2020 Minor League Thread

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Gson

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Derek - Just a word of explanation about GSon..

He is a knowledgeable poster/ fan but I think he would make more trades/deals than Jerry DiPoto & Trader Lane combined if given a chance to GM a real ballclub.
Correction..I'd trade more minor league players than DiPoto.. especially soft tossing runts that have such a small margin of error...
 

MadThinker88

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Correction..I'd trade more minor league players than DiPoto.. especially soft tossing runts that have such a small margin of error...
Maybe so (regarding the number of deals) but you do have a tendency to pull the trigger.. Perhaps its more often then you realize.

Its clear you do not favor "soft tossing runts that have such a small margin of error" but not all of them fall flat on their face. Every once in a while 1 pans out as a diamond in the rough & is effective for a team.
At this point you favor dealing away Eli Morgan so you must feel the Tribe has enough available depth to withstand another rash of injuries to the 2020 pitching staff like what happened to the 2019 pitching staff. Not sure I share that viewpoint but no one knows for sure.

Ok, so let's discuss dealing Morgan. We agree he is not going to bring a king's ransom in return, even if paired with another bit piece or 2. What is a return that is acceptable for you. Maybe I will agree with the target/ evaluation. Maybe I will suggest you are underselling him.

So, share your ideas. Suggesting 'Deal Morgan' is the easy part. Now propose some targets & reasoning..

EDIT:
I went & did some research & digging. I think I found a player some might like - Cameron Junker, RHP 10th rd pick (2019) by Pittsburgh out of Notre Dame.
Ran the idea of Morgan for Junker thru the Trade Simulator & it was accepted..
What are your thoughts Gson? Sportscoach? Derek?
 
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sportscoach

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I'm not really sure I see the comp. Morgan has struck out more than a guy per inning at every level and Tomlin only ever did that (or even came close) when he was 23-year-old reliever in advanced A.

Despite their difference in statures, his results are similar to Joe Musgrove, who looks like he could be a really solid member of any rotation.
To me I meant it as more of a floor type for him. A soft throwing pitcher that has command and just knows how to pitch. Now he has different skills than Tomlin, yes, but I see Morgan as a 5th starter who may come from the bullpen as well as a long man/spot starter.

I feel he will get to the bigs and get a chance to prove himself in due time. The question is does he stick?

@Gson

When I command a team in MLB the Show, I make more trades than anyone period especially if I control the Indians or another smaller market team since I usually move/trade guys around age 30 (depending on when their contract ends). But I rarely do anything in free agency except times when I have too (aka having to find stop gaps to replace free agent players with no setup backup).

Now in real life I could never be that way since I totally don't have any player loyalty. But rarely do I actually trade away prospects especially those who have potential but no value.

Morgan to me fits that bill, he is a command pitcher, who just knows how to pitch. He doesn't throw hard so that limits his ceiling and thus we wouldn't get anything back for him. Why would you trade a starting pitching prospect for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? It would be much better to keep him unless a team offers us more than he is worth in our minds.
 

Gson

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I'd trade Eli Morgan to Trader DiPoto and the Mariners right now.. for a guy like Noelvi Marte.. a Dominican SS that could be better than even his most ardent supporters think.. So?.. who is Noelvi Marte?

..that's the point.. he hasn't even stepped foot on US soil.. but, he's the kind of guy the Indians need to be acquiring for A+/AA, 12 to 14K/9 IP, guys w/ a FB that might reach 89 with the wind behind them.. Talent for the game.. is what is needed.. Noelvi has it.. Morgan.. wants it..
 

MadThinker88

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I'd trade Eli Morgan to Trader DiPoto and the Mariners right now.. for a guy like Noelvi Marte.. a Dominican SS that could be better than even his most ardent supporters think.. So?.. who is Noelvi Marte?

..that's the point.. he hasn't even stepped foot on US soil.. but, he's the kind of guy the Indians need to be acquiring for A+/AA, 12 to 14K/9 IP, guys w/ a FB that might reach 89 with the wind behind them.. Talent for the game.. is what is needed.. Noelvi has it.. Morgan.. wants it..
Nice idea but doubtful Dipoto agrees (at least for Eli Morgan)..
The Trade Simulator gives N Marte a value of 20.2. For comparison George Valera has a 20.4 value on the same site..

As an fyi K Law has Marte ranked 9th in the Seattle system. BP has him at #8. ESPN/ Kiley McDaniel has him at #4. Fangraphs at #6..
 
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dkbldev

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Nice idea but doubtful Dipoto agrees (at least for Eli Morgan)..
The Trade Simulator gives N Marte a value of 20.2. For comparison George Valera has a 20.4 value on the same site..

As an fyi K Law has Marte ranked 9th in the Seattle system. BP has him at #8. ESPN/ Kiley McDaniel has him at #4. Fangraphs at #6..
Can you post a link of the trade simulator
 

Tondo

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Different board, same Gson from the Al Davis school of talent evaluation.

He would have probably traded Civale for a bag of nuts one year ago. Civale's FB was (wrongfully) rated as a 40 FV pitch too.

Here's FG report on Civale going into 2019. You could copy and paste it for Morgan:

"Civale does not miss many bats because he has limited fastball velocity, but he’s a high-volume strike thrower with excellent secondary stuff, including one of the best curveball spin rates in the minors. He draws from a spacious bag of tricks to get hitters out, and has now had success at the upper levels of the minors with limited velo, so we’re buying that he can make things work as a fifth starter."
 
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Tondo

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Sure. No problem.

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/

Its a free site. The site was launched last year and was an interesting discussion point across many chat boards.
Not being part of RCF until late Sept 2019 I was unaware many here were unaware of it.
That site is still trash for minor league value. Tyler Krieger and Angel Lopez have more trade value than Morgan in their simulator.
 

Derek

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Different board, same Gson from the Al Davis school of talent evaluation.

He would have probably traded Civale for a bag of nuts one year ago. Civale's FB was (wrongfully) rated as a 40 FV pitch too.

Here's FG report on Civale going into 2019. You could copy and paste it for Morgan:

"Civale does not miss many bats because he has limited fastball velocity, but he’s a high-volume strike thrower with excellent secondary stuff, including one of the best curveball spin rates in the minors. He draws from a spacious bag of tricks to get hitters out, and has now had success at the upper levels of the minors with limited velo, so we’re buying that he can make things work as a fifth starter."
I’d actually be surprised if you can find a scouting report that says Morgan doesn’t miss many bats. Unlike Civale, he’s actually missed a ton at every level.

Hopefully it’ll continue in AAA/The Majors.
 

MadThinker88

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That site is still trash for minor league value. Tyler Krieger and Angel Lopez have more trade value than Morgan in their simulator.
I'm not saying that site is perfect. It has many faults (some like you pointed out). But I will say its a heck of lot better than previous attempts & its better than nothing at all.

From spending some time on a Brewer board last summer, I know that Trade site founder/ creator takes feedback seriously & has been working with the site staff to continually improve the product (the trade simulator).
 

Gson

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and now with the strawman.. you can't make these guys the same by C & P'ing..

-eli morgan Bats/Throws: R/R Ht: 5' 10" Wt: 190
-aaron civale: Bats/Throws: R/R Ht: 6' 2" Wt: 215

yeah.. these are not the same guy.. someday, when a light goes on.. tondo will realize that saving the day vicariously by fixing the broken and/or rooting for the underdog seldom works.. and never works long term.. There is a reason ML pitchers become ML pitchers.. and it starts with their physical attributes and abilities.. smh..
 
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Gson

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Sure. No problem.

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/

Its a free site. The site was launched last year and was an interesting discussion point across many chat boards.
Not being part of RCF until late Sept 2019 I was unaware many here were unaware of it.
This is a good site.. it numerically defines current and future valuations.. the values used may be considered inaccurate.. but, it's consistent.. If you plug in the Indians as the site's trade suggestions.. quite a few are just plain awful in spite of the valuation.. others are worth serious consideration..

Any favorites you see?.. perhaps the Aristides Aquino trade suggestion?
 

Derek

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and now with the strawman.. you can't make these guys the same by C & P'ing..

-eli morgan Bats/Throws: R/R Ht: 5' 10" Wt: 190
-aaron civale: Bats/Throws: R/R Ht: 6' 2" Wt: 215

yeah.. these are not the same guy.. someday, when a light goes on.. tondo will realize that saving the saving the day vicariously by fixing the broken and/or rooting for the underdog seldom works.. and never works long term.. There is a reason ML pitchers become ML pitchers.. and it starts with their physical attributes and abilities.. smh..
If all you're going to look at is height and weight, then I can't take you seriously as an evaluator. Production matters. Eli Morgan was the most productive pitcher in our minor league system last year. If he can even become an occasional spot starter that bounces between AAA and the majors with mixed results, there's value in that depth. Not every guy needs to turn into Bieber.

If you want to point to the actual red flags like his increased walk rate in AA, or that as an extreme fly ball pitcher, he's unlikely to maintain his low HR/FB%, go for it. However, ruling guys out based on their stature is outdated.

I'm not betting on Morgan to become anything more than a depth guy, but he has a ceiling higher than that. There's certainly no reason to trade him unless it's as part of a package for immediate MLB help.
 
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