2020 NBA Draft

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Cavatt

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I don't think 72% gives any hope, but there are other reasons that you already mentioned to be more optimistic about his shot moving forward.

As far as the bolded, I'm not sure what makes you think that.

His brother shot a high volume of 3's at 38% this year while defending adequately, and I think LaMelo projects as a much worse defender, who also won't do much scoring inside the arc.

I guess I like Hayes upside, but I haven't really seen enough of him. I think that's a theme with this draft, the less we've seen of somebody, the more we like them.
Lamelo is a better prospect than his brother IMO. He could be the best playmaker in the league at some point. Lonzo has 0 elite skills IMO. That's just what I think. Lonzo can't get to the basket, and when he does, he can't finish.

Lamelo is bigger, better at penetrating, better at ball handling, probably a better playmaker today. Defense is the only place I think Lonzo has the edge. Lamelo's defensive deficiencies are largely off ball and strength related.

"Meanwhile, LaMelo leaned on east-west dribbling into contested pull-up jumpers, but he showed more wiggle off the bounce. He attempted 53 shots around the basket in the half court through just 12 games, compared to Lonzo, who took 69 shots around the basket in 36 games. LaMelo averaged 5.0 free-throw attempts per 40 to Lonzo's 3.1. "

His catch and shoot 3 numbers are good. Pretty much what his brother put up this year.

"Lonzo ranked in the 95th percentile in spot-ups at UCLA playing alongside Aaron Holiday. He shot 44.6 percent off the catch. LaMelo shot 11-of-29 (37.9 percent) on catch-and-shoots through 12 games. He wasn't as accurate as his brother, but when he was able to set his feet and generate rhythm, the results were promising."


This was a comparison I read.


I have watched some tape. Lamelo is definitley better at breaking the defense with his first step, and his ball handling is way better.

Again just my assessment.
 

Derek

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Lamelo is a better prospect than his brother IMO. He could be the best playmaker in the league at some point. Lonzo has 0 elite skills IMO. That's just what I think. Lonzo can't get to the basket, and when he does, he can't finish.

Lamelo is bigger, better at penetrating, better at ball handling, probably a better playmaker today. Defense is the only place I think Lonzo has the edge. Lamelo's defensive deficiencies are largely off ball and strength related.

"Meanwhile, LaMelo leaned on east-west dribbling into contested pull-up jumpers, but he showed more wiggle off the bounce. He attempted 53 shots around the basket in the half court through just 12 games, compared to Lonzo, who took 69 shots around the basket in 36 games. LaMelo averaged 5.0 free-throw attempts per 40 to Lonzo's 3.1. "

His catch and shoot 3 numbers are good. Pretty much what his brother put up this year.

"Lonzo ranked in the 95th percentile in spot-ups at UCLA playing alongside Aaron Holiday. He shot 44.6 percent off the catch. LaMelo shot 11-of-29 (37.9 percent) on catch-and-shoots through 12 games. He wasn't as accurate as his brother, but when he was able to set his feet and generate rhythm, the results were promising."


This was a comparison I read.


I have watched some tape. Lamelo is definitley better at breaking the defense with his first step, and his ball handling is way better.

Again just my assessment.
I guess that’s the disconnect.

I don’t see LaMelo as a better prospect than Lonzo was coming out. I put them about equal. I’d even argue Lonzo is a better passer.

The biggest difference I see is that LaMelo has had so much less actual high level gameplay that there is less for us to pick apart.
 

Nathan S

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I actually see the opposite of a high upside player.

I think LaMelo is a safe pick. He'll probably be a low-efficiency scorer so hopefully, he limits his volume, but his passing will play at a high level immediately.

I think the question you need to answer before taking him highly is what will he be on the defensive end?

Also, not that it really matters, but I would not consider 72% on the low end of good. That's just plain bad for a guard.
I don't necessarily agree that he's not a high upside player, but it's really tricky to evaluate his scoring upside in particular. He averaged 17 ppg, which is in the "normal" range for a high lottery guard, but probably would've averaged just 10-12 ppg on a typical team where he wouldn't have been allowed to take so many low-percentage shots. If that was the case, would he still be talked about as "high ceiling" potential star, or as more of a passing specialist system player?
 

Derek

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I don't necessarily agree that he's not a high upside player, but it's really tricky to evaluate his scoring upside in particular. He averaged 17 ppg, which is in the "normal" range for a high lottery guard, but probably would've averaged just 10-12 ppg on a typical team where he wouldn't have been allowed to take so many low-percentage shots. If that was the case, would he still be talked about as "high ceiling" potential star, or as more of a passing specialist system player?
I guess when I think high upside, I think that guy has superstar potential.

So, I’m just trying to find a path to success for him as a star player and I can’t do it.

I don’t see him ever being a good efficient scorer, so unless he becomes a dynamic defender, I don’t see the upside.

Funny thing is, I would love to have Lonzo.
 

Nathan S

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I guess when I think high upside, I think that guy has superstar potential.

So, I’m just trying to find a path to success for him as a star player and I can’t do it.

I don’t see him ever being a good efficient scorer, so unless he becomes a dynamic defender, I don’t see the upside.

Funny thing is, I would love to have Lonzo.
For me, a lot of it comes down to his height. Being 6'8" is just a huge advantage as a PG. He can easily see over the defense, and if he ever figures his shot out, he can easily shoot over the defense too. He gets way more rebounds than a typical PG even with mediocre fundamentals. And he has potential as a finisher that other average athletes (sorry Garland) could only dream of. A 6'4" LaMelo Ball would be a pretty meh late lottery prospect, but 6'8" LaMelo Ball is super interesting.
 

Derek

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For me, a lot of it comes down to his height. Being 6'8" is just a huge advantage as a PG. He can easily see over the defense, and if he ever figures his shot out, he can easily shoot over the defense too. He gets way more rebounds than a typical PG even with mediocre fundamentals. And he has potential as a finisher that other average athletes (sorry Garland) could only dream of. A 6'4" LaMelo Ball would be a pretty meh late lottery prospect, but 6'8" LaMelo Ball is super interesting.
He and Lonzo are about the same height, maybe separated by an inch, so I guess that’s where my hesitation comes.

If I thought LaMelo would defend like Lonzo, I’d be more inclined to hop on the bandwagon.

As it stands, I prefer Hayes, but don’t really have a horse in this draft. I’ll follow and support whoever gets drafted. Kind of how I felt last year.
 

Nathan S

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He and Lonzo are about the same height, maybe separated by an inch, so I guess that’s where my hesitation comes.

If I thought LaMelo would defend like Lonzo, I’d be more inclined to hop on the bandwagon.

As it stands, I prefer Hayes, but don’t really have a horse in this draft. I’ll follow and support whoever gets drafted. Kind of how I felt last year.
Yeah, I'm also leaning Hayes right now for what it's worth. Is Lonzo the better passer? Sure. But the gap there isn't big enough to make up for the fact that Hayes is better everywhere else.
 

Smooth

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On the surface, any guard or 2-guard specific (i.e. Edwards) they take means they'll have to move on from Garland, Sexton or Porter Jr., as there's simply not enough room for all three plus a high draft pick, given their defensive fits..

There's the Sixers model where you take the best player available and trade away surplus (like Michael Carter-Williams) but problem is you're taking less for what you've invested in Garland or Sexton...

But, not taking best player available has hurt franchises time and time again..

Digging deeper, the larger scale issue (and one I've come to firmly believe) is the Cavs will not be an elite team again until it's best players are good defensive players... Singling out Edwards and Ball, don't do anything to solve that issue.. To me, it only perpetuates where the Cavs current roster construction is that and while they're seemingly more talented players, it doesn't do anything to address their fits, or long-term top-end potential...
 

Nathan S

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Also want to re-insert Haliburton into this conversation, as I feel like he's been pigeonholed as the "safe, boring" alternative to Ball and Hayes. He's not a highlight machine like they are, but he's a high-IQ defender who gobbles up steals, blocks, and rebounds with his 7' wingspan, he knocked down a crisp 42% from 3 and 82% from the line, and he's a truly unselfish playmaker who would slot in perfectly between Sexton and KPJ on the perimeter. We need a playmaker and we need perimeter defense, and he's arguably the best bet to fill both of those needs.
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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I think we need to look at RJ Hampton. Dude is electric.
Sexton and him can form the most athletic backcourt in the league. He would also balance our terrible back court defense.
RJ Hampton while athletic, really needs to improve his finishing at the rim, but he gets there aaaalot because his acceleration is just other worldly. A lot to work with.

A Sexton, Hampton, Porter Jr are freakishly athletic trio. Although, I can't see much fit offensively. Unfortunately.
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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Unless ofcourse, Sexton cherishes being an off-ball player and more of a spot up shooter. Do we want him to be so?
I really do think 'potentially' that trio can be a matchup nightmare for other teams.
Shooting will have to come from the 4/5 position as we will never have a starting knock down shooter at the 1-3 spot.
 

daytripper

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I'd argue that a true big like Okongwu, shooting 72% from the FT, is certainly not a mediocre FT shooter relative to the position.

72% would comfortably slot him in the top 15 among qualifying NBA centers.

If you want to call him a Forward, 72% is still top 25 among qualifying NBA forwards.

It is not lights out but as a starting point for a young big man, it is certainly good IMO.

I think he has solid mechanics as well, so I would imagine he has the capacity to improve as a FT shooter too.

He shot 10 or more FT's 3 times this past season and shot:

17-21
9-10
9-10

It is tough for me to say any big man capable of doing that, even in a 3 game sample, is a mediocre FT shooter.
Wouldn't be surprised at all if Okongwu is very, very high on the Cavs' board and he ends up being the pick. I believe even the stepien has him at the very top of their newest board. I personally was hoping for a wing but not sure I take any of them outside of possibly Avdija without a trade down.
Hayes sounds intriguing if he can defend NBA PGs and also wings on the perimeter. That might be a tough sell to select another player technically listed as a pg in the lottery for the 3rd year in a row.
 

Cavatt

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Wouldn't be surprised at all if Okongwu is very, very high on the Cavs' board and he ends up being the pick. I believe even the stepien has him at the very top of their newest board. I personally was hoping for a wing but not sure I take any of them outside of possibly Avdija without a trade down.
Hayes sounds intriguing if he can defend NBA PGs and also wings on the perimeter. That might be a tough sell to select another player technically listed as a pg in the lottery for the 3rd year in a row.
I'd take Vassel in a second if we were picking in the 5-8 range. Very real possibility that the late lottery end up being better than the top
 

cabs

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I think we need to look at RJ Hampton. Dude is electric.
Sexton and him can form the most athletic backcourt in the league. He would also balance our terrible back court defense.
RJ Hampton while athletic, really needs to improve his finishing at the rim, but he gets there aaaalot because his acceleration is just other worldly. A lot to work with.

A Sexton, Hampton, Porter Jr are freakishly athletic trio. Although, I can't see much fit offensively. Unfortunately.
Hampton stunk in the NBL, i wouldnt use a lottery pick on him
 

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