2020 NBA Draft

[Nathan S]

They are closer than you would think.

I really like Okoro. I just think I see a super high level finisher from him. His passing is intriguing, and yeah his body and defensive instincts are great. His shot is questionable, but I don't think it is totally broken. FT% gives no confidence.

Vassell is so good, just hounds people even though he is not the athlete or physique of Okoro. He's a super safe pick IMO. Great floor, maybe higher than Okoro. I do think he is mainly a 3 and D though. More defenive minded Wes Matthews I think. Love to have him on the team, would not take in the top 5 where I would take Okoro at 5.

Hampton is cool, but as good as an athlete or at least functional athlete is my issue. I don't think he uses his body as effectively as he could. He looks liek Exum to me where he is supposed to be athletic, but doesn't seem that quick. I'm worried about that.

Green has the most bust potential and I would take any of the others before him for sure.

Hmmm...I mostly agree, but I don't see the bust potential with Green. Good physical tools, can shoot, can defend...not seeing any red flags. Hampton a little scary because it's not clear that the shot is there, and the physical tools aren't there for him to slide to the 3. But out of all of them, he probably has the most straightforward pathway to develop into a big PG type, which is something we could use.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Can anyone talk to me about Patrick Williams? I heard a recent podcast where they were doing a mock draft with the Cavs picking 6 and that was who one of the guys took for the Cavs.

I know next to nothing about him other than he is raw and young. A quick glance doesn't really show much, so I don't know what to think.

 

[Cavatt]

Hmmm...I mostly agree, but I don't see the bust potential with Green. Good physical tools, can shoot, can defend...not seeing any red flags. Hampton a little scary because it's not clear that the shot is there, and the physical tools aren't there for him to slide to the 3. But out of all of them, he probably has the most straightforward pathway to develop into a big PG type, which is something we could use.

I don't think he really does anything great. Usually, there are guys who can do multiple thing and i think the other three guys have that. He sort of all around mediocre. My personal philosophy is that you are better off targetting a guy like that in the teens that has something that will definitely translate into roleplayer. I don't see it with Green.

As for Hampton, yeah. I did not really know his assist game was that good.

 

[Nathan S]

Can anyone talk to me about Patrick Williams? I heard a recent podcast where they were doing a mock draft with the Cavs picking 6 and that was who one of the guys took for the Cavs.

I know next to nothing about him other than he is raw and young. A quick glance doesn't really show much, so I don't know what to think.

That's a surprise to me, as I've typically seen him mocked in the late first/early second, which seems like a more realistic landing spot for a player with his skillset. Looks to me like a big 3&D wing who has some work to do on the "3" part.

I don't think he really does anything great. Usually, there are guys who can do multiple thing and i think the other three guys have that. He sort of all around mediocre. My personal philosophy is that you are better off targetting a guy like that in the teens that has something that will definitely translate into roleplayer. I don't see it with Green.

As for Hampton, yeah. I did not really know his assist game was that good.

Agree that he doesn't do anything great, but I see that more as an argument against him having a high ceiling (I'd probably agree) than an argument that he'll bust. He'll hold his own on defense, and on offense he'll make open 3's and collect some garbage/transition buckets with his athleticism. Good enough to earn a rotation spot on most teams.

Hampton's in a weird spot because his passing game is good, but not good enough that you want him running the offense, even with the second unit. So he does potentially run into a lot of the same problems as Exum there. On the other hand, no one's talking about drafting Hampton up at #5 where Exum was drafted...in the teens, that kind of prospect could be a good role of the dice.

 

[Cavatt]

That's a surprise to me, as I've typically seen him mocked in the late first/early second, which seems like a more realistic landing spot for a player with his skillset. Looks to me like a big 3&D wing who has some work to do on the "3" part.



Agree that he doesn't do anything great, but I see that more as an argument against him having a high ceiling (I'd probably agree) than an argument that he'll bust. He'll hold his own on defense, and on offense he'll make open 3's and collect some garbage/transition buckets with his athleticism. Good enough to earn a rotation spot on most teams.

Hampton's in a weird spot because his passing game is good, but not good enough that you want him running the offense, even with the second unit. So he does potentially run into a lot of the same problems as Exum there. On the other hand, no one's talking about drafting Hampton up at #5 where Exum was drafted...in the teens, that kind of prospect could be a good role of the dice.

Yeah you are right. The teens are fine. I am having trouble thinking outside our pick range. I have heard a lot of people say that "this isn't the draft to get an extra pick in", but I totally think it is. A weak draft is definitely where you can find some gems later on like Giannis or Gobert that need a lot of polishing. You are right, some of these guys are likely to overperform. Large ball handling wings play a smaller role in college and I would not be surprised if Green or Hampton turned out pretty good.

 

[BankShot]

If there was a guard or a wing that projected as a future all-star, I'd be fine with taking BPA and figuring out the roster duplication later. But since there isn't, I don't want to take a prospect that would steal valuable minutes from Sexton, Garland, Porter or Windler. So for me, it's go big or go home, and in this draft, that means Wiseman or Okongwu. Our draft position might dictate which one of these two are available, but if both are on the board, I'm all about Okongwu. I'll post my thoughts on the two bigs later.

 

[Ozone]

Here's a comparison of four of the top wings in this draft (per-100 stats):


Okoro: 19.4 years old, 6'6" 225 lbs, 23.2 points, .51/.29/.67 shooting, 8.0 boards, 3.7 assists, 1.7 steals, 1.6 blocks, 3.5 turnovers, 4.9 fouls

Vassell: 19.8 years old, 6'6" 180 lbs, 25.3 points, .49/.42/.74 shooting, 10.1 boards, 3.3 assists, 2.8 steals, 1.9 blocks, 1.5 turnovers, 3.9 fouls

Green: 19.6 years old, 6'6" 210 lbs, 22.1 points, .42/.36/.78 shooting, 8.4 boards, 4.8 assists, 2.8 steals, 0.8 blocks, 3.0 turnovers, 4.5 fouls

Hampton: 19.3 years old, 6'5", 185 lbs, 22.7 points, .41/.30/.68 shooting, 10.1 boards, 6.1 assists, 2.8 steals, 0.8 blocks, 4.0 turnovers, 4.9 fouls


Okoro has a few things going for him, in particular his excellent frame which he uses very well to score efficiently inside the arc. But I'm a bit confused as to how he soared from mid-30's recruit to consensus lottery pick. I was team-Okoro early in the year, but don't see the argument for him now considering that at least one of Vassell/Green/Hampton will probably be available in the late teens of this draft. How would you all rank these guys?

All similar ceiling players imo. Vassell the highest floor obviously with Green and Okoro being better athletes but not by much. Hampton is a bit of the odd man out imo with these comps although interesting he was added. Because of the passing ability , might be drafted as a future pg in the NBA not sure though turnover prone not an elite handle etc and not a great shooter.If he is a wing he's 4th on the list imo.
Personaly like Vassell the most his offense is underrated and tbh Okoro although more than just a high level defender and athletic freak offensively his shooting doesn't project to really become anything to hang his hat on. He is a slasher finisher and defender lacking a legit 3 point shot.
Green is a better passer imo than given credit on most mocks and could be a top 10 sleeper but I don't see him ahead of Okoro or Vassell for the Cavs.

 

[Nathan S]

All similar ceiling players imo. Vassell the highest floor obviously with Green and Okoro being better athletes but not by much. Hampton is a bit of the odd man out imo with these comps although interesting he was added. Because of the passing ability , might be drafted as a future pg in the NBA not sure though turnover prone not an elite handle etc and not a great shooter.If he is a wing he's 4th on the list imo.
Personaly like Vassell the most his offense is underrated and tbh Okoro although more than just a high level defender and athletic freak offensively his shooting doesn't project to really become anything to hang his hat on. He is a slasher finisher and defender lacking a legit 3 point shot.
Green is a better passer imo than given credit on most mocks and could be a top 10 sleeper but I don't see him ahead of Okoro or Vassell for the Cavs.

Hampton's kind of tricky to classify positionally...I guess he's more of a combo guard. His athleticism gives him some versatility there.

 

[daytripper]

To me there isn't a huge separation between Okoro, Vassell and Green. I see mocks that have Okoro top 5, Vassell going top 10 and Green falling to the late teens/early 20's. If Cavs choose to go in that direction I wouldn't be upset to see them trade down to the late teens, draft Green or Hampton and acquire additional draft capital. A team like Boston is right now sitting at 17 plus have 2 later FRP's. Maybe the Cavs can walk away with Green and S. Bey or take a later flyer on a high ceiling/high bust potential kid like McDaniels like they did with KPJ last year.

 

[BankShot]

If there was a guard or a wing that projected as a future all-star, I'd be fine with taking BPA and figuring out the roster duplication later. But since there isn't, I don't want to take a prospect that would steal valuable minutes from Sexton, Garland, Porter or Windler. So for me, it's go big or go home, and in this draft, that means Wiseman or Okongwu. Our draft position might dictate which one of these two are available, but if both are on the board, I'm all about Okongwu. I'll post my thoughts on the two bigs later.

Sorry to quote myself, just adding my thoughts on the two bigs:

Wiseman: this doesn't mean what it used to, but he is one of the top center prospects over the last 10 years, in line with Embiid and Towns. Elite length and athleticism. High School film shows an ability to shot from the outside. With so little college experience to review, you almost have to look at him as if he is coming straight out of high school, so there is certainly risk there, is he closer to KG or Darius Miles? Talent wise, I have him on an elite level, but with so little high level data, he isn't a no-brainer. Biggest questions for me, is he a hard-worker? Any attitude issues? If we land at #1, he is my pick due to the freakish talent and length, but I'm kinda hoping that he is some other teams' risk to take.

Okongwu: I'm a huge fan...strong, high level athlete, soft touch around the rim and solid length. USC did his draft stock no favors by using him exclusively as a low post center (although he did excel at it on the college level), you have to go back to high school film to see that he can hit a 18 foot jumper. Not much evidence of it, but he looks to me to be able to switch and guard the perimeter. He is my pick if we are anywhere except #1.

 

[benchplayer]

Sorry to quote myself, just adding my thoughts on the two bigs:

Wiseman: this doesn't mean what it used to, but he is one of the top center prospects over the last 10 years, in line with Embiid and Towns. Elite length and athleticism. High School film shows an ability to shot from the outside. With so little college experience to review, you almost have to look at him as if he is coming straight out of high school, so there is certainly risk there, is he closer to KG or Darius Miles? Talent wise, I have him on an elite level, but with so little high level data, he isn't a no-brainer. Biggest questions for me, is he a hard-worker? Any attitude issues? If we land at #1, he is my pick due to the freakish talent and length, but I'm kinda hoping that he is some other teams' risk to take.

Okongwu: I'm a huge fan...strong, high level athlete, soft touch around the rim and solid length. USC did his draft stock no favors by using him exclusively as a low post center (although he did excel at it on the college level), you have to go back to high school film to see that he can hit a 18 foot jumper. Not much evidence of it, but he looks to me to be able to switch and guard the perimeter. He is my pick if we are anywhere except #1.

I'd Be totally fine with drafting Wiseman or Okongwu, especially since we may lose T.T.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Yeah, Deni is my guy. His recent tape looks excellent.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

How dominant would Avdija been in college? the Israeli league has higher level of competition and he currently dominates there.
I'm fond of Okoro aswell, and they are my top guys. I'm fixated on Okoro because I see something in him. I put his raw and advanced stats away just a bit. I think Avdija is safer, and he is definitely improving.

The thing with Avdija is tha he can take a step back and fit as a role player if he is surrounded by stars, or he can elevate his game and become a star himself when needed. It's about confidence with him, but once he gets confident, his game elevates to the next level. But even he is shy, he can contribute elsewhere, and I think that's a good trait to have on a young team that has so many unknowns as far as team construction goes as we have no idea who is going to become that star among that group.

I do think that at this rate he will be going top 3 as he gets exposure. I hope the Cavs can be inside the top 3, but i'm concerned that he is GSW's top target.

 

[B Mac]

How dominant would Avdija been in college? the Israeli league has higher level of competition and he currently dominates there.
I'm fond of Okoro aswell, and they are my top guys. I'm fixated on Okoro because I see something in him. I put his raw and advanced stats away just a bit. I think Avdija is safer, and he is definitely improving.

The thing with Avdija is tha he can take a step back and fit as a role player if he is surrounded by stars, or he can elevate his game and become a star himself when needed. It's about confidence with him, but once he gets confident, his game elevates to the next level. But even he is shy, he can contribute elsewhere, and I think that's a good trait to have on a young team that has so many unknowns as far as team construction goes as we have no idea who is going to become that star among that group.

I do think that at this rate he will be going top 3 as he gets exposure. I hope the Cavs can be inside the top 3, but i'm concerned that he is GSW's top target.

I think he's clearly been the Cavs target all along, and I've been completely on board.

 

[Cavatt]

How dominant would Avdija been in college? the Israeli league has higher level of competition and he currently dominates there.
I'm fond of Okoro aswell, and they are my top guys. I'm fixated on Okoro because I see something in him. I put his raw and advanced stats away just a bit. I think Avdija is safer, and he is definitely improving.

The thing with Avdija is tha he can take a step back and fit as a role player if he is surrounded by stars, or he can elevate his game and become a star himself when needed. It's about confidence with him, but once he gets confident, his game elevates to the next level. But even he is shy, he can contribute elsewhere, and I think that's a good trait to have on a young team that has so many unknowns as far as team construction goes as we have no idea who is going to become that star among that group.

I do think that at this rate he will be going top 3 as he gets exposure. I hope the Cavs can be inside the top 3, but i'm concerned that he is GSW's top target.

Do you have more recent tape? Has he been playing recently?