2020 Minor League Thread

[BimboColesHair]

Heard the Indians pitching has been so dominant that there have been multiple times where certain outfielders go the entire game without touching the ball.

Clase has pitched twice now....

Can confirm.

They have had to practice after games on a few occasions because guys need more reps, especially with them moving their MI crop all over the diamond.

And it isn't being done in the style of Bieber, Plesac, and Civale. Every day its a different power arm that's lighting up the gun. Different kind of animal in their pitching at the lower levels right now. They can run out Hankins, Vargas, Oviedo, Torres, Burns, Gaddis, Morillo and all of them will pump 95-100. And they don't even have Espino pitching vs other teams and he might be the best power arm of the lot.

Also, Cantillo has a chance to be the best piece of the Clevinger trade. His 2019 season wasn't a blip. Legit 93-95 with his FB, plus-plus wipeout change. He's able to add a little velocity and tighten up his breaking ball, which this organization does better than anyone else with pitching prospects, and I think he ends up the best piece.

 

[MadThinker88]

Hey Bimbo - please share your thoughts on Oviedo & Carlos Vargas. Are they worthy of being added to the 40 man roster? Do you think they will be added?? Why/ Why not??? Thanks in advance..

 

[CDAV45]

Can confirm.

They have had to practice after games on a few occasions because guys need more reps, especially with them moving their MI crop all over the diamond.

And it isn't being done in the style of Bieber, Plesac, and Civale. Every day its a different power arm that's lighting up the gun. Different kind of animal in their pitching at the lower levels right now. They can run out Hankins, Vargas, Oviedo, Torres, Burns, Gaddis, Morillo and all of them will pump 95-100. And they don't even have Espino pitching vs other teams and he might be the best power arm of the lot.

Also, Cantillo has a chance to be the best piece of the Clevinger trade. His 2019 season wasn't a blip. Legit 93-95 with his FB, plus-plus wipeout change. He's able to add a little velocity and tighten up his breaking ball, which this organization does better than anyone else with pitching prospects, and I think he ends up the best piece.

Great info Bimbo, thanks! Mad had a good question about Oviedo and Vargas. What are your thoughts?

 

[Gson]

Can confirm.

They have had to practice after games on a few occasions because guys need more reps, especially with them moving their MI crop all over the diamond.

And it isn't being done in the style of Bieber, Plesac, and Civale. Every day its a different power arm that's lighting up the gun. Different kind of animal in their pitching at the lower levels right now. They can run out Hankins, Vargas, Oviedo, Torres, Burns, Gaddis, Morillo and all of them will pump 95-100. And they don't even have Espino pitching vs other teams and he might be the best power arm of the lot.

Also, Cantillo has a chance to be the best piece of the Clevinger trade. His 2019 season wasn't a blip. Legit 93-95 with his FB, plus-plus wipeout change. He's able to add a little velocity and tighten up his breaking ball, which this organization does better than anyone else with pitching prospects, and I think he ends up the best piece.

Carlos Vargas is an especially talented "big arm" SP candidate.. With all the other arms.. he might be squeezed into a pen role.. but, what a pen !!..

Tell us more about Sergio Morillo.. very little has been printed about him other than the typical bio stuff in general prospect outlines and information..

Burning River: Sergio Morillo didn’t have quite the inning load of the regulars on Indians 2, but that’s because both pitchers started their years in the Dominican Summer League. Morillo made two starts with the DSL Indians/Brewers before a sideways promotion put him with the DSL Indians for six more appearances. He looked good enough there for a real promotion to the AZL where he started for Indians 2 and posted a 0.84 ERA in 21.1 innings giving him a 1.66 ERA overall in 43.1 innings between the three teams. His strike out numbers were better in the Dominican, but his walk numbers improved upon reaching Arizona.

Baseball Ref: https://www.baseball-reference.com/...n=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-

How does Morillo compare to a more celebrated draft choice like Lenny Torres?..

 

[EdMonix11]

Where are the stats at? It be nice to see them

No stats are publicly available.

Instructs are weird. It's not really baseball so stats aren't really worth any sort of value.

You have guys playing different positions-- I know the Indians had something like 5 SS on the field playing different positions at one point. Pitchers start innings with a runner on base. Teams can end the inning if the pitcher reaches the pitch count regardless of the number of outs, on-base situation and score. You have pitchers throwing on the warning track while the game is going on. It's definitely not baseball in a traditional sense so stats are distributed more word-of-mouth than anything else.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Hey Bimbo - please share your thoughts on Oviedo & Carlos Vargas. Are they worthy of being added to the 40 man roster? Do you think they will be added?? Why/ Why not??? Thanks in advance..

I can see Vargas being added to the 40 man. But I don’t think Oviedo would be grabbed in the Rule 5. Does that mean a tanking team with nothing to lose wouldn’t take him, a la Santander to the Orioles? Always the possibility. In fact, I think we might start to see a few more “not quite ready” starting pitchers poached from the Indians ranks than normal because of the success of Bieber, Civale, and Plesac “out of nowhere”. Cat is fully out of the bag on what this organization is doing developing starting pitchers who aren’t highly touted.

But too many guys ahead of them for the both of them to be added. Only way I see it happening is if we sell off a ton of players at the MLB level and do a short term rebuild, which it isn’t sounding like that’s the plan.

As for my thoughts, 2 completely different built pitchers.

Oviedo is more refined, can be a power arm or a control pitcher. His back is a serious question moving forward, but he can sit 92-94 and use his curveball exclusively one game, then sit 96-98 and use his change up the next. He tweaked his mechanics prior to this season in an effort to maybe prohibit flaring up his back problems and it has him more consistent with his velocity sitting 94-98, but still need to see it in games. His control fell off a cliff last year when he tried to pitch through flare ups.

Vargas is a pure power arm. Sits 96-98, touches 101, power wipeout slider. But with that kind of stuff comes the control and inconsistent mechanics problems that plague most young power arms in the lower levels. His ceiling is huge if he refines his stuff, becomes more consistent with his mechanics and approach, and finds a 3rd pitch (there is some hope with his change up). Someone out there might be salivating about stashing his kind of arm in their bullpen for a year while getting him further developed as a starter if the Indians don’t protect him.

 

[Kevalier]

I can see Vargas being added to the 40 man. But I don’t think Oviedo would be grabbed in the Rule 5. Does that mean a tanking team with nothing to lose wouldn’t take him, a la Santander to the Orioles? Always the possibility. In fact, I think we might start to see a few more “not quite ready” starting pitchers poached from the Indians ranks than normal because of the success of Bieber, Civale, and Plesac “out of nowhere”. Cat is fully out of the bag on what this organization is doing developing starting pitchers who aren’t highly touted.

But too many guys ahead of them for the both of them to be added. Only way I see it happening is if we sell off a ton of players at the MLB level and do a short term rebuild, which it isn’t sounding like that’s the plan.

As for my thoughts, 2 completely different built pitchers.

Oviedo is more refined, can be a power arm or a control pitcher. His back is a serious question moving forward, but he can sit 92-94 and use his curveball exclusively one game, then sit 96-98 and use his change up the next. He tweaked his mechanics prior to this season in an effort to maybe prohibit flaring up his back problems and it has him more consistent with his velocity sitting 94-98, but still need to see it in games. His control fell off a cliff last year when he tried to pitch through flare ups.

Vargas is a pure power arm. Sits 96-98, touches 101, power wipeout slider. But with that kind of stuff comes the control and inconsistent mechanics problems that plague most young power arms in the lower levels. His ceiling is huge if he refines his stuff, becomes more consistent with his mechanics and approach, and finds a 3rd pitch (there is some hope with his change up). Someone out there might be salivating about stashing his kind of arm in their bullpen for a year while getting him further developed as a starter if the Indians don’t protect him.

I don’t mean to poke and prod, but have you heard anything on a potential ownership change in the near future? I mentioned this the other day in a separate thread that more than one person has told me that Dolan is looking to sell the majority stake of the team sooner than later.

 

[Gson]

I can see Vargas being added to the 40 man. But I don’t think Oviedo would be grabbed in the Rule 5. Does that mean a tanking team with nothing to lose wouldn’t take him, a la Santander to the Orioles? Always the possibility. In fact, I think we might start to see a few more “not quite ready” starting pitchers poached from the Indians ranks than normal because of the success of Bieber, Civale, and Plesac “out of nowhere”. Cat is fully out of the bag on what this organization is doing developing starting pitchers who aren’t highly touted.

But too many guys ahead of them for the both of them to be added. Only way I see it happening is if we sell off a ton of players at the MLB level and do a short term rebuild, which it isn’t sounding like that’s the plan.

As for my thoughts, 2 completely different built pitchers.

Oviedo is more refined, can be a power arm or a control pitcher. His back is a serious question moving forward, but he can sit 92-94 and use his curveball exclusively one game, then sit 96-98 and use his change up the next. He tweaked his mechanics prior to this season in an effort to maybe prohibit flaring up his back problems and it has him more consistent with his velocity sitting 94-98, but still need to see it in games. His control fell off a cliff last year when he tried to pitch through flare ups.

Vargas is a pure power arm. Sits 96-98, touches 101, power wipeout slider. But with that kind of stuff comes the control and inconsistent mechanics problems that plague most young power arms in the lower levels. His ceiling is huge if he refines his stuff, becomes more consistent with his mechanics and approach, and finds a 3rd pitch (there is some hope with his change up). Someone out there might be salivating about stashing his kind of arm in their bullpen for a year while getting him further developed as a starter if the Indians don’t protect him.

Hmm....

I don't see Vargas as a starter.. The last time I saw him pitch.. his command was fleeting.. his delivery isn't as repeatable as someone with his athleticism should be.. Make no mistake.. he has a ML fastball that runs into RHH's when he's "attempting" to work on the inside half of the plate. What I saw.. is that he has a tendency to slow his arm when he's throwing the slider... even though it has good depth and breaks in two planes.. Lastly, while he's a strong kid, he sometimes pulls the pitch across his landing foot.. giving his motion a bit of what I'll call a cross fire.. While not always.. this may result in some elbow/shoulder issues.. and good reason for him to be considered for the pen.. Granted, this was in 2018/19 that I saw him.. With just the FB/Slider.. he can get ML'ers out.. If he can work on what I thought was a circle change.. he could be a LOT better, especially against LHH's.. He is absolutely worthy of being protected, imho..

Oviedo is a BIG guy.. bigger than whatever the bio information says.... but.. kind of stiff. I could see him being unprotected.. and being selected.. I D K who would want HIM on their active roster for an entire year.. but, a hybrid soft tissue injury (his back?) could spread a year of development around enough for the acquiring team to keep him.. There would be a strong likelihood that even if he's unprotected and picked.. he'd be returned..

Thanks for the comments..

Thoughts?

 

[BimboColesHair]

I don’t mean to poke and prod, but have you heard anything on a potential ownership change in the near future? I mentioned this the other day in a separate thread that more than one person has told me that Dolan is looking to sell the majority stake of the team sooner than later.

Yeah, I’ve been mentioning it in here for about a year that Sherman was in line to take over majority ownership, prior to the Royals suddenly becoming available. That was the only franchise he would have left here for.

Dolan’s are looking to still be owners, but not the majority owners. Their priorities remain keeping the team in Cleveland and making the franchise attractive to investors. Think they cash out following the new TV deal. That’s been the hot back channel topic all year long, that they’re looking to sell most of their stake.

A bit of Pandora’s box opened up when Sherman bought the Royals, as the Dolan’s and the Indians in general are usually tight lipped and it’s hard to get anything out of them. There was a dump of insider info spilt right after that.

Just my opinion. They trim a bit of salary, have an intriguing payroll and young talent pool, see a hefty valuation bump following a TV deal and cash out.

 

[LL3]

Yeah, I’ve been mentioning it in here for about a year that Sherman was in line to take over majority ownership, prior to the Royals suddenly becoming available. That was the only franchise he would have left here for.

Dolan’s are looking to still be owners, but not the majority owners. Their priorities remain keeping the team in Cleveland and making the franchise attractive to investors. Think they cash out following the new TV deal. That’s been the hot back channel topic all year long, that they’re looking to sell most of their stake.

A bit of Pandora’s box opened up when Sherman bought the Royals, as the Dolan’s and the Indians in general are usually tight lipped and it’s hard to get anything out of them. There was a dump of insider info spilt right after that.

Just my opinion. They trim a bit of salary, have an intriguing payroll and young talent pool, see a hefty valuation bump following a TV deal and cash out.

Not a small thing -- now and over the years.

 

[EdMonix11]

 

[xmasbuck]

these new Internet Sports are crazy

 

[MadThinker88]

I wanted to share an article (free) & some info for the Tribe fans around here.

https://prospects365.com/2020/10/26/the-all-buy-team-of-the-2020-2021-offseason/

While there is fantasy slant, the base premise remains: to be a good fantasy player, there is a level of desired performance in the real world level. 3 Tribe players on the list: Luis Oviedo, Zach Plesac & Lenny Torres. Those write-ups are included here. Enjoy.

Luis Oviedo, SP, CLE. Age: 21

This train should have left the tracks in 2020, but Oviedo’s official return to relevance was pushed to 2021 following the cancellation of the minor league season. The right-hander pitched through a back injury in the Midwest League in 2019, with his sinker plummeting to the high-80s instead of the 92-95 T98 he’s produced at instructs recently. I’m not in love with the arm action as he’s often late which hinders his command and leaves him susceptible to arm ailments, but the arsenal consists of four average-or-better pitches. Oviedo is rarely found on prospect lists that go as deep as 400-500. This is an inefficiency. I trust the Indians to eventually shorten the 21-year-old’s arm action, and good health should lead to a surge throughout the minor league season next year.

Zach Plesac, SP, CLE. Age: 25

Plesac pitched well enough throughout the sprint season that he’ll be a consensus top-100 pick in redraft leagues in 2021. But that’s not high enough. Any amount of research will tell you that—waddaya know—Plesac threw his worst pitch less and his best pitches more in 2020. What a noble thought! The right-hander cut his four-seam usage by 13%, replacing it with increases in slider (25.9 SwStr%, .129 xBA) and changeup (18.9 SwStr%, .206 xBA) usage. The usage optimization—paired with a focus on mechanical repeatability and improved command—led to a true breakout from the 25-year-old, who finished the season as the 64th-ranked fantasy player. Detractors will claim they need a bigger sample of success before investing a top-100 pick on Plesac, but I think it’s just as likely he takes another step forward in 2021 than head in the opposite direction. He’ll be completely comfortable with his evolved pitch usage, and he’ll still be pitching for a good team that allows its starting pitchers to pitch deep into games. I doubt I draft Plesac as the staff ace of any of my fantasy teams next season, but I’ll have no qualms riding with him as my SP2.

Lenny Torres Jr., SP, CLE. Age: 20

Torres made the VIP portion (#201-250) of my preseason prospect list in 2019. Then, he underwent Tommy John surgery in May 2019 before ever throwing a competitive pitch. Now healthy once again, the right-hander recently topped-out at 97 mph versus live batters at Indians instructs. A sandwich round pick in 2018, Torres is a superb athlete who features a three-pitch arsenal including a fastball, slider and changeup. There’s still some rawness within this profile thanks to the 20-year-old being a cold weather prep pitcher who’s only thrown 15.1 competitive IP since being drafted three summers ago. However, we continue to bet on elite athletes, especially when they’re buried on prospect lists. If the Indians can assist a healthy Torres in improving his command, he’ll be a top-200 prospect next offseason.

 

[MadThinker88]

Some of the Tribe Minor League Free Agents. Thanks to Indians Prospective for posting..

Indians Prospective

@indiansPro

#Indians MiLB players free agent eligible 1st time
RHP Argenis Angulo
OF Jodd Carter
C Kungkuan Giljegjaw
C Gianpaul Gonzalez
RHP Henry Martinez
INF Andruw Monasterio
RHP Jared Robinson
LHP Randy Valladares

 

[Gson]

Some of the Tribe Minor League Free Agents. Thanks to Indians Prospective for posting..

Indians Prospective
@indiansPro

#Indians MiLB players free agent eligible 1st time
RHP Argenis Angulo
OF Jodd Carter
C Kungkuan Giljegjaw
C Gianpaul Gonzalez
RHP Henry Martinez
INF Andruw Monasterio
RHP Jared Robinson
LHP Randy Valladares

Thanks for posting this, Mad...

Giljegjaw, Martinez and Robinson being on the list is surprising.. hope K Giljegjaw is retained as an MiLB FA for the Indians..