apparently was willing to give us what we wanted even when we tossed Sexton into the deal.
 
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CavsKermit

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I don't think either one of those guys is as good as Rubio, and there is absolutely no guarantee we could have signed either of them. The Lakers can (and likely will) match Caruso for anything at or less than the MLE, and Forbes 1) lacks length, and so pairs poorly with Sexton and Garland, and 2) isn't a point guard anyway. He's a worse distributor than is Sexton, and is really more of a shrimpy SG than even a combo guard. If we'd wait on Rubio, someone else nabs him, and then Caruso stays with the Lakers, we'd be completely screwed.



I don't think there is a universe in which Prince's contract (which is a net negative) and a second round pick get us a wing that is anything more than a 10th player on the roster. You also should consider the possibility (almost 100%) that Koby did look into trades for a good wing and found there just weren't any takers. Remember, we know that the Cavs made Sexton available for trade offers, and I'd bet my left nut that 2-way wings were something in which we'd have been interested. We'd have had Prince's salary to help match as well. So what that tells me is that Sexton +Prince + 2nd round pick wasn't enough to get us a wing that Koby believed to be worth it.

It's extraordinarily easy to criticize a trade by assuming there was some better trade out there that could have been made. But you've at least got to get specific about who you thought was available, and why they'd have taken just Prince and a 2nd when nobody apparently was willing to give us what we wanted even when we tossed Sexton into the deal.

Agree with all of this except I think the Cavs should sign Forbes. The Cavs should sign anyone who can reliably make a three point shot at this point. The only thing I didn't like about the Rubio trade was the fact that we shipped out our best three point shooter to make it happen.
 

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I’m 48 and I can play better defense than McBuckets.
But can you shoot as good as McBuckets! We are in dire need of a legit three ball shooter and he would be the best of the team as soon as walked through the door!
 

The Human Q-Tip

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Agree with all of this except I think the Cavs should sign Forbes. The Cavs should sign anyone who can reliably make a three point shot at this point. The only thing I didn't like about the Rubio trade was the fact that we shipped out our best three point shooter to make it happen.

I think Forbes would have the same problem as Prince -- there simply aren't any enough minutes for him. Forbes on the floor means that two of Garland, Sexton, and Rubio are on the bench, and I don't see that happening for more than 10 or so minutes/game.

The real issue for this team is getting more three point shooting from the frontcourt, and Forbes doesn't help us there.
 

foucault87

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Agree with all of this except I think the Cavs should sign Forbes. The Cavs should sign anyone who can reliably make a three point shot at this point. The only thing I didn't like about the Rubio trade was the fact that we shipped out our best three point shooter to make it happen.
I mean sure we can go dig up Jason Kapono or Andrew Goudelock. I don't think we can just sign any rando 3pt shooter if they are hard to fit otherwise. We already have one of those in Dotson. I would prefer we get guys who can actually play. I think our shooting this year will be a lot better from internal improvement anyway, its not like these players are static over the offseason. Healthy Windler, higher volume of attempts from Sexland, Mobley, Love for 20 mpg in 15 games, and Okoro with an offseason of practice tells me this is not going to be as big an issue as you think.
 
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