2020-21 Offseason Discussion

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sportscoach

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Again though, if you're going to trade Lindor and let Santana and Hernandez walk, you're going to need offense from somewhere. Naquin may not be back as well. You really want to see Bauers get another shot or Daniel Johnson?

I don't expect Jones to break camp with the club because of the position change and so they can manipulate service time, but I absolutely expect him to be in Cleveland by May at the latest.
Naquin will be in Cleveland for spring training, if Bauers is on the 40 man for spring, then he will get a legit shot to make the team. Johnson is older plus is a legit RF candidate at the end of the day. All of them bat left handed so they are ahead of Jones at this current moment. Bauers, Johnson etc have all the tools needed to make it into the pros, they just need to put it together. I'm not saying Jones cannot outplay them and earn a spot, but those guys are ahead right now of him in the pecking order to make the 25 man roster, not in potential. We dont know how any of them have progressed so we shall see in spring.
 

Steve_424

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Naquin will be in Cleveland for spring training, if Bauers is on the 40 man for spring, then he will get a legit shot to make the team. Johnson is older plus is a legit RF candidate at the end of the day. All of them bat left handed so they are ahead of Jones at this current moment. Bauers, Johnson etc have all the tools needed to make it into the pros, they just need to put it together. I'm not saying Jones cannot outplay them and earn a spot, but those guys are ahead right now of him in the pecking order to make the 25 man roster, not in potential. We dont know how any of them have progressed so we shall see in spring.
It's hard for me to believe Bauers and Johnson, both 25 now, both of whom the Tribe didn't give a serious look to this season despite abysmal outfield production, are going to be ahead of Nolan Jones unless Jones just looks awful in the field. They're going to desperately need answers in the lineup next year and I'm far more confident in Jones than Johnson/Bauers. Maybe those guys start ahead of him so the Indians can add a year of service time, but it won't be long after that Jones takes over. I realize he hasn't played AAA, but neither did Alec Bohm, Sixto Sanchez, Joey Bart and others who made the leap this year. I fully believe Jones can make the same jump.
 

sportscoach

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It's hard for me to believe Bauers and Johnson, both 25 now, both of whom the Tribe didn't give a serious look to this season despite abysmal outfield production, are going to be ahead of Nolan Jones unless Jones just looks awful in the field. They're going to desperately need answers in the lineup next year and I'm far more confident in Jones than Johnson/Bauers. Maybe those guys start ahead of him so the Indians can add a year of service time, but it won't be long after that Jones takes over. I realize he hasn't played AAA, but neither did Alec Bohm, Sixto Sanchez, Joey Bart and others who made the leap this year. I fully believe Jones can make the same jump.
Bauers has the tool to be a solid big leaguer, he just had to rework his attitude and his swing. From what I can tell, he didn't get a look this season because he was doing that this season. If he isnt cut to protect talent by Nov. 20th then the brass feels he can make this roster. With him it was more of the, he needs to grow up and improve before the Indians would let him play in the pros again.

Johnson (who a lot of people are high on), is a strong candidate to get a chance to start in RF. He didn't get a great chance last season, but not sure how you can put a guy who hasn't played much in AA plus hasn't even played in the OF above him.

Right now in the string order, Jones is behind them, but it doesn't mean he cannot surpass them, just he has to prove a lot to do so.

Personally I want the best 25 (well now 26) out of camp and if Jones earns an everyday spot then I want him on the team, otherwise he needs to play everyday to get better.
 

CDAV45

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This is getting silly.

Eli Morgan will be protected.

He has the 3rd highest K/9 and swinging strike rate of all current Indians Minor League starting pitchers.

Anyone who doesn't think he has stuff doesn't know what they're talking about. He has three legit MLB pitches and a plus-plus out pitch.
He doesn't have "stuff" outside of a good change up. He's performed well and I like his pitchability, but it's unproven at the highest level where guys like him often struggle. He may very well get selected if not protected, but there is also a good chance that he doesn't stick and gets offered back. With the current SP depth, I'd take the chance of losing Morgan over a higher ceiling guy like Oviedo.
 

sportscoach

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He doesn't have "stuff" outside of a good change up. He's performed well and I like his pitchability, but it's unproven at the highest level where guys like him often struggle. He may very well get selected if not protected, but there is also a good chance that he doesn't stick and gets offered back. With the current SP depth, I'd take the chance of losing Morgan over a higher ceiling guy like Oviedo.
He has better stuff than Josh Tomlin and Tomlin has played a significant role for the Braves and Indians for many years. His floor is that of a guy like Josh Tomlin, aka the soft tossing crafty guy.

Morgan will be taken in the Rule 5 draft and will stay on the team the entire season without a doubt in my mind. You are forgetting because of the depth and talent we have, that how good our AAA rotation of starting pitchers is. Morgan is not an elite talent, but a legit one.

*sighs*
 

CDAV45

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He has better stuff than Josh Tomlin and Tomlin has played a significant role for the Braves and Indians for many years. His floor is that of a guy like Josh Tomlin, aka the soft tossing crafty guy.

Morgan will be taken in the Rule 5 draft and will stay on the team the entire season without a doubt in my mind. You are forgetting because of the depth and talent we have, that how good our AAA rotation of starting pitchers is. Morgan is not an elite talent, but a legit one.

*sighs*
That's exactly as I see him too. If he is taken I'm not as confident as you that he will stick, but it's certainly possible. I think a guy like Oviedo that reaches the upper 90's with his FB could be stashed in a BP for an entire season. Eli can pitch though so it's very possible that a team with no aspirations of a playoff appearance in 21 could keep him the entire season. That would be best for Eli IMO because he probably won't get much of an opportunity here.
 

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That's exactly as I see him too. If he is taken I'm not as confident as you that he will stick, but it's certainly possible. I think a guy like Oviedo that reaches the upper 90's with his FB could be stashed in a BP for an entire season. Eli can pitch though so it's very possible that a team with no aspirations of a playoff appearance in 21 could keep him the entire season. That would be best for Eli IMO because he probably won't get much of an opportunity here.
Pretty much spot on.. why would the Indians waste a coveted roster spot on a guy who "... won't get much of an opportunity here..."

The growth of real prospects in the Indians system is coming to the position of maximum density. Couple that with the squeezing of the number of spots in the minor leagues.. & this gives rise to the need to thin the herd.. Another recourse for a LOT of MiLB'ers will be to expand into international league play.. This could be a solid/spectacular strategy for "growing the game"..

We'll see..
 

sportscoach

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I go onto forums like this and provide comments.. you can agree.. or disagree.. that's your choice.. but this isn't that.. this is an attempt to show YOU'RE WRONG and I'M NOT..

In as much as you and everyone that posts here has no internal knowledge of the Indians budget, defining the limitations of cap space (there isn't a cap in MLB) wasn't offered or salient in my comments... Affordability can be measured and manipulated in several ways.. none of which start and end with: IT CAN'T BE DONE !!!! THE END..

The desire of this particular player playing in Cleveland was also not discussed or presented in my comment. The allegation of insider information was only addressed as "...if you chose to believe it..that's your choice." You and everyone who posts on this forum do not have an intimate knowledge of what this particular player or his representative is thing at this time in this moment as Michael Brantley enters into his age 34 season ( a season that saw Dr. Smooth have perhaps a wonderful year)... making this comment irrelevant.

If Cleveland offers HUMPTY DUMPTY the most money.. Humpty plays in Cleveland, most likely, but not absolutely. My narrative has zero to do with the money.. it has to do with the player.. or the kind of player Michael Brantley is & the point of my narrative..
Either way let's get the reply into the right thread.

There is an insider who does post here from time to time who always gets the stuff before others and honestly has always been accurate. So I am not going to doubt his words, so I guess I can leave it at that.

Plus Cleveland set there payroll "significantly" lower than in 20, for 21. Which puts getting a guy who will merit 10+ mil in a one year deal.

So we can agree to disagree then... I just trust my sources and opinion lol
 

Steve_424

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Bauers has the tool to be a solid big leaguer, he just had to rework his attitude and his swing. From what I can tell, he didn't get a look this season because he was doing that this season. If he isnt cut to protect talent by Nov. 20th then the brass feels he can make this roster. With him it was more of the, he needs to grow up and improve before the Indians would let him play in the pros again.

Johnson (who a lot of people are high on), is a strong candidate to get a chance to start in RF. He didn't get a great chance last season, but not sure how you can put a guy who hasn't played much in AA plus hasn't even played in the OF above him.

Right now in the string order, Jones is behind them, but it doesn't mean he cannot surpass them, just he has to prove a lot to do so.

Personally I want the best 25 (well now 26) out of camp and if Jones earns an everyday spot then I want him on the team, otherwise he needs to play everyday to get better.
Jake Bauers and Daniel Johnson certainly have the potential but obviously neither have broken through. Bradley Zimmer is in the same category (although he's 2 years older). Former prospects who just haven't made the leap for whatever reason.

I hope all 3 of those guys break through because it'd obviously be huge for the Indians. I'm just saying that neither Johnson/Bauers have done anything to warrant being "ahead" of Jones unless the Indians want to play the service time game and/or Jones struggles to transition to outfield (which is, admittedly, a possibility). But if the Super 2 passes and Jones is at least playable in the outfield, he'll be in Cleveland and neither of those guys will block him from doing so.

The most likely scenario IMO is Johnson and/or Bauers start the year in Cleveland, underperform, and are replaced by Jones in mid-May.
 

CDAV45

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Pretty much spot on.. why would the Indians waste a coveted roster spot on a guy who "... won't get much of an opportunity here..."

The growth of real prospects in the Indians system is coming to the position of maximum density. Couple that with the squeezing of the number of spots in the minor leagues.. & this gives rise to the need to thin the herd.. Another recourse for a LOT of MiLB'ers will be to expand into international league play.. This could be a solid/spectacular strategy for "growing the game"..

We'll see..
If you're a SP or a MIF you might find it difficult "squeezing" onto the 40 man unless you have some special talent. They don't have to be completely refined, but they have to be special IMO.
Jake Bauers and Daniel Johnson certainly have the potential but obviously neither have broken through. Bradley Zimmer is in the same category (although he's 2 years older). Former prospects who just haven't made the leap for whatever reason.

I hope all 3 of those guys break through because it'd obviously be huge for the Indians. I'm just saying that neither Johnson/Bauers have done anything to warrant being "ahead" of Jones unless the Indians want to play the service time game and/or Jones struggles to transition to outfield (which is, admittedly, a possibility). But if the Super 2 passes and Jones is at least playable in the outfield, he'll be in Cleveland and neither of those guys will block him from doing so.

The most likely scenario IMO is Johnson and/or Bauers start the year in Cleveland, underperform, and are replaced by Jones in mid-May.
Bauers was well thought of and a top 100 prospect when he came to Cleveland. Hopefully he can get back on track.

Johnson has done nothing but perform since turning pro. He's a more dynamic player than Jones when you factor in defense and baserunning. I expect them both to have an impact on this team very soon.

I've mentioned this before, but it's worth mentioning again. All of Jones, Bauers, Johnson, Naylor, Bradley, and Naquin are all LH hitters. That's a lot of LH hitters for 1B and corner OF duties.
 

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Question on Jose Ramirez RE Nolan Jones’ position. Is it out of the question the Hosey moves back to 2B to open 3B for Jones? It’s being ruled out here but has Tito or the FO actually stated that this won’t happen? Hosey played 2B as recently as 2018 and just last off season they discussed with him the option of playing either 2B or 3B (but not both) depending on free agency (they obviously signed Hernandez and he stayed at 3B). Did I miss something? If it were an option last year why not next year?


The Indians, however, are confident that no matter where they play Ramirez in 2020, he’ll perform well in the field.

“I think we’re comfortable that Jose can play both at a premium defensive quality,” said Francona. “I agree with him, going back and forth is hard, especially at this point in his career. Wherever he plays, he gonna be good.”
 

DerekG123

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Question on Jose Ramirez RE Nolan Jones’ position. Is it out of the question the Hosey moves back to 2B to open 3B for Jones? It’s being ruled out here but has Tito or the FO actually stated that this won’t happen? Hosey played 2B as recently as 2018 and just last off season they discussed with him the option of playing either 2B or 3B (but not both) depending on free agency (they obviously signed Hernandez and he stayed at 3B). Did I miss something? If it were an option last year why not next year?

Sounds like he isn't hung up about wherever he is placed.... just wants to be able to prepare for it in the offseason.
 

NEOLeo

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Sounds like he isn't hung up about wherever he is placed.... just wants to be able to prepare for it in the offseason.
I agree. Which is counter to the overall sentiment on this board that Jones has to change positions since Ramirez is locked into 3B. I think there’s a much greater chance that Ramirez plays 2B than Jones plays OF.
 

sportscoach

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I agree. Which is counter to the overall sentiment on this board that Jones has to change positions since Ramirez is locked into 3B. I think there’s a much greater chance that Ramirez plays 2B than Jones plays OF.
Jones hasn't been very good at 3B. Chisenhall put up better defensive numbers than Jones has and Chisenhall wasn't good enough at 3B to say there in the pros defensively. So I personally don't think Jones was gonna stick at 3B anyways.

Also a second factor in my mind is the fact we have a lot of guys coming up that are solid at 2B, that either have potential/could play 3B but haven't put very many innings over there. So if I was internally trying to replace a position, 2B would be one that we could do right now with decent production, not as well at 3B.

I would go with JRam at 3B with Jones in the OF (I think he profiles better that way) then give 2B and SS to one of the other guys in camp (hence why I am adding Clement to the 40 man)
 

CDAV45

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Question on Jose Ramirez RE Nolan Jones’ position. Is it out of the question the Hosey moves back to 2B to open 3B for Jones? It’s being ruled out here but has Tito or the FO actually stated that this won’t happen? Hosey played 2B as recently as 2018 and just last off season they discussed with him the option of playing either 2B or 3B (but not both) depending on free agency (they obviously signed Hernandez and he stayed at 3B). Did I miss something? If it were an option last year why not next year?

I don't know which question is more relevant, will JRam convert to 2B or can Jones play a capable 3B? I honestly don't know how legitimate the concern that Jones cannot play 3B are. If Jones' bat is ready then I think the question is if Jones plays LF or 1B or rotates with Naylor. Thing is, Miller might be more ready than Jones and is more than capable of playing a fine 2B.

Where I get stumped is when I try to figure how all of Jones, Naylor, and Bauers get ample playing time. If I was being forced to predict what would happen, I'd say that Jones will probably start the year in Columbus while Bauers and Naylor cover 1B and LF, but that's just a guess because I have no f'n clue what they intend to do TBH.
 
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