2020 NBA Draft

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I'mWithDan

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Sexton will probably be Jordan Clarkson 2.0
Or, he may be traded because he exceeded expectations in the second year

Jordan Clarkson?

Age 22 - Jordan Clarkson - 11.9 PTS, 3.2 REB, 3.5 AST, .9 STL, .480 EFG
Age 21 - Collin Sexton - 20.8 PTS, 3.1 REB, 3.0 AST, 1 STL, .517 EFG

PER 36 scoring isn't close either. Comparing these two players, relative to the improvement Sexton has shown, is beyond a stretch. Sexton is younger, a more explosive scorer AND a more efficient shooter.

At 21, Sexton has shown the potential to be a top 10 scorer in the NBA. That seems like it is realistically his ceiling if he continues to improve. Clarkson was nowhere near that, at any point in his career.
 

Muffinalt

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So...what do they view Sexton as? I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand the internal logic the Cavs are working with. Are they benching him in favor of KPJ? Moving him back to PG? Something else I haven't thought of?

I think if they were/are ready to have Sexton/Garland as a pairing, they won't have a problem with trying out Sexton/KPJ, at least for an extended evaluation.

I think this year we will see a lot of fine tuning and testing between Sexton, KPJ and Garland to see how they fit exactly, what can be done with them. And then probably a decision comes mid way or at the end of the season if they don't work as a three man tandem.
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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Maybe Kevin Porter will develop into a ball handler and a facilitator. I don't think it's that far fetched.
And then, perhaps Sexton will fit right next to him. But where does it leave Garland? locked into a 6th man role? That's not great.
 

Nathan S

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I think if they were/are ready to have Sexton/Garland as a pairing, they won't have a problem with trying out Sexton/KPJ, at least for an extended evaluation.

I think this year we will see a lot of fine tuning and testing between Sexton, KPJ and Garland to see how they fit exactly, what can be done with them. And then probably a decision comes mid way or at the end of the season if they don't work as a three man tandem.

That makes sense, I'm just trying to reconcile the following:

A. Don't see Sexton as a PG
B. Don't see KPJ as a SF
C. Want to try the Sexton/KPJ pairing

How is this possible? Unfortunately, it just reinforces my bad feeling that the Cavs don't have a plan, or have multiple conflicting plans.
 

Vipra

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Sexton just averaged 21 points per game, but he's "probably going to be" Jordan Clarkson, who never even approached 20 ppg? How does that make any sense?

All I can say is, "READ THE TRANSCRIPT". See the "trade him because he exceeded expectation" part!!
It was meant to be sarcastic.
 

I'mWithDan

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That makes sense, I'm just trying to reconcile the following:

A. Don't see Sexton as a PG
B. Don't see KPJ as a SF
C. Want to try the Sexton/KPJ pairing

How is this possible? Unfortunately, it just reinforces my bad feeling that the Cavs don't have a plan, or have multiple conflicting plans.

It will be telling how the draft and off-season goes. If the team truly thinks KPJ is worth building around.....then several significant transactions need to happen, as A-B-C intimate. If we generally just draft someone who is a roster fit and do nothing else, I almost feel like the KPJ hype is the FO just blowing smoke up everyone's ass. :chuckle:
 

Nathan S

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It will be telling how the draft and off-season goes. If the team truly thinks KPJ is worth building around.....then several significant transactions need to happen, as A-B-C intimate. If we generally just draft someone who is a roster fit and do nothing else, I almost feel like the KPJ hype is the FO just blowing smoke up everyone's ass. :chuckle:

KPJ was better than I expected, but I think it would be crazy at this stage to start making moves to build around him. For some sobering context, fans should note that he received 0 All-Rookie votes. That is, out of 100 pundits, 0 felt he was a top-10 rookie this year. Of course, he could go on to be a top-10 player in this draft nonetheless, and the Cavs may know better than the media how good he really is. But it could also just be a classic case of looking at our own players with rose tinted glasses.
 

Cavatt

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It's hard for me to reconcile going forward with Darius and Collin. I said it when Darius was first brought up. "It is going to be hard to bench Sexton if he improves at all, especially if Garland doesn't surpass Sexton's first year."

Even if Garland ends up being pretty good, what is the plan? Does he actuality have Dame or Curry potential? I haven't seen that dog in him at all.

We have a very good small scorer on our hands that needs a defensive minded 2 guard sized pg or a playmaking 3 to make that work. There are 2 highly touted 6'5" pg's in this draft where we will be picking. I prefer Haliburton because I think he has for real vision and NBA range. Hayes playmaking looks more like good decisions to me, and I don't believe he is more athletic than Haliburton. He has more bulk at the moment.

I really like Okoro, and if he were 6'8" he would be the pick to me. However, Haliburton has better defensive numbers, and he scores 15 a game with over 6 assists. Even if those are all 2's, that;s 27 points of offense while being a very good defender on 1's and 2's. He hasn't even played with shooters, he has been the best shooter on his team for 2 years. Only Vassell has better defensive numbers, which I admit are impressive.

Haliburton 15pts 6 rebs 6.6 Ast 63 eFG% 20.3PER 8.1 WS 4.4DBPM 101dRTG

SGA 14pts 4.1rebs 5.1 Ast 50 eFG% 21 PER 5.2WS 3.7 DBPM 101 dRTG

Tatum 16.8pts 7.3rebs 2 Ast 50.7 eFG% 22PER 4.1 WS 3.2DBPM 97.8 dRTG*

I posted these Tatum numbers not to say Haliburton is better than him, but to show how great his statistical profile is. It's elite.

I seriously can't tell what I am missing. This guy impacts the game in every single way. Is there anyone here that wouldn't trade SGA for Darius? Here is a guy who has more athleticism IMO, who has a better numbers across the board, and already rates highly in advanced metrics. Look at his win shares. He helps his team win. That is the kind of player we need. We need playmaking and defense, and he solves our small scorer problem with Sexton.

I think everyone is overthinking this. Haliburton is in the 2nd tier, just like SGA isn't Luka or Trae. He has star even if he doesn't have #1 option superstar potential. He is a superior prospect to Garland in every way that can be measured. This is making me more nervous all the time that we can't see what is staring us in the face.

Haliburton is not good enough at looking for his own shot, but we have KPJ, Collin, and Kevin love for that. He is going to make Drummond and everyone else look better while greatly improving perimeter D at the point of attack.

I know it sucks to take 3 pg's in a row, but Haliburton is better than Darius and he will help maximize our best young scorer going forward, and will give us so much more versatility in the backcourt. Play switchable lineups with him and KPJ in the backcourt, or a small transition team of 5 out shooters with Larry at the 5, Love, Haliburton, Sexton, and Garland.

It's driving me crazy, but this is it. I want to bench Garland in favor of Haliburton and challenge Darius to take a starting spot. If he is up to it, we can trade him or Sexton, maybe for a star player.
 

Muffinalt

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That makes sense, I'm just trying to reconcile the following:

A. Don't see Sexton as a PG
B. Don't see KPJ as a SF
C. Want to try the Sexton/KPJ pairing

How is this possible? Unfortunately, it just reinforces my bad feeling that the Cavs don't have a plan, or have multiple conflicting plans.

Yeah I think basically what SirDom is saying.

If KPJ develops more as a ball handler and initiator, and at the same time Sexton improves his passing reads they could make a nice combo guard tandem I think. Like an improved Sexland lol. Garland is 6th man that way - not what we envisioned when he was drafted but Id be fine with that completely.

This is one way. The other is if Garland improves he can be the PG, one guy is the starting Sg and the other is the 6th man. I wouldn't mind that either.

There are 3 guys for the 4 spots so there is a lot that can play out. It needs improvement though from all three, so we will know more midway through the season.

FWIW I fine with this trajectory, but I'm equally fine with drafting Haliburton (and slotting the others as it plays out or trades) because we saw first hand what Delly does to Sexton's game.

I see two paths basically but it all depends so much on who from the young guys improves, how much and in what areas.
 

MirORich

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Just because there is/might be organizational belief and alignment that KPJ has the best shot at being a franchise player level guy, does not mean that they think he is that today or that they will simply hand him a starting job. Will he get a 25-30mpg role this season? No doubt at all. But they still may see his best development course as the 6th man as they take the year to settle other positional and roster questions with other young players.

Let these guys bake in the oven. There is no need to rush. Especially when you’re talking about 1 year college players who are only entering their 2nd or 3rd year in the NBA.

I have zero anxiety about watching how it plays out this year with Garland, Sexton, and KPJ. Wouldn’t trade any of them until the trade deadline at the very earliest, and only then if it’s a no brainer.

Does it get more complicated if we come out of the draft with Ball, Haliburton, or Hayes? Yes, but we can cross that bridge IF and when we get there
 
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Nathan S

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Yeah I think basically what SirDom is saying.

If KPJ develops more as a ball handler and initiator, and at the same time Sexton improves his passing reads they could make a nice combo guard tandem I think. Like an improved Sexland lol. Garland is 6th man that way - not what we envisioned when he was drafted but Id be fine with that completely.

This is one way. The other is if Garland improves he can be the PG, one guy is the starting Sg and the other is the 6th man. I wouldn't mind that either.

There are 3 guys for the 4 spots so there is a lot that can play out. It needs improvement though from all three, so we will know more midway through the season.

FWIW I fine with this trajectory, but I'm equally fine with drafting Haliburton (and slotting the others as it plays out or trades) because we saw first hand what Delly does to Sexton's game.

I see two paths basically but it all depends so much on who from the young guys improves, how much and in what areas.

I see the two paths you're describing, but I'm worried about the third path where neither of those things materialize. For KPJ/Sexton to be a functional passing backcourt, you'd probably want like 5apg from Sexton and 4apg from Porter, or something like that. That would require major improvement from both of them. Similarly, Garland going from where he was last year to being a quality starting PG would require an enormous leap. And if neither of those things happen then we spend a whole season with a dysfunctional backcourt, which hurts everyone. Like you said, we saw what Delly did for Sexton's game. It's his 3rd season...IMO, time to stop dicking around and get him a real point guard to play off of.
 

inliner311

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I see the two paths you're describing, but I'm worried about the third path where neither of those things materialize. For KPJ/Sexton to be a functional passing backcourt, you'd probably want like 5apg from Sexton and 4apg from Porter, or something like that. That would require major improvement from both of them. Similarly, Garland going from where he was last year to being a quality starting PG would require an enormous leap. And if neither of those things happen then we spend a whole season with a dysfunctional backcourt, which hurts everyone. Like you said, we saw what Delly did for Sexton's game. It's his 3rd season...IMO, time to stop dicking around and get him a real point guard to play off of.

I really wonder if some of what the Cavs are saying and leaking is part of their draft strategy. There is 4 guard that could go in the top 5 in Edwards, LeMelo, Haliburton, and Hayes. The warriors were said to want to shop that pick so we know there could be trade ups before #5. There is really no clear cut order to the talent in this draft.

If the Cavs are no threat to take a guard, teams won't worry about trading in front of them to get one. They could be truly hoping teams either draft or trade up to get a big or a wing so that they have their choice of these big PGs.

Outside of when they have had the number 1 pick the Cavs usually surprise all of us with who they pick. It isn't until draft day when we start hearing who they actually really like.
 

I'mWithDan

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KPJ was better than I expected, but I think it would be crazy at this stage to start making moves to build around him. For some sobering context, fans should note that he received 0 All-Rookie votes. That is, out of 100 pundits, 0 felt he was a top-10 rookie this year. Of course, he could go on to be a top-10 player in this draft nonetheless, and the Cavs may know better than the media how good he really is. But it could also just be a classic case of looking at our own players with rose tinted glasses.

Yeah.....and honestly, I think a guy can probably be a really good building block sans something like All-Rookie voting.......someone like Jimmy Butler comes to mind but I don't think that is very common at all. Guys do get under drafted from time to time and develop but expecting it, at this point, is probably blind optimism.

I didn't really like KPJ as a prospect but I do see that it is a MASSIVE win for the organization if he becomes even the 3rd or 4th best player on a team capable of competing for a title. At pick 30, that is a home run to me. But the talk about him being a rebuild altering player? I mean, if we are counting on that as an organization, I think we really are sniffing our own farts. That is not to say that it can't happen.....but to have that kind of belief, relative to his production and projection, seems like a lot of wishful thinking at this point.
 

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