2020-21 Offseason Discussion

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sportscoach

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I'm not underestimating him at all. I think he's doing one helluva job, but he's down the pecking order a good bit. He's not a "stuff" guy and is the poster child for pitchability. I tell you what, I wouldn't be upset if they replaced Plutko with Morgan, but I don't want to lose a prospect with a higher ceiling. That's just my $.02.
Ceilings dont always mean success though as well. Morgan has a much better floor than a lot of the guys with the higher ceiling. Morgan will be taken in the Rule 5 draft if he isnt protected. I can guarentee that one. He would likely be one of the first picks in the Rule 5 draft since the bottom dwelling teams need starting pitcher. Orioles would probably take him (which would be the third prospect they took from us lol)
 

EdMonix11

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This is getting silly.

Eli Morgan will be protected.

He has the 3rd highest K/9 and swinging strike rate of all current Indians Minor League starting pitchers.

Anyone who doesn't think he has stuff doesn't know what they're talking about. He has three legit MLB pitches and a plus-plus out pitch.
 

sportscoach

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This is getting silly.

Eli Morgan will be protected.

He has the 3rd highest K/9 and swinging strike rate of all current Indians Minor League starting pitchers.

Anyone who doesn't think he has stuff doesn't know what they're talking about. He has three legit MLB pitches and a plus-plus out pitch.
If you had to choose between Morgan or like Oviedo, which way would you go?

Honestly I think some people are afraid of another Santander in a sense. We have a bunch of high potential arms that haven't played above A ball yet, in their early 20s.
 

EdMonix11

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If you had to choose between Morgan or like Oviedo, which way would you go?

Honestly I think some people are afraid of another Santander in a sense. We have a bunch of high potential arms that haven't played above A ball yet, in their early 20s.
Morgan.

Oviedo is an A ball pitcher and would get killed in the MLB and thus is unlikely to be selected.

Morgan could certainly pitch in the bigs next year in some capacity and would likely to be selected if not protected.
 

sportscoach

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Morgan.

Oviedo is an A ball pitcher and would get killed in the MLB and thus is unlikely to be selected.

Morgan could certainly pitch in the bigs next year in some capacity and would likely to be selected if not protected.
I mean they may open up a spot to protect one of those A ball pitchers (like they did with Mejia), but to not protect Morgan would be really weird in my mind as well. Hes too good of a prospect to not protect. Yes he may not have an A potential rating, but he for sure would crack the starting rotation of teams like the Orioles and some others like them that lack starting pitching.

I mean I have played enough hours of MLB console games to know that even there A potential guys can suck and C potential guys can put up all star numbers (I've even gotten a D potential to be an all star since all he could do was hit, so he was my DH).

In my mind part of the reason why the position players at times are struggling is because we fell in love with athleticism and potential and never got enough just plain old high floor guys (at least mostly). I mean on paper we could have put out the fastest OF in the history of baseball with the athletes we have. Well it didn't work at the end of the day in my personal opinion.
 

Steve_424

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My guess is AAA especially if he is working on changing to another position. But its not like he cannot earn it, I just dont expect it in 21
If the Indians have a youth movement and Jones isn't part of it in 2021 I'll be shocked.
 

Gson

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If you had to choose between Morgan or like Oviedo, which way would you go?

Honestly I think some people are afraid of another Santander in a sense. We have a bunch of high potential arms that haven't played above A ball yet, in their early 20s.
Easily... Oviedo would be protected over Eli Morgan.. no doubt about it.. mid 80's fastball throwing little guys get minor leaguers out in bunches.. Rarely does a guy like Morgan get through a ML lineup more than once.. and never more than twice... Eli Morgan is a Jeremy Sowers mirror.. Leaving him unprotected would save a spot for a guy who really does have major league starting pitching potential.. Morgan doesn't.
 

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This is getting silly.

Eli Morgan will be protected.

He has the 3rd highest K/9 and swinging strike rate of all current Indians Minor League starting pitchers.

Anyone who doesn't think he has stuff doesn't know what they're talking about. He has three legit MLB pitches and a plus-plus out pitch.
He's a weaker version of Aaron Civale, who was figured out by teams before the end of the year. Imo, you won't get much in trade for guys like this, team is better off running then out there are taking what your can get in production before they start getting bombed.
 

sportscoach

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If the Indians have a youth movement and Jones isn't part of it in 2021 I'll be shocked.
Jones in my mind will make his pro debut in 21, but I dont expect him mostly because of his lack of skill/experience on defense and the fact he has only a platoon split in hitting will limit his opportunities just yet. Plus since I am expecting Naquin, Johnson, Naylor, Bauers, all hit from the left side and being on the team. JRam has 3B, Those other four are ahead of Jones in LF, RF if he makes the transition to OF. I am not saying Jones couldn't do it since he has a good bat, but its very rare for someone to learn a new position in the pros and right away be good at it.
 

sportscoach

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Easily... Oviedo would be protected over Eli Morgan.. no doubt about it.. mid 80's fastball throwing little guys get minor leaguers out in bunches.. Rarely does a guy like Morgan get through a ML lineup more than once.. and never more than twice... Eli Morgan is a Jeremy Sowers mirror.. Leaving him unprotected would save a spot for a guy who really does have major league starting pitching potential.. Morgan doesn't.
Morgan throws as hard as Tomlin and has better secondary stuff. Tomlin has made a niche for himself as a spot starter/long reliever. So I expect Morgan to be able to at least do that in the pros. No one expects him to win a Cy Young, but a spot starter/long reliever is well within his capabilities. If you don't protect Morgan, you will lose him in a heartbeat in the Rule 5.
 

Steve_424

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Jones in my mind will make his pro debut in 21, but I dont expect him mostly because of his lack of skill/experience on defense and the fact he has only a platoon split in hitting will limit his opportunities just yet. Plus since I am expecting Naquin, Johnson, Naylor, Bauers, all hit from the left side and being on the team. JRam has 3B, Those other four are ahead of Jones in LF, RF if he makes the transition to OF. I am not saying Jones couldn't do it since he has a good bat, but its very rare for someone to learn a new position in the pros and right away be good at it.
None of Naquin, Johnson or Bauers should stand in the way of our top prospect if he's deemed ML-ready.
 

EdMonix11

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He's a weaker version of Aaron Civale, who was figured out by teams before the end of the year. Imo, you won't get much in trade for guys like this, team is better off running then out there are taking what your can get in production before they start getting bombed.
Morgan isn’t really like Civale at all. That’s kind of a lazy comparison. Its like looking at his velocity and making a generalization.

Civale has a big bag of tricks to get batters out. Morgan doesn’t have Civale’s repertoire but he does have a devastating out-pitch in his change up.


Easily... Oviedo would be protected over Eli Morgan.. no doubt about it.. mid 80's fastball throwing little guys get minor leaguers out in bunches.. Rarely does a guy like Morgan get through a ML lineup more than once.. and never more than twice... Eli Morgan is a Jeremy Sowers mirror..
Morgan is 89-92 and tops out a 94. Let’s at least be accurate....

Further, Morgan has well above average spin rate on the FB. Quite frankly the spin rate is elite for its velocity (Bauer units).
 
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Steve_424

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I know the Indians won't spend much in free agency, but given the cuts teams are making financially, I am kind of fascinated to see how free agency plays out for older veteran players. What is Carlos Santana worth on the open market?

A few others I'd be keeping an eye on to see if you can get them low-cost around Spring Training:

- Marwin Gonzalez - can play 1B/2B/3B/OF, which Tito would surely like
- Jason Kipnis - I know we didn't have interest last year, but if Cesar leaves they could do worse than a Kip reunion
- Asdrubal Cabrera - could be a good veteran bat to put at 2B if Cesar leaves
- Jay Bruce - probably a DH at this point, but maybe an option at 1B?
- Ryan Braun - Had a rough 2020 - maybe an option at 1B?
- Kevin Pillar - had a decent year but still not sure he'll have a ton of suitors
- Shin-Soo Choo - new platoon partner for Luplow?
- Edwin Encarnacion - Another reunion candidate as a 1B option?
 

sportscoach

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None of Naquin, Johnson or Bauers should stand in the way of our top prospect if he's deemed ML-ready.
Jones hasn't had any time above AA so on theory it's very unlikely he is 100% MLB ready at this very moment. He is due for some time at AAA especially learning a new position.

Now I mean I could be wrong and if he is MLB ready he should get playing time, but he is blocked at 3B and 3rd/4th at the current moment in LF/RF if that is the position he ends up going to. He has a lot to climb and prove before he will make the team. If he gets over that, then he deserves the spot.
 

Steve_424

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Jones hasn't had any time above AA so on theory it's very unlikely he is 100% MLB ready at this very moment. He is due for some time at AAA especially learning a new position.

Now I mean I could be wrong and if he is MLB ready he should get playing time, but he is blocked at 3B and 3rd/4th at the current moment in LF/RF if that is the position he ends up going to. He has a lot to climb and prove before he will make the team. If he gets over that, then he deserves the spot.
Again though, if you're going to trade Lindor and let Santana and Hernandez walk, you're going to need offense from somewhere. Naquin may not be back as well. You really want to see Bauers get another shot or Daniel Johnson?

I don't expect Jones to break camp with the club because of the position change and so they can manipulate service time, but I absolutely expect him to be in Cleveland by May at the latest.
 
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