After watching more film again, I put Okoro over Vassell and Edwards now as highest ceiling. Okoro’s explosive athleticism and as a one on one defender is phenomenal. His basketball iq is off the charts - love his off the ball movement and also makes right decisions as a playmaker at times. I believe his shooting can be fixed. I like how Okoro uses his body and strength to draw fouls - how he utilizes his body does remind me of Jimmy Butler. I know people love to compare every year on who will be next Kawhi etc but I feel Okoro with right coaching has a chance to be a star someday.
-
Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.
2020 NBA Draft
- Thread starter blommen
- Start date
Link to Ball/Haliburton/Okongwu/Hayes/Edwards/Wiseman/Pokusevski:
Devin Vassell
Josh Green
Isaac Okoro
Malachi Flynn
Tre Jones
Deni Avdjia
RJ Hampton
Nate Hinton
Obi Toppin
Devin Vassell
Perimeter offense: 7/10
Excellent in catch-and-shoot situations and in other situations where he can get his feet under him, but not a particularly dynamic/high-volume shooter.
Interior offense: 2/10
Decent frame and athleticism, but fairly passive and not a very adventurous ballhandler. Settles for tough shots instead of seeking out contact.
Team offense: 6/10
Again not particularly dynamic or adventurous, but a seriously high-IQ guy who makes quick, accurate passes and almost never turns the ball over.
Perimeter defense: 8/10
Really savvy 1-on-1 defender who applies constant pressure and is really hard to shake with dribble moves. Extremely tenacious; will fight to get back in the play when beaten or when slowed down by a screen. May not quite have the lateral speed to hang with the quickest guards, but otherwise a near-ideal perimeter defender.
Interior defense: 3/10
Opportunistic shot blocker and rebounder, but wiry frame isn't really conducive to battling stronger players, and as on offense he can sometimes shy away from contact, preferring to swipe for a steal or a block rather than hold his ground.
Team defense: 8/10
Excellent leader with a really high activity level. Very smart and fundamentally sound, always communicating, always locked in.
Overall: 34/60
Excellent in catch-and-shoot situations and in other situations where he can get his feet under him, but not a particularly dynamic/high-volume shooter.
Interior offense: 2/10
Decent frame and athleticism, but fairly passive and not a very adventurous ballhandler. Settles for tough shots instead of seeking out contact.
Team offense: 6/10
Again not particularly dynamic or adventurous, but a seriously high-IQ guy who makes quick, accurate passes and almost never turns the ball over.
Perimeter defense: 8/10
Really savvy 1-on-1 defender who applies constant pressure and is really hard to shake with dribble moves. Extremely tenacious; will fight to get back in the play when beaten or when slowed down by a screen. May not quite have the lateral speed to hang with the quickest guards, but otherwise a near-ideal perimeter defender.
Interior defense: 3/10
Opportunistic shot blocker and rebounder, but wiry frame isn't really conducive to battling stronger players, and as on offense he can sometimes shy away from contact, preferring to swipe for a steal or a block rather than hold his ground.
Team defense: 8/10
Excellent leader with a really high activity level. Very smart and fundamentally sound, always communicating, always locked in.
Overall: 34/60
Josh Green
Perimeter offense: 5/10
A respectable catch-and-shoot guy, but could stand to improve his mechanics. Mainly a floor spacer, with no real ability to shoot on the move or off the dribble.
Interior offense: 4/10
Not a very deft finisher, but does a good job getting all the way to the rim and taking contact thanks to straight-line speed and solid frame. Not a guy who can create 1-on-1, but likely to get opportunistic baskets attacking closeouts, on cuts, and on offensive boards.
Team offense: 5/10
A genuinely high-IQ player who usually makes good decisions with the ball, but (as with his shooting and finishing) he's a bit raw on the actual execution.
Perimeter defense: 9/10
Near-perfect package of size, strength, quickness, and reflexes. Fundamentals still need some fine tuning, but has the right physical tools and mentality to be one of the very best here.
Interior defense: 4/10
Good competitiveness and physicality, but doesn't really have the vertical length/athleticism to bother bigger players in the paint.
Team defense: 6/10
Reasonably high-IQ defender who can cause trouble in passing lanes, and can cover a lot of ground thanks to quickness and athleticism. But not quite as active as when he's guarding the ball, and no particular knack for positioning.
Overall: 33/60
A respectable catch-and-shoot guy, but could stand to improve his mechanics. Mainly a floor spacer, with no real ability to shoot on the move or off the dribble.
Interior offense: 4/10
Not a very deft finisher, but does a good job getting all the way to the rim and taking contact thanks to straight-line speed and solid frame. Not a guy who can create 1-on-1, but likely to get opportunistic baskets attacking closeouts, on cuts, and on offensive boards.
Team offense: 5/10
A genuinely high-IQ player who usually makes good decisions with the ball, but (as with his shooting and finishing) he's a bit raw on the actual execution.
Perimeter defense: 9/10
Near-perfect package of size, strength, quickness, and reflexes. Fundamentals still need some fine tuning, but has the right physical tools and mentality to be one of the very best here.
Interior defense: 4/10
Good competitiveness and physicality, but doesn't really have the vertical length/athleticism to bother bigger players in the paint.
Team defense: 6/10
Reasonably high-IQ defender who can cause trouble in passing lanes, and can cover a lot of ground thanks to quickness and athleticism. But not quite as active as when he's guarding the ball, and no particular knack for positioning.
Overall: 33/60
Isaac Okoro
Perimeter offense: 4/10
Some shooting ability, but not a big part of his game at the moment, and questionable mechanics. Really needs to improve in this area or defenders will simply dare him to shoot.
Interior offense: 6/10
Nice touch around the rim and a very good frame for absorbing contact, but was relatively quiet offensively. A guy who tends to pick his spots rather than take over as a slasher/scorer.
Team offense: 5/10
Not a very prolific playmaker, but a high-IQ player who sees angles and generally has good ideas even if the execution isn't always there.
Perimeter defense: 7/10
Really nice combination of strength and lateral mobility makes him a tough and versatile perimeter defender. A bit conservative; contains and contests, but doesn't really disrupt and hound ballhandlers as much as he could.
Interior defense: 4/10
Tough defender with great lower body strength, but below-average reach really hurts him, especially on the glass.
Team defense: 6/10
Smart team defender who rarely misses a rotation. Versatile, good fundamentals, good attention to detail. Uncharacteristically for a young wing, doesn't often look to jump passing lanes, which can be seen as both a strength and a weakness.
Overall: 32/60
Some shooting ability, but not a big part of his game at the moment, and questionable mechanics. Really needs to improve in this area or defenders will simply dare him to shoot.
Interior offense: 6/10
Nice touch around the rim and a very good frame for absorbing contact, but was relatively quiet offensively. A guy who tends to pick his spots rather than take over as a slasher/scorer.
Team offense: 5/10
Not a very prolific playmaker, but a high-IQ player who sees angles and generally has good ideas even if the execution isn't always there.
Perimeter defense: 7/10
Really nice combination of strength and lateral mobility makes him a tough and versatile perimeter defender. A bit conservative; contains and contests, but doesn't really disrupt and hound ballhandlers as much as he could.
Interior defense: 4/10
Tough defender with great lower body strength, but below-average reach really hurts him, especially on the glass.
Team defense: 6/10
Smart team defender who rarely misses a rotation. Versatile, good fundamentals, good attention to detail. Uncharacteristically for a young wing, doesn't often look to jump passing lanes, which can be seen as both a strength and a weakness.
Overall: 32/60
Malachi Flynn
Perimeter offense: 8/10
Versatile shooter with good mechanics and a quick release. High volume and good (though not quite elite) accuracy off the dribble. Gets good elevation, but lack of size puts him at a disadvantage against bigger guards.
Interior offense: 2/10
Decent first step, but doesn't have the athleticism to regularly get all the way to the rim, and can be a bit too predictable as a finisher. Not crafty enough for a guy with below-average length.
Team offense: 8/10
One of the most polished and NBA-ready floor generals in the draft. Size again limits him a bit, but he's a really good decision maker in the P&R and has nice touch on his passes under all circumstances.
Perimeter defense: 5/10
Competitive thanks to good fundamentals, quickness and intensity, but will be at a disadvantage in a lot of matchups due to lack of length to contest and strength to deny dribble penetration.
Interior defense: 1/10
A good competitor, but really lacks the physical tools to do anything useful in the paint.
Team defense: 6/10
Really high-IQ defender who always knows where he needs to be and gets there quickly. Generates a lot of steals thanks to excellent instincts jumping passing lanes, and generally plays a bit bigger than his size due to fast reflexes.
Overall: 30/60
Versatile shooter with good mechanics and a quick release. High volume and good (though not quite elite) accuracy off the dribble. Gets good elevation, but lack of size puts him at a disadvantage against bigger guards.
Interior offense: 2/10
Decent first step, but doesn't have the athleticism to regularly get all the way to the rim, and can be a bit too predictable as a finisher. Not crafty enough for a guy with below-average length.
Team offense: 8/10
One of the most polished and NBA-ready floor generals in the draft. Size again limits him a bit, but he's a really good decision maker in the P&R and has nice touch on his passes under all circumstances.
Perimeter defense: 5/10
Competitive thanks to good fundamentals, quickness and intensity, but will be at a disadvantage in a lot of matchups due to lack of length to contest and strength to deny dribble penetration.
Interior defense: 1/10
A good competitor, but really lacks the physical tools to do anything useful in the paint.
Team defense: 6/10
Really high-IQ defender who always knows where he needs to be and gets there quickly. Generates a lot of steals thanks to excellent instincts jumping passing lanes, and generally plays a bit bigger than his size due to fast reflexes.
Overall: 30/60
Tre Jones
Perimeter offense: 6/10
Still fairly inconsistent, but much improved from his freshman season. A steady shooter off the catch or off the dribble when he has time to square up and set his feet.
Interior offense: 1/10
Not a good finisher at all. Decent ballhandler, but poor vertical athleticism, doesn't take contact, and really doesn't have very good touch.
Team offense: 8/10
Like Flynn, a very polished and effective floor general. Not a spectacular playmaker, and his own lack of scoring gravity hurts him, but he can make all the passes and really knows how to run an efficient offense.
Perimeter defense: 6/10
Average physical tools, but really, really quick hands that give ballhandlers a lot of trouble, and nice lateral quickness.
Interior defense: 2/10
Way too short to be a viable defender inside, but he's a tenacious defender no matter the opponent with really good lower body and core strength to stubbornly hold position.
Team defense: 7/10
An excellent leader. Highly engaged, always communicating, really good at sniffing out plays and jumping passing lanes. Physical limitations hold him back a little, but he's a gritty defender who's not afraid to do the dirty work either.
Overall: 30/60
Still fairly inconsistent, but much improved from his freshman season. A steady shooter off the catch or off the dribble when he has time to square up and set his feet.
Interior offense: 1/10
Not a good finisher at all. Decent ballhandler, but poor vertical athleticism, doesn't take contact, and really doesn't have very good touch.
Team offense: 8/10
Like Flynn, a very polished and effective floor general. Not a spectacular playmaker, and his own lack of scoring gravity hurts him, but he can make all the passes and really knows how to run an efficient offense.
Perimeter defense: 6/10
Average physical tools, but really, really quick hands that give ballhandlers a lot of trouble, and nice lateral quickness.
Interior defense: 2/10
Way too short to be a viable defender inside, but he's a tenacious defender no matter the opponent with really good lower body and core strength to stubbornly hold position.
Team defense: 7/10
An excellent leader. Highly engaged, always communicating, really good at sniffing out plays and jumping passing lanes. Physical limitations hold him back a little, but he's a gritty defender who's not afraid to do the dirty work either.
Overall: 30/60
Deni Avdjia
Perimeter offense: 5/10
Streaky outside shooter. Reasonably high volume, but can go cold for long stretches, and low free throw percentage is cause for concern.
Interior offense: 3/10
Not very comfortable inside the arc despite solid physical tools. Doesn't have a great first step to get around defenders, and tends to avoid contact in the paint.
Team offense: 5/10
Good, quick decision maker on the perimeter and in transition, but can get flustered and force passes when the defense keys in on him or against smaller, quicker defenders.
Perimeter defense: 5/10
Decent fundamentals and all-around mobility, but not great. Size/length save him some, but needs to improve footwork or quicker NBA wings will blow by him.
Interior defense: 5/10
Pretty good shot blocking instincts, and decent lower body strength. Pretty competitive. Won't be enough against true bigs, but should hold his own against most guys in the paint.
Team defense: 6/10
Really high-IQ team defender who doesn't make many mistakes. Somewhat limited by average athleticism, and high center of gravity (poor footwork?) can make him a step slow reacting and changing directions at times.
Overall: 29/60
Streaky outside shooter. Reasonably high volume, but can go cold for long stretches, and low free throw percentage is cause for concern.
Interior offense: 3/10
Not very comfortable inside the arc despite solid physical tools. Doesn't have a great first step to get around defenders, and tends to avoid contact in the paint.
Team offense: 5/10
Good, quick decision maker on the perimeter and in transition, but can get flustered and force passes when the defense keys in on him or against smaller, quicker defenders.
Perimeter defense: 5/10
Decent fundamentals and all-around mobility, but not great. Size/length save him some, but needs to improve footwork or quicker NBA wings will blow by him.
Interior defense: 5/10
Pretty good shot blocking instincts, and decent lower body strength. Pretty competitive. Won't be enough against true bigs, but should hold his own against most guys in the paint.
Team defense: 6/10
Really high-IQ team defender who doesn't make many mistakes. Somewhat limited by average athleticism, and high center of gravity (poor footwork?) can make him a step slow reacting and changing directions at times.
Overall: 29/60
RJ Hampton
Perimeter offense: 6/10
Shot just 30% from deep this season, but good mechanics and longer-term reputation suggest that this is probably a sample size issue, and that he should at least develop an accurate set shot in time.
Interior offense: 4/10
Not yet overly skilled, but has a positive, aggressive mentality and is an athletic finisher when he gets to the rim.
Team offense: 6/10
Doesn't quite have the handle or vision to be a PG, but was really good in a secondary ballhandler role, finding open shooters and generally making passes with good velocity and accuracy.
Perimeter defense: 5/10
Really good physical tools for a perimeter defender, but fundamentals need serious work to reach his potential here. Wide range of possible outcomes.
Interior defense: 2/10
Decent length and good vertical pop, but not very strong or disciplined in the paint.
Team defense: 5/10
Quality steal/block/rebound rates thanks to outstanding length, quickness, and athleticism, but not a very reliable team defender at this stage. Inconsistent effort, and poor attention to detail.
Overall: 28/60
Shot just 30% from deep this season, but good mechanics and longer-term reputation suggest that this is probably a sample size issue, and that he should at least develop an accurate set shot in time.
Interior offense: 4/10
Not yet overly skilled, but has a positive, aggressive mentality and is an athletic finisher when he gets to the rim.
Team offense: 6/10
Doesn't quite have the handle or vision to be a PG, but was really good in a secondary ballhandler role, finding open shooters and generally making passes with good velocity and accuracy.
Perimeter defense: 5/10
Really good physical tools for a perimeter defender, but fundamentals need serious work to reach his potential here. Wide range of possible outcomes.
Interior defense: 2/10
Decent length and good vertical pop, but not very strong or disciplined in the paint.
Team defense: 5/10
Quality steal/block/rebound rates thanks to outstanding length, quickness, and athleticism, but not a very reliable team defender at this stage. Inconsistent effort, and poor attention to detail.
Overall: 28/60
Nate Hinton
Perimeter offense: 5/10
Very good spot-up shooter with nice, consistent mechanics. No signs that he'll expand his perimeter game beyond being a floor spacer, though.
Interior offense: 5/10
Not actually a good finisher despite strong frame, but an incredibly talented offensive rebounder. High motor, great hands, and a slippery-strong frame that makes him really difficult to box out.
Team offense: 4/10
Not a volume passer, but a good low-mistake decision maker. A leader on the court who tries to do all the little things to help his team.
Perimeter defense: 5/10
Not unusually quick, but solid length, and really bothers ballhandlers with his high energy level and physicality.
Interior defense: 4/10
Not tall or vertically athletic enough to be a shot blocking threat, but excellent footwork and lower body strength make him a nuisance and a plus rebounder.
Team defense: 5/10
Intelligent, lunchpail kind of defender. Only gets an average number of steals, but won't be the guy who gambles unsuccessfully and gives up and open look. Gets the 50/50 balls.
Overall: 28/60
Very good spot-up shooter with nice, consistent mechanics. No signs that he'll expand his perimeter game beyond being a floor spacer, though.
Interior offense: 5/10
Not actually a good finisher despite strong frame, but an incredibly talented offensive rebounder. High motor, great hands, and a slippery-strong frame that makes him really difficult to box out.
Team offense: 4/10
Not a volume passer, but a good low-mistake decision maker. A leader on the court who tries to do all the little things to help his team.
Perimeter defense: 5/10
Not unusually quick, but solid length, and really bothers ballhandlers with his high energy level and physicality.
Interior defense: 4/10
Not tall or vertically athletic enough to be a shot blocking threat, but excellent footwork and lower body strength make him a nuisance and a plus rebounder.
Team defense: 5/10
Intelligent, lunchpail kind of defender. Only gets an average number of steals, but won't be the guy who gambles unsuccessfully and gives up and open look. Gets the 50/50 balls.
Overall: 28/60
Obi Toppin
Perimeter offense: 5/10
Capable outside shooter with decent form, but not a volume shooter, and not too comfortable off the dribble or under duress.
Interior offense: 8/10
Great finisher with unusual combination of explosiveness and craftiness around the rim. Big-time lob threat. Could improve at drawing fouls given his physical tools, and rather surprisingly a non-factor on the offensive glass.
Team offense: 4/10
Pretty decent passer, especially out of the post, but not an unusually high-IQ player. Mediocre ballhandling skills limit his offensive versatility.
Perimeter defense: 2/10
Size and length save him a little, but really poor mobility laterally and slow reflexes. Bad effort, will gamble for a steal and then just stand there if he fails.
Interior defense: 5/10
Decent strength and solid vertical pop give him some hope, but here too he's held back by clumsy footwork, and he often seems a moment late reacting even in the rare instances where he's putting in full effort.
Team defense: 3/10
Not terrible, smart enough to make rotations most of the time, but really just going through the motions at best. Effort level can be really bad at worst.
Overall: 27/60
Capable outside shooter with decent form, but not a volume shooter, and not too comfortable off the dribble or under duress.
Interior offense: 8/10
Great finisher with unusual combination of explosiveness and craftiness around the rim. Big-time lob threat. Could improve at drawing fouls given his physical tools, and rather surprisingly a non-factor on the offensive glass.
Team offense: 4/10
Pretty decent passer, especially out of the post, but not an unusually high-IQ player. Mediocre ballhandling skills limit his offensive versatility.
Perimeter defense: 2/10
Size and length save him a little, but really poor mobility laterally and slow reflexes. Bad effort, will gamble for a steal and then just stand there if he fails.
Interior defense: 5/10
Decent strength and solid vertical pop give him some hope, but here too he's held back by clumsy footwork, and he often seems a moment late reacting even in the rare instances where he's putting in full effort.
Team defense: 3/10
Not terrible, smart enough to make rotations most of the time, but really just going through the motions at best. Effort level can be really bad at worst.
Overall: 27/60
Cavatt
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 29,234
- Reaction score
- 38,388
- Points
- 148
Totally agree. The body control he has on drives is elite. The way he finishes through contact and still gets the shot off and powers it in.
Shooting is his achilles heel, he has a great foundation on everything else. I just think it is more likely that he learns to shoot than the other guys in his range fix their multiple issues. I see him as a future 2nd or 3rd best offensive player who is the best defensive player very similar to the role Jimmy is playing.
I'mWithDan
"Straight Cash Homie"
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Messages
- 11,828
- Reaction score
- 23,852
- Points
- 135
It may be why people inevitably miss on Okoro but I really still cannot reconcile his FT shooting at all levels. Maybe he's able to rehaul his mechanics but can anyone think of a wing player who was a generally bad FT shooter, who went on to be a good outside shooter?
Really liking Josh Green as a sleeper. Physically and athletically he's pretty much the ideal NBA wing prospect. High motor. Raw offensively, but has key foundational skills (shooting, passing, speed with the ball). High floor, and maybe higher ceiling than people are thinking.
daytripper
Miracle of Richfield
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2006
- Messages
- 3,845
- Reaction score
- 5,655
- Points
- 113
I'm with you on Green although I want to see the measurements on all these wings. Someone I trust told me Green has really small hands which could be an issue. Prospects don't have to have Kawhi hands but it's really helpful if they measure out well. I do like Okoro and Vassell but don't see a huge dropoff at all with Green. I've seen mocks where both Okoro/Vassell are in the top 10 but Green slides all the way down to the 20's. I don't think there is that much of a chasm between the three.
At this point I prefer Okongwu, Okoro or Deni at 5 (assuming Wiseman is off the board) but wouldn't be heartbroken if they get a nice trade down offer to pick up extra draft capital and still have guys like Green and Jalen Smith still on the board.
daytripper
Miracle of Richfield
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2006
- Messages
- 3,845
- Reaction score
- 5,655
- Points
- 113
Yeah 67% on FT's isn't great but who knows how much he would've improved if he had stayed another year? Kawhi was only slightly higher than 70% his freshman year at SDSU.
Measurements from Hoop Summit are slightly below average there (8.00" length, 9.00" width), but nothing too unusual. KPJ for comparison 8.75" & 8.75", Windler 8.25" & 9.50". Anthony Davis's hands are a modest 9.00" & 8.50", Paul George 8.50" & 9.00". Kawhi's giant hands are certainly a bonus, but having average sized hands isn't necessarily an impediment.
Only place I see a lot of separation between Okoro/Deni/Vassell/Green is on draft boards, where Green's really lagging. Each brings a different mix of skills, but all are high-IQ 2-way wings. Also think that Jalen Smith and Xavier Tillman are great options in the late first. Both should be plus defenders right away, and both bring translatable skills on offense as well (Smith's shooting, Tillman's passing).
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Messages
- 36,593
- Reaction score
- 93,400
- Points
- 148
Yep, that's the future of the NBA. Watching the Heat, everybody in their rotation could be categorized as a two way player with perimeter skills. They only play three guys I would categorize as guards - Dragic, Herro, and Nunn - and one guy who would be a stretch center in Olynyk. Everyone else fits the category of two way swingman with unique skill sets.
I wouldn't hate it if we go wing crazy and draft two of those guys. Sexton/KPJ/Green/Deni/Nance would be a pretty fun, modern, athletic lineup.
Cavatt
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 29,234
- Reaction score
- 38,388
- Points
- 148
Jaylen Brown was worse. Okoro played as a big man a lot. Maybe it makes more sense to look at Power Forwards?
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2006
- Messages
- 14,801
- Reaction score
- 41,158
- Points
- 148
I'll say it until I'm blue in the face but the Cavs won't be any good until we find some competitive two way players, and that starts on the defensive end...
I've always thought it starts from your core players and filters its way through your team... While I understand the Cavs trying to go for talent and offense being more important than ever, but the best teams can defend, and defend when they need to, and there's not many long-term pieces that truly have a + defensive upside--Nance and Porter Jr, is that it?
While the Cavs do have a lot of wings, what they're missing is two-way wings like everyone has alluded to... It's also been an underrated component of a any team but even more so with where things are going... Sure we may have an overabundance of wings but you can play small or big and match-up accordingly across three spots... Really what you're buying is versatility and getting your best players on the floor... Unfortunately, aside from Porter, I really don't think we have a two-way wing on this roster...
To me, this is why I'm much more in the Okongwu camp (if Drummond is deemed to not be extension worthy which I think is arguable but I digress for now) and Vassell/Okoro area than I am Avdija/Toppin... In my earlier film study of Avdija, I just didn't come away thinking he'll be a plus defender at an NBA level... He may very well be a team defender and wash out, or be slightly negative individually on defense, but I don't think his offensive assets are needed on this team to qualify him worth a pick...
I know Haliburton has been discussed on here but I really see a better team defender than I did individual defender when watching him... Not to say he's not a capable defender but I didn't see the lockdown defensive potential that you would likely want if you're pairing him with Sexton/Garland and taking him at #5... The other issue I have with the pick is you're also almost committing to playing small with Haliburton/Sexton/Garland taking up your minutes at the 1&2, forcing Porter Jr. to play more 3 and also likely forcing Osman/Windler to even play some 4 potentially, which is really getting farther down the road of an ill-equipped defensive team and trying to patch the issue at hand... I think Haliburton would make a lot more sense if the Cavs planned to move on from Sexton or Garland pre-draft but that doesn't seem to be the case...
I've always thought it starts from your core players and filters its way through your team... While I understand the Cavs trying to go for talent and offense being more important than ever, but the best teams can defend, and defend when they need to, and there's not many long-term pieces that truly have a + defensive upside--Nance and Porter Jr, is that it?
While the Cavs do have a lot of wings, what they're missing is two-way wings like everyone has alluded to... It's also been an underrated component of a any team but even more so with where things are going... Sure we may have an overabundance of wings but you can play small or big and match-up accordingly across three spots... Really what you're buying is versatility and getting your best players on the floor... Unfortunately, aside from Porter, I really don't think we have a two-way wing on this roster...
To me, this is why I'm much more in the Okongwu camp (if Drummond is deemed to not be extension worthy which I think is arguable but I digress for now) and Vassell/Okoro area than I am Avdija/Toppin... In my earlier film study of Avdija, I just didn't come away thinking he'll be a plus defender at an NBA level... He may very well be a team defender and wash out, or be slightly negative individually on defense, but I don't think his offensive assets are needed on this team to qualify him worth a pick...
I know Haliburton has been discussed on here but I really see a better team defender than I did individual defender when watching him... Not to say he's not a capable defender but I didn't see the lockdown defensive potential that you would likely want if you're pairing him with Sexton/Garland and taking him at #5... The other issue I have with the pick is you're also almost committing to playing small with Haliburton/Sexton/Garland taking up your minutes at the 1&2, forcing Porter Jr. to play more 3 and also likely forcing Osman/Windler to even play some 4 potentially, which is really getting farther down the road of an ill-equipped defensive team and trying to patch the issue at hand... I think Haliburton would make a lot more sense if the Cavs planned to move on from Sexton or Garland pre-draft but that doesn't seem to be the case...
I'mWithDan
"Straight Cash Homie"
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Messages
- 11,828
- Reaction score
- 23,852
- Points
- 135
Brown was definitely in the Bam category......where his development was pretty miraculous. He was in the bottom 20 prospects in positional impact score in the stuff I track. It is seriously remarkable he turned out to be as good as is he, relative to historical outcomes of guys like him. It is a just a graveyard of prospects who flamed out.
Seeing just one guy come out of that wash is why it is concerning to me. I actually like Okoro more than the data I see would intimate, you just really have to be right about him. Vassell specifically seems like a guy with a far higher floor, who will do similar two way things......and I personally struggle to see Okoro's ceiling. If he was more creative with the ball, maybe you could talk me in to it......but if your view is both guys are plus defenders with spacing and transition value, I really would just rather take a prospect with more outcome certainty.....and out of the wing group, it seems like that guy is Vassell, looking at his shooting markers.
I wouldn't dislike the pick (Okoro)......I just think whoever takes him, probably needs to undertake adjusting his mechanics.....and that is always a little unnerving.
Cavatt
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2008
- Messages
- 29,234
- Reaction score
- 38,388
- Points
- 148
See I would argue that Brown was much worse than Okoro in multiple areas. You admit Okoro has more elite skills than Brown did? He had to fix multiple areas, but Okoro needs to learn to shoot better. I don't think we need to pray for a flukey miracle.
Vassell looks great. I wouldn't be unhappy with him. I just think Okoro has more upside. He doesn't look like a guy that can't shoot as much as a guy who doesn't need to and bullied guys in the paint a lot. The ft% is a concern for sure. I mean he obviously took a lot of free throws since he attacked the basket so often.
At this point I trust the staff to fix it. They just keep doing it and apparently Gerriot won all the shooting games in the bubble.
You aren't right there is just one guy who did it, Brown is just the guy that comes to mind. Bruce Bowen shot better from 3 than the ft line one year, and then I looked on our own team.
Cedi Osman in 2019-2020 shot 67% from the line and 38.3 from 3 to lead the team. His first year he shot 57%! from the line and 35% from 3.
Tristan on not that many attempts shot 39% from 3 and 62% from the line.
Larry Nance was 68% from the line and 35% from 3.
I just don't think it is s a fluke that Collin, Larry, Cedi, Tristan were all poor shooters and are now hitting league average from 3 or better.
IF Okoro can get to 36% I will happy because I think he can finish at 70% at the basket.