2020 NBA Draft

[Nathan S]

They can go ahead and talk about guards for the next few months, and I'm not upset or anything... just providing some perspective on what is being floated in the media. If a trade materializes, the Cavs might both need a guard and not have the #5 pick. Who knows.

What's the word on Okongwu, if any? He's clearly the cream of the crop in terms of defense/switchability/athleticism in this draft, but perhaps is seen as too roleplayer-y for #5?

 

[inliner311]

What's the word on Okongwu, if any? He's clearly the cream of the crop in terms of defense/switchability/athleticism in this draft, but perhaps is seen as too roleplayer-y for #5?

Kind of on the topic of Okongwu since people want to compare him to Bam. Bam was talking about how at Kentucky he was asked to play a certain role and it didn't give him the opportunity to show all he had. The same thing might be the case for Tyler Herro. Kentucky is usually teams that are full of talent and guy have to sacrifice for the team. I'm not sure the same can be said about USC and I wouldn't bank that Okongwu has unseen and untapped potential. I would look at Okongwu as TT 2.0+.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

One thing if they add another star is they will get that bump in Vet free agents signing with them. Garland and Drummond give them a player for the future and a star in his prime. If adding an all-star center like Drummond doesn't work out they can move him much easier than Wiggins at the deadline. Salary cap possibly going down and how much they already have committed in the future, I'm not sure they want to pay a massive luxury tax for Wiggins. I think they are less likely to take on Love because of his contract. Drummond gives them flexibility especially with the picks they have from the Wiggins trade.

We literally traded absolutely nothing for Drummond at the deadline. People seem to forget this. No one wanted him at all. Now he's a star in his prime? Where is this coming from? All it took to get him was Knight, Henson, and 2nd round pick. If Drummond is playing 28-32 minutes a game, they have to change the way they play basketball to make it work (and they still need perimeter help).

The tax bill is a moot point. They'd be paying just as much tax with Drummond as they would Wiggins, unless they decided to let Drummond walk in the offseason (which would make no sense at all). GSW is going to ride out Curry/Thompson as long as they possibly can no matter what it costs them.

Also, GSW doesn't want players for the future. They want players that can play and contribute to a winning team right now. I'd also argue that Lonzo in that system with those guys surrounding him could very well turn into a star himself.

 

[inliner311]

We literally traded absolutely nothing for Drummond at the deadline. People seem to forget this. No one wanted him at all. Now he's a star in his prime? Where is this coming from? All it took to get him was Knight, Henson, and 2nd round pick. If Drummond is playing 28-32 minutes a game, they have to change the way they play basketball to make it work (and they still need perimeter help).

The tax bill is a moot point. They'd be paying just as much tax with Drummond as they would Wiggins, unless they decided to let Drummond walk in the offseason (which would make no sense at all). GSW is going to ride out Curry/Thompson as long as they possibly can no matter what it costs them.

Also, GSW doesn't want players for the future. They want players that can play and contribute to a winning team right now. I'd also argue that Lonzo in that system with those guys surrounding him could very well turn into a star himself.

Prime age for a nba player is 27. Drummond is 27. I do realize no one wanted him in at the deadline and that was mostly because of his contract. The reason he will opt in is because no one will pay him 28 million. He will most likely have to take a pay cut in the summer of 2021 even if he works out for us or another team if he is traded. The warriors have 158 million committed for 2021-2022 with Wiggins. I'm not sure they use their 17 million TPE with that kind of money committed to Wiggins.

Wiggins will be a hard contract to move until it's an expiring. If they are committed to winning, they might need a trade before the trade. Drummond could be that. Garland could be Curry's understudy and he could be used in a future package for another star. Curry is 32 and will be 33 next season.

Warriors are still in the repeaters tax and the next two years could be huge if they don't make moves. The lowering of the cap won't help either. They could be looking at a 200+ million in luxury tax alone in 2021-2022 if they keep Wiggins and use their TPE. There is a breaking point for every owner for luxury tax and that could be it for them.

I see Drummond/Garland for Wiggins/#2 pick as a salary dump more than for the players. Drummond is a roll of the dice on a former all star that is in his potentially prime age. It increases the warriors flexibility to make a big trade down the line. I'm making the assumption that the Warriors value Garland like a lottery pick which is a big if. They then see it as a trade down from #2 for Garland, the roll of the dice on Drummond instead of Wiggins, getting rid of the 2 extra years of Wiggins/60 million dollars, and the increase flexibility to make other trades for the 2020-2021 season.

 

[inliner311]

What does everyone realistically think it would take to move from #5 to #2 if the warriors are looking to move down?

Is Garland and #5 too much to pay for #2? Would #5 and the 2022 Bucks 1st round pick be enough? Would we have to add a player like Cedi to that?

 

[CleveRocks]

What does everyone realistically think it would take to move from #5 to #2 if the warriors are looking to move down?

Is Garland and #5 too much to pay for #2? Would #5 and the 2022 Bucks 1st round pick be enough? Would we have to add a player like Cedi to that?

So who are you picking at 2 that is that much better than 5? I am not seeing the separation at the top of this draft we saw last year. In fact there is an argument we trade down.

 

[adam81king]

What does everyone realistically think it would take to move from #5 to #2 if the warriors are looking to move down?

Is Garland and #5 too much to pay for #2? Would #5 and the 2022 Bucks 1st round pick be enough? Would we have to add a player like Cedi to that?

Love and #5 for Wiggins and #2.

 

[I'mWithDan]

I'm not sure the same can be said about USC and I wouldn't bank that Okongwu has unseen and untapped potential. I would look at Okongwu as TT 2.0+.

Again, I'll keep beating this drum.........if Okongwu is TT+, that is an All-Star. So we should probably just take that guy if he is there and not overthink this.

I'd also push back on the assertion that Okongwu doesn't have untapped potential. There's certainly some intriguing tape of him doing things like euro stepping, functional movement off the dribble, facilitating offense from the elbow.....that it seems reasonable to expect he can do more on offense, if he does develop.

 

[inliner311]

So who are you picking at 2 that is that much better than 5? I am not seeing the separation at the top of this draft we saw last year. In fact there is an argument we trade down.

I would move up to #2 to get LeMelo or Deni. I do agree that the separation between 2 and 5 isn't as much as last year. I think last year #1 and #2 are higher ceiling guys than who will go #1 or #2 this year. Even RJ Barrett might have a higher ceiling than who goes #1 this year. There was a steep drop off at #3 last year. This year I think 1-4 are close together and #5 is where it becomes more questionable.

If there isn't that massive separation then maybe it makes sense to give up an asset like the Bucks 2022 pick and move up to get the guy we like the most at #2. If Edwards gets taken #1 and Golden State is looking to deal, LeMelo or Deni might be worth spending the extra asset to get both talent and fit to this team. We should want a SF or in LeMelo's case a small forward sized player. Both LeMelo and Deni should give us the playmaking we need.

It might not be worth giving up Garland to move up to #2 but the Bucks pick is top 10 so it's not a incredible asset.

 

[inliner311]

Again, I'll keep beating this drum.........if Okongwu is TT+, that is an All-Star. So we should probably just take that guy if he is there and not overthink this.

I'd also push back on the assertion that Okongwu doesn't have untapped potential. There's certainly some intriguing tape of him doing things like euro stepping, functional movement off the dribble, facilitating offense from the elbow.....that it seems reasonable to expect he can do more on offense, if he does develop.

I knew I worded that very questionably with untapped potential. I think he most likely has untapped potential but to expect he has Bam untapped potential I think seems fairly unreasonable. It's over projecting him because of one players that has similar size and length as him.

Okongwu is the safe pick that neither gets a GM fired or moves the needle much. I think like TT if Okongwu gets taken high, people will look back and wish their GM took a bigger swing at a different player with higher potential.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Love and #5 for Wiggins and #2.

The Cavs only make this deal if they are confident Wiseman is the next Anthony Davis. I can't stress enough how bad Andrew Wiggins is on defense, and how awful his contract is going to be long-term.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Cavs need to maintain maximum financial flexibility at this point. We shouldn't be absorbing contracts for marginal improvements at best. With all the Corona shit going on and how owners are going to be impacted by the lack of fans for the upcoming season/s? and the uncertainty of what the cap space is gong to look like for the upcoming seasons, as well as the question marks regarding our roster as a whole, we should maintain maximum flexibility to keep all our options options.

 

[Nathan S]

If we use the stretch provision it would take the hit down to ~13M/year, which is more manageable, but then he'd be on the books through the 2026-27 season. No good solutions.

 

[daytripper]

The Cavs only make this deal if they are confident Wiseman is the next Anthony Davis. I can't stress enough how bad Andrew Wiggins is on defense, and how awful his contract is going to be long-term.

I would hate to have Wiggins on this team but then again Love, while obviously much better, is probably just a part time player at this point (50-60 games). If they feel there's a chance Wiseman has a perennial all-star type ceiling then hope they would pull the trigger on that type deal. They would obviously have to dump that Love contract if they're taking on the Wiggins contract though. Maybe they bring back the amnesty clause at some point?
I do like some of these guys ie. Vassell, Okoro, Haliburton, Okongwu,etc but not sure any really project as more than roleplayers. As far as the wings are concerned I don't see a huge difference between Okoro/Vassell and someone like Josh Green projected to be picked later in the first round. Alot obviously depends on the measurements and pre draft workouts too...If Vassell measures well and has legit SF size maybe he moves to the front of the pack,, If Okoro shows a Jimmy Butler type motor/mentality to improve maybe he moves up their board, etc, etc.

 

[daddywags]

Just no, hell no, to Wiggins. If they even think about it I'll be disappointed.

As for Okongwu, a TT+ is a pretty good player if the + means 72% FT% and more rim protection. Just looking at O vs TT college stats at bref O leads in pretty much every advanced and per-100 stat. How is that a bad thing in a 19 year-old and a weak draft. Drafting for fit often means taking chances and going against your better judgment of absolute player value. Fit in Beilein's system is what talked us into two short point guards being a good idea.