2020 Draft Prospects Thread

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AZ_

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Calling Fromm and the QB’s next year essentially bad QB’s before they even set foot on the field for this year is naive as hell.

Once again. Not one person thought Mayfield would be a great QB the year before he came out. And MOST thought he was going to be shit the year he did come out..

So my stance stands as is. You don’t know until 1) Their final college year so you can accurately gauge them and 2) until you see them on the NFL field...

Fromm could be the next great thing for all we know.
Building that straw man one post at a time.

Not sure he ever called them bad, but they've certainly got quite a ways to go developmentally. And nobody is completely dismissing them before setting foot on a field.

Seems more like you want to argue with yourself than with someone else, because nobody seems to be making these points.
 

Randolphkeys

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There is simply no reason to turn a thread about prospects to watch next college season into a fact-checking excursion into misses the past several college seasons.

A young player's potential at the next level is a fluid situation. For example, plenty of people around here we're excited about drafting Howard Wilson a few years ago. He suffered an injury a few weeks after the draft and now is out of the NFL, never having played a down.

Getting back on track, LSU is Defensive Back U. these days. Safety Grant Delpit and cornerback Kristian Fulton are the best coming out next year for the Tigers.
 

Triplethreat

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Building that straw man one post at a time.

Not sure he ever called them bad, but they've certainly got quite a ways to go developmentally. And nobody is completely dismissing them before setting foot on a field.

Seems more like you want to argue with yourself than with someone else, because nobody seems to be making these points.
The man said to flat out skip on drafting a QB at the top of the draft next year.

Which for a team desperate at QB makes little sense. Especially since we have no accurate gauge on the class at all at this point.
 

Urban

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There is simply no reason to turn a thread about prospects to watch next college season into a fact-checking excursion into misses the past several college seasons.

A young player's potential at the next level is a fluid situation. For example, plenty of people around here we're excited about drafting Howard Wilson a few years ago. He suffered an injury a few weeks after the draft and now is out of the NFL, never having played a down.

Getting back on track, LSU is Defensive Back U. these days. Safety Grant Delpit and cornerback Kristian Fulton are the best coming out next year for the Tigers.
Inserting my bias here, but Ohio State certainly has a claim to DB U with their recent history.

Since 2014:

x6 1st round: Bradley Roby, Eli Apple, Marshon Lattimore, Malik Hooker, Gareon Conley, Denzel Ward
x1 2nd round: Vonn Bell
x2 4th round: Doran Grant, Kendall Sheffield

Likely add Okudah, Arnette, and Wade if he declares to that list for next year.
 

blommen

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Raekwon Davis being as high on the TDN Mock is surprising to me, but I guess that's sorta what happens in a Draft that isn't historically loaded with DLine talent.

Davis is a fucking brick shithouse of a DT though, if he does fall in the first I could easily see the Browns targeting him to bolster the DLine depth chart.
 

AZ_

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The man said to flat out skip on drafting a QB at the top of the draft next year.

Which for a team desperate at QB makes little sense. Especially since we have no accurate gauge on the class at all at this point.
We have what we know now.

Perhaps you should take a time out until you're more ready to discuss. I promise you, nobody will judge you for NOT having an opinion on these guys for a while.
 

thedarkness2332

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Calling Fromm and the QB’s next year essentially bad QB’s before they even set foot on the field for this year is naive as hell.

Once again. Not one person thought Mayfield would be a great QB the year before he came out. And MOST thought he was going to be shit the year he did come out..

So my stance stands as is. You don’t know until 1) Their final college year so you can accurately gauge them and 2) until you see them on the NFL field...

Fromm could be the next great thing for all we know.
I'm not even calling Fromm, Tua, and Herbert bad. I'm not writing them off as prospects.

Rather, I'm merely basing it on what would be best for a team at the very top of the 2020 draft. Usually, they are more than a piece from contention.

You are one class away from Trevor Lawrence at that point. I think he's going to be the best QB prospect of the last 10 years when he comes out. In the meantime--one year--you can empty veteran contracts and gain as much draft capital and cap space as you can. This ensures your ability to get to the top of the draft in 2021.

If you are picking high next year, you're already bad--not near contention. You may as well embrace it whole-heartedly for one season, strip down, and try a one year get-right tank. Take a defensive end, tackle, or stud corner at the top of the 2020 draft. This is similar to what we did taking Myles Garrett. Then, plan to be bad enough to get Lawrence in 2021, as we did with Mayfield.

There's a reason the Browns future looks so bright right now. Half-ass rebuilding destroyed us for years. Fully tearing it down lead to our rapid ascent. The NFL draft is not a an NBA-style lottery system. You can take advantage of that fact by "earning" the #1 pick.

So, no, I don't hate Herbert or Fromm. I think they are fine prospects. I just think teams need to look in the mirror and be patient--this has more to do with me finding Lawrence to be generational.
 
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Triplethreat

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Its just an insanely bad take to say skip a QB and hope and pray your schedule is so brutal you somehow end up with a chance at landing Trevor Lawrence.

That’s not how this works.
 

Randolphkeys

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Inserting my bias here, but Ohio State certainly has a claim to DB U with their recent history.

Since 2014:

x6 1st round: Bradley Roby, Eli Apple, Marshon Lattimore, Malik Hooker, Gareon Conley, Denzel Ward
x1 2nd round: Vonn Bell
x2 4th round: Doran Grant, Kendall Sheffield

Likely add Okudah, Arnette, and Wade if he declares to that list for next year.
That isn't my nickname for LSU. The SEC has called them Defensive Back U. when Corey Webster starred there and went on to be the best DB for some very good NY Giants teams.

The Urban Meyer Era at OSU probably eclipsed LSU. That said, aside from our newest Browns cornerback they produced Eric Reid, Pat Pat, Honey Badger, Morris Claiborne, Jalen Mills, Brandon Taylor of the Chargers, and a number of other players who were pretty damn good DBs.

OSU has to show that they are still churning out top DBs now that Meyer is gone.
 

thedarkness2332

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Its just an insanely bad take to say skip a QB and hope and pray your schedule is so brutal you somehow end up with a chance at landing Trevor Lawrence.
You actually think the 2017 Browns went 0-16 because "their schedule was brutal?" Guess again. It was intentional.

That’s not how this works.
Actually, it is how it works. Weren't you paying attention? Did you not just watch Cleveland do it the past two seasons? In this case, you know the prize at the end of the rainbow.
 
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Out of the Rafters at the Q

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Calling Fromm and the QB’s next year essentially bad QB’s before they even set foot on the field for this year is naive as hell.

Once again. Not one person thought Mayfield would be a great QB the year before he came out. And MOST thought he was going to be shit the year he did come out..

So my stance stands as is. You don’t know until 1) Their final college year so you can accurately gauge them and 2) until you see them on the NFL field...

Fromm could be the next great thing for all we know.
  1. It's their current opinion that Fromm is bad.
  2. It sounds like you're arguing that we shouldn't discuss our current opinions of players because the 2019 season hasn't happened yet. I'm sure you don't actually mean that, right?
  3. You realize those opinions can change with what we see on the field this season, right?
  4. If you disagree with their opinion, just explain why--it's called conversation. It's why the forum exists...
 

AZ_

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Its just an insanely bad take to say skip a QB and hope and pray your schedule is so brutal you somehow end up with a chance at landing Trevor Lawrence.

That’s not how this works.
Its exactly how it works now.

Nearly across the sports world, people are going full tank and acquiring assets to build.
 

Douglar

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https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...ers-keep-jumping-onto-john-dorseys-radar.html

How NFL teams incorporate combine-style drills into their scouting isn’t always clear. But taking a closer look at John Dorsey’s draft picks during his time as a general manager reveals that players able to jump seem to get his attention.

This is connected to Dorsey’s belief that the NFL gets significantly quicker every five years, meaning that first steps after the snap become more important. When Dorsey was in Kansas City, the team developed a formula from combine data that he felt was an indicator for athleticism, and the jumping drills – which measure explosiveness -- seem to be part of that.

...

Seven of the remaining eight Browns draft picks [in 2018] excelled in the vertical and/or broad jump at pre-draft workouts. Six players finished in the top five in bothjump drills (or had pro day results that equated to a top-five finish at the combine).

Now in 2019, Dorsey draft picks continue to be jumpers.
  • Third-round pick Sione Takitaki was second in the broad jump (125 inches) and sixth in the vertical (37 inches) among linebackers at the combine.
  • Fifth-rounder Sheldrick Redwine was third in the broad (130) and fourth in the vertical (39) among safeties.
  • Offensive lineman Drew Forbes, a sixth-round pick, wasn’t at the combine, but his pro day numbers equate to third among linemen in the vertical (30.5) and fifth in the broad (107).
There are exceptions, of course.

Second-round pick Greedy Williams, who only did the 40-yard dash at the combine, had pro day jumps that would not have been among the top 15 cornerbacks. And fifth-round pick Mack Wilson, who was at the combine, was near the bottom among linebackers in both drills.

Being a jumper isn’t a requirement for NFL success. Marcus Peters, a two-time Pro Bowl cornerback and first-round pick of Dorsey in 2015, performed at middle-of-the-pack levels during his combine. And Antonio Callaway hardly stood out in the vertical and broad jumps in 2018.

But if you want to get an idea of players who might land with the Browns in 2020, history shows that the top jumpers at the combine are a good place to start.
 

Amherstcavsfan

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It's pretty clear, by now, Dorsey puts a ton of stock into athletic performance and the information that goes into it.

Production is a little hit or miss with Dorsey, but athleticism and certain qualifying examples are definitely a part of his evaluation process.

Patsko is on the right track, but I think he uses jumping to an extent, depending on the production. Corners don't necessarily need to be explosive, but straight line and agility is important. There is almost no correlation, that I know of, that relates any type of jumping in QB's.

But running backs, WR, edge, iDL, and linebackers it's pretty damn important.
 

thedarkness2332

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It's pretty clear, by now, Dorsey puts a ton of stock into athletic performance and the information that goes into it.

Production is a little hit or miss with Dorsey, but athleticism and certain qualifying examples are definitely a part of his evaluation process.

Patsko is on the right track, but I think he uses jumping to an extent, depending on the production. Corners don't necessarily need to be explosive, but straight line and agility is important. There is almost no correlation, that I know of, that relates any type of jumping in QB's.

But running backs, WR, edge, iDL, and linebackers it's pretty damn important.
Joe Thomas has discussed this before for offensive linemen as a measure of explosiveness. I believe the jumps, the 10 yard split, and the 3-cone have specifically been mentioned by him in evaluations of athletic testing for the big fellas.
 

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