2020-21 Offseason Discussion

[bigfoot5415]

Uhhh the Indians have blue chip talent and it's on the way. Nolan Jones, Tyler Freeman, Owen Miller and Daniel Johnson are knocking on the door. We're probably still a year or two away from Gabriel Arias. I'm excited for Miller because he's the archetype the Indians have had success in developing in the past and he's what tipped the scales back in the Padres favor after the Indians told them they were out on Clevinger.

George Valara, Brayan Rocchio, Angel Martinez, Junior Sanquinton, Aaron Bracho and Bo Naylor in the pipeline after that.

We don't even need to talk about pitching, honestly. We're good in that department.... Though I will say I would really like to see Sam Hentges in the Indians pen next season.

I really don't think the Indians are hurting for position-player talent. Sure, it might look like it on the surface level (MLB) but it's like a puzzle-- you don't want to give up on certain guys in the MLB, you don't want to block certain guys in the minors, manipulating service time for others, etc.

Overall the organization is in fantastic shape....

What is your opening day lineup for next year & where do you think some of these guys will be come July? I cant see us having a huge youth movement early on.

 

[NorthCoastBias]

 

[MirORich]

Phew, just in time!

 

[TxBuckeye]

They should have traded Lindor last offseason. Now I think the play would be to trade Ramirez before he has another down year. They should be able to get some real prospects for him instead of the shit they've been getting.

There's nothing they can do to be a championship contender next season. The offense is horrific. If they trade Lindor for more guys that aren't ready or just aren't good, you're going to have what, Ramirez as you're only legitimate major league bat? Reyes is ok too I suppose. There's no way to fix that unless Dolan wants to spend a couple hundred million.

Not to mention the pitching. Obviously Bieber had a great year, but even that was a bit of a mirage. The Indians do an amazing job of getting everything they can out of guys that have mediocre stuff. Then they get to the postseason and they face good offenses that won't chase breaking balls out of the zone and make you beat them with your straight 93 mph fastball. And since they can't, the shitty offense has no chance to keep up.

So trade Ramirez. Trade Lindor. Blow it up. Try to get some young high end talent, not just guys they can make work with their organizational infrastructure.

lol, when has Ramirez had a down year? He is on a massively team friendly contract for 3 more years. Would be ridiculous to get rid of him. The FO was trying to extend Lindor. Ramirez is the guy they should be building around.

 

[DCTribefan]

Indians would be getting one pre-arbitration year out of all three of those guys. Not the Indians front office MO....

The Indians FO has moved some huge pieces recently- Bauer, Clevinger and Kluber- and they’ve all fetched a similar return. So I think we have a pretty good idea of what they’re looking to do trade-wise: young ML talent with very little service time, solid but unspectacular (maybe underrated) upper minors players and high upside lower minors prospects. It also seems like volume matters... i.e. four pieces as a return are better than two.

I expect a similar return for Frankie

How can you say the Kluber deal fetched a similar return to the Bauer and Clevenger deals?

 

[daddywags]

It will be an interesting offseason for many reasons. Assuming they let Hernandez and Santana walk and trade Lindor for young players and/or minor leaguers we will have exactly one bona fide proven major league hitter in our lineup. So do they bite the bullet and just accept a down year while trying out young guys or do they try to cobble together a decent MLB offense? IMO as bad as it was to have a shortened big league season the Tribe was hurt nearly as much by the inability to watch our minor leaguers try to take that next step forward.

 

[EdMonix11]

How can you say the Kluber deal fetched a similar return to the Bauer and Clevenger deals?

They got a young ML pitcher with very little service time and a young-ish depth OF with one pre-arb season of control for Corey Kluber. I'm looking at patterns here, not going tit for tat on the exact pieces.

How is that not in line with what they got for Bauer and Clevinger? It's less but it's still a very similar pattern of certain parts of the other deals-- especially with regards to the acquisition of guys like Reyes, Quantrill, Naylor, Hedges, Logan Allen, etc.

I mean, tack on a high-end lower level prospect from Texas and the Kluber deal follows almost the exact same pattern as the Bauer and Clevinger deals.

 

[sportscoach]

I'll be completely frank, we have no reason whatsoever to cut Roberto. I dont know why people are so quick to cut him. He didn't have a good season nor was he actually healthy either. He is still a gold glove catcher and so is Hedges. I think that will be the combo next season.

Carrasco of course will be back. I actually cannot see us cutting Naquin and DeShields. They didnt have great seasons, but its not like they are bad players nor super expensive either.

It will be hard to merit keeping Lindor. I dont think production wise he will be worth his contract. Also Santana and Hand likely will have their option year declined as well.

Now that being stated, Santana and Hand will both be offered a short term deal with lesser value. Hernandez will have some type of offer from us, so will O. Perez. Now, what type of price range I am unsure of, but I dont see why the Indians FO wouldn't want them back.

Now i have a hunch, if Lindor gets traded, its very possible we could move JRam as well. If our roster is void of those veteran guys like I can expect it to be, my guess is we will move JRam because of the super high value and the likelihood of us not being a heavy contender next season.

Also next season will have a deep tier 2 free agency list of veterans/guys who were due more money who got cut. My guess is we will have a ton of veterans in came with spring training invites (especially in the OF) to compete for a roster spot. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see a couple older veterans signed as stopgap types (aka 1-2 year contracts). We may see an EE type of older veteran with a good track record just on a one year deal.

I personally think if Lindor, Santana, Hand are all gone, I think we should capitalize on JRams value, extend Bieber, and bring in veterans to mix with the young guys and develop a new team nucleus.

 

[Chris]

I highly doubt anyone is looking at Lindor’s production in a pandemic season and letting that affect their trade value for him. They know what he is.

The other factors are fair. Consider my expectations tempered but losing him for pennies on he dollar will hurt, no matter what great players we have in A ball currently.

 

[CBBI]

I absolutely would not feel obligated if I was Antonetti to acquire players closer to the major leagues for Lindor at the expense of a better overall package of prospects that may be further away.

If they're shedding as much salary as everyone expects, I wouldn't try and chase wins in 2021.

But then again... assuming the playoffs remain expanded, I think the starting pitching is good enough and deep enough for the Indians to be competitive for one of the final playoff spots even if they get rid of all the high priced guys currently on the roster.

 

[OptimusPrime]

lol, when has Ramirez had a down year? He is on a massively team friendly contract for 3 more years. Would be ridiculous to get rid of him. The FO was trying to extend Lindor. Ramirez is the guy they should be building around.

2019. And build what around him? He'll be one of two or three guys in the lineup next year that are better than replacement level. His contract is the reason we should get a huge haul for him, more than we'll get for Lindor.

 

[DCTribefan]

I'll be completely frank, we have no reason whatsoever to cut Roberto. I dont know why people are so quick to cut him. He didn't have a good season nor was he actually healthy either. He is still a gold glove catcher and so is Hedges. I think that will be the combo next season.

Carrasco of course will be back. I actually cannot see us cutting Naquin and DeShields. They didnt have great seasons, but its not like they are bad players nor super expensive either.

It will be hard to merit keeping Lindor. I dont think production wise he will be worth his contract. Also Santana and Hand likely will have their option year declined as well.

Now that being stated, Santana and Hand will both be offered a short term deal with lesser value. Hernandez will have some type of offer from us, so will O. Perez. Now, what type of price range I am unsure of, but I dont see why the Indians FO wouldn't want them back.

Now i have a hunch, if Lindor gets traded, its very possible we could move JRam as well. If our roster is void of those veteran guys like I can expect it to be, my guess is we will move JRam because of the super high value and the likelihood of us not being a heavy contender next season.

Also next season will have a deep tier 2 free agency list of veterans/guys who were due more money who got cut. My guess is we will have a ton of veterans in came with spring training invites (especially in the OF) to compete for a roster spot. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see a couple older veterans signed as stopgap types (aka 1-2 year contracts). We may see an EE type of older veteran with a good track record just on a one year deal.

I personally think if Lindor, Santana, Hand are all gone, I think we should capitalize on JRams value, extend Bieber, and bring in veterans to mix with the young guys and develop a new team nucleus.

Um maybe because Naylor had more extra base hits in two post season games than Roberto had in all of the 2020 season. Both Naquin and DeShields got progressively worse as the season wore on. Also disagree on trading Jose. I think tribe should follow White Sox blueprint. They surrounded Abreu with young talent and after 1.5 down seasons, their future looks really bright.

 

[DCTribefan]

They got a young ML pitcher with very little service time and a young-ish depth OF with one pre-arb season of control for Corey Kluber. I'm looking at patterns here, not going tit for tat on the exact pieces.

How is that not in line with what they got for Bauer and Clevinger? It's less but it's still a very similar pattern of certain parts of the other deals-- especially with regards to the acquisition of guys like Reyes, Quantrill, Naylor, Hedges, Logan Allen, etc.

I mean, tack on a high-end lower level prospect from Texas and the Kluber deal follows almost the exact same pattern as the Bauer and Clevinger deals.

Agree on the pattern but that’s not what you originally wrote. You said they fetched similar returns. Now that you explained your rationale, it makes more sense.

 

[bob2the2nd]

What I think will happen

-Santana's 17.5M option is declined for 500K, saving 17M
-Hand's 10M option is declined for 1M, saving 9M
-Lindor is traded for multiple prospects and pre-arbitration players, saving approximately 17M
-Hernandez is not resigned, saving 6.25M
-Perez is not resigned, saving 3M
-Leon is not resigned, saving 2M
-DeShields is non-tendered, saving 1.85M
-Naquin is non-tendered, saving 1.45M

So right away that's 57.5M cut from the payroll immediately.

I would explore a team-friendly contract extension with Bieber, but otherwise that's about it.

If Francona retires, I would get rid of the entire coaching staff including Alomar, but I think they'd just give Sandy the job and go from there.

I think you are close, but i have some tweaks

I think they decline santana's option but try to bring him back for a lot less

I think hand's option is picked up and he is traded.

 

[daddywags]

I think you are close, but i have some tweaks

I think they decline santana's option but try to bring him back for a lot less

I think hand's option is picked up and he is traded.

I think those are both reasonable possibilities.