2020 Series 8 | Indians @ Pirates | August 18th-20th

[DCTribefan]

In my opinion having at least one top tier outfielder playing most everyday adds so much more depth to this team. A lead-off to a middle of the order outfielder bat adds a lot more depth and danger to this formidable team..

Here's hoping Luplow gets it going or Johnson can break out... But even if that happens, I think we should expect a new regular outfielder in the next 10 days. Maybe McKenzie is being showcased, maybe being evaluated to see how expendable Clevinger/Plesac actually are...

We are playing well, but upgrading the outfield is a must I believe.

Hadn’t thought about McKenzie being showcased but that does make sense.

 

[DCTribefan]

Still not much hitting. Hernandez, Hosey, Lindor - they're all slumping. But at least we finally got something from the bottom of the order. Naquin had three hits, Domingo Santana had a couple of walks, and Beau Taylor had an RBI single, a walk, a sac bunt, and threw out a runner trying to steal.

Unfortunately, Bradley Zimmer continues to flounder. He had one great at-bat where he worked a walk despite having two balls called strikes, but he hit weak ground balls his other three at-bats. The guy weighs 220 pounds and he consistently pounds the ball into the ground. A corner OF who's that big needs to elevate the ball or at least hit line drives. Zimmer does neither.

Bieber with a solid outing, but he had to use more pitches than normal. No problem as Perez, Karinchak, Wittgren, and Hand shut out the Pirates to preserve Bieber's 5th win.

The Indians only managed one unearned run in five innings against the Pirates' bullpen. The hitting is just abysmal right now, with the exception of Santana in the first two games of the series. Naquin has been having success going to left field so I hope he keeps that up. Hosey failed to get a hit the entire series, or even come close. Hernandez is hitting .224 in August.

OK, swept the Tigers and swept the Pirates. Now for the Tigers again and we have a 20-game win streak on the line. With Plutko and McKenzie (our #6 and #7 starters) going in the first two games I'm not optimistic the streak will continue, especially the way we're hitting the ball.

I’m deeply concerned that Zimmer has passed his expiration date as a prospect and the Tribe missed any window to trade him.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

I’m deeply concerned that Zimmer has passed his expiration date as a prospect and the Tribe missed any window to trade him.

It's sad to say but it looks like this may be the last gasp for both Zimmer and Greg Allen. Zimmer is 27, the age at which the highest percentage of position players have their best season. He's hitting .162 with five of his six hits being singles. There was some optimism after he changed his batting stance to better handle the high fastballs that were killing him, but that has not helped. He's still striking out about 40% of his at-bats.

If he had not been a first round pick I wonder if he'd have lasted this long. This year was a golden opportunity to establish himself as a starting outfielder between the Naquin injury and Allen, Johnson, and Mercado not hitting. Unfortunately he was not able to seize it. Unless he turns it around quickly I think this could be his last year in the organization. His lifetime batting average is down to .224 in 455 at-bats. OK, it's still not a full season of at-bats, but how do you justify playing him right now especially in a short season where every game is of heightened importance?

Greg Allen is also 27 but only has 8 at-bats this year when the Indians are desparate for an outfielder who can provide some offense. Obviously they don't think Allen is the guy. He had an opportunity last year with 231 at-bats and hit .229 with an OBP of only .290. That won't cut even for a centerfielder. If not for Mercado's unexpected problems at the dish Allen would not even be with the big club.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The Indians were 1-for-12 with RISP last night. They're beating the Tigers and Pirates with pitching and just a little offense, but they're not going far in the playoffs unless some guys start to hit.

Naquin is back and had three hits last night including two to the opposite field, so that's encouraging. He hit .288 last year and that number looks really good considering what we've seen so far from the worst outfield in baseball.

Domingo Santana has five walks in the last two games. He's seeing the ball well and is no longer chasing bad pitches. In fact, he's taking some really close pitches just outside the zone which is putting him in hitter's counts. Two nights ago he hit a ball 110 mph and also had a double. He is showing signs of coming around.

On the bright side, the Pirates scored one run in the last 23 innings of this series. A lot of that was due to the Pirates; just look at the batting averages of the lineup they started last night, but the Indians' pitching continues to be outstanding.

I feel sorry for Pirate fans. They're 4-17. Now they know how Browns fans felt the last few years.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Lindor banged one deep to right center last night that didn't go for extra bases only because of outstanding outfield play. He also had a single.

Signs of life, perhaps...?

 

[CATS44]

Biebs pitch count was high last night, but part of that was because of Newman getting on base three times without hitting a ball past the mound. That led to eleven more pitches. Without those, Biebs would have gone seven innings.

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Agree about the expiration dates on Zimmee and Allen. Perhaps Zim will turn into a decent every day player some day, but let somebody else give an opprtunity to an injury prone player that has yet to show any ability to hit a baseball. The same with Allen.

It would be different if the minors were playing baseball, and Johnson needed to play every day, but we are trying to win games up here. Johnson can't be worse, and he can fill the defense/base runner roster spot.

And then we have a guy who HAS hit at every level, and done it quite well, in Luplow. And Luplow is also a decent OF, capable of playing CF on a short term basis.

*************

TMac getting the nod Saturday is a total surprise to me. I would have thought he'd be behind Allen and Moss. I expect Allen to piggyback.

TMac may be the first pitcher not straight out of HS/college to ever make his MLB debut without making a competitive start in the previous two years.

****************

Id be really surprised if the FO traded its highest rated MLB ready SP prospect for current need, but there is precedent. We traded White and Pomeranz for Ubaldo.

But I wonder just how much value a skinny kid with major health concerns and no experience could bring in return...certainly not a long term impact bat.

************

We may not be able to hit right now, but we are third overall in MLB in run differential...second overall behind the Dodgers in Pythagoreum.

************

Wins vs bad teams shouldn't be dismissed out of hand...nor taken for granted.

Vs the bottom feeders...KC, Det, Pitt...we are 8-1. Minnesota is 4-7.

 

[xmasbuck]

And then we have a guy who HAS hit at every level, and done it quite well, in Luplow. And Luplow is also a decent OF, capable of playing CF on a short term basis.

interestingly enough the guy who HAS hit everywhere had identical minor league numbers to the guy we all want to move on from

the same guy is hitting a career .229 in 500 major league at bats - the guy we want to move on from is career .224 in 500 major league at bat -- one more power, one more speed - and .229 includes what may have been a career year in '19 - one is currently 27 yo, the other turns 27 in a month (expiration dates and all)

side note - luplow wont be roaming cf in his career

and to be sure, i agree with board sentiment on these two but making one out to be tony oliva is hyperbole at its finest

 

[LL3]

And then we have a guy who HAS hit at every level, and done it quite well, in Luplow. And Luplow is also a decent OF, capable of playing CF on a short term basis.

interestingly enough the guy who HAS hit everywhere had identical minor league numbers to the guy we all want to move on from

the same guy is hitting a career .229 in 500 major league at bats - the guy we want to move on from is career .224 in 500 major league at bat -- one more power, one more speed - and .229 includes what may have been a career year in '19 - one is currently 27 yo, the other turns 27 in a month (expiration dates and all)

side note - luplow wont be roaming cf in his career

and to be sure, i agree with board sentiment on these two but making one out to be tony oliva is hyperbole at its finest

I am somebody who would have liked to have seen Luplow get regular at bats this year, but his miserable 28 ab to start this short season has eliminated any real possibility for that....and no, I'd never want to see Luplow in CF, even if he is good in a corner. That said, I do not want to see Zimmer in center either, and that is a real issue for him -- not so much in regard to my wants and desires, but his mediocre at best play in an important defensive spot just further reduces his viability. He can still run and he has a good arm, but he has been reluctant and awkward...maybe he can iron this out and find a future bench role, but at present, his bat nor his glove performs at a very helpful level.

Domingo has not lit the world on fire by any measure, but watching him at bat you can see the upside...there is still a good chunk of season where he might have a real impact. He should be out there most every day...even if not good in the field. Naquin puts up good at bats and is a good fielder...I'd roll with him most days, maybe even stealing some at bats from Luplow v LHP.

Who knows what is available in trade, but I'd love to see the Tribe target a center fielder (even if a rental), even more than a corner...DeShields has done some good things to this point, but his bat is unlikely to continue producing even at the current clip. He'd be better as a straight back up.

 

[CATS44]

Luplow is hardly Tony Oliva. He may not even be anything more than a platoon bat, but we won't ever know if we don't give him the opportunity.

His numbers are very similar to another player who never got a chance in several orgs, until Cleveland signed him for nothing and stuck him on third base...Casey Blake.

I mean this kindly, but comparing Zimmer to Luplow in their careers is laughable.
Luplow has been far better at the highest three levels by almost any offensive measure.

OPS...Luplow first.

AA...903...796
AAA...868...770
MLB...775...649

Measurements like OPS+ are similarly stark.

And let's not forget K rates.

Zimmers at the MLB level stands at 32%....and was never under 25% at the upper levels.

Luplows is at 22%...and has never even reached 20% in the minors, except for 13 games in Columbus last year.

Luplow has played CF in MLB, a minute seven games, but he could play it in a pinch. He is a converted inf who runs well. He was the third fastest OF last year, behind Mercado snd Allen, and well ahead of Naquin, who came up as a CF.

He is also the youngest OF on the roster, by a year over Zimmer.

 

[Derek]

Trust me, I was banging the "play Luplow every day" drum really hard throughout the off-season.

Things just really didn't shake out his way in terms of getting more opportunities this year.

If the season starts on time, he's likely playing every day or close to it with Naquin out. Then, he gets dinged up and misses time in summer camp. Just a couple of bad breaks for him as an individual trying to breakthrough.

 

[xmasbuck]

Luplow is hardly Tony Oliva. He may not even be anything more than a platoon bat, but we won't ever know if we don't give him the opportunity.

His numbers are very similar to another player who never got a chance in several orgs, until Cleveland signed him for nothing and stuck him on third base...Casey Blake. jordan luplow is victor martinez is frankie lindor is casey blake is pablum

I mean this kindly, but comparing Zimmer to Luplow in their careers is laughable.
Luplow has been far better at the highest three levels by almost any offensive measure.

OPS...Luplow first.

AA...903...796
AAA...868...770
MLB...775...649

baseball reference tells me that luplow's minor league ops was .837, zimmer's .829

Measurements like OPS+ are similarly stark.

And let's not forget K rates.

Zimmers at the MLB level stands at 32%....and was never under 25% at the upper levels.

Luplows is at 22%...and has never even reached 20% in the minors, except for 13 games in Columbus last year.

Luplow has played CF in MLB, a minute seven games, but he could play it in a pinch. He is a converted inf who runs well. He was the third fastest OF last year, behind Mercado snd Allen, and well ahead of Naquin, who came up as a CF. correct, he will not be playing cf

He is also the youngest OF on the roster, by a year over Zimmer. prettiest troll? or, more to the point, the current f.o. has, unfortunately, specialized in aging 4A outfielders

 

[TxBuckeye]

So much for Carlos’s projected 9 RBI season getting bandied about over the weekend. Maybe middle of the order is just fine for him afterall.

Yep, he is smoking this year. 1/2 of his HR's and 1/2 of his RBI's came in a 2 game stretch.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Yep, he is smoking this year. 1/2 of his HR's and 1/2 of his RBI's came in a 2 game stretch.

Yeah, 2 HR's and 8 RBI's in back-to-back games against the Pirates, the worst team in baseball. In his other 36 games he has two HR's and 9 RBI's. That's extraordinarily bad for a cleanup hitter, not to mention his .198 batting average.

He's hitting .181 against right-handed pitchers.

Fangraphs has a stat called "pitch values" which measures how well the player hits different pitches. The last four years Santana's pitch values against the fastball have been 12.9, 9.2, 7.9 and 11.3. Pretty consistent with the average being 10.3. This year it's 0.1

It looks to me like he's lost some bat speed at age 34, based on his problems squaring up the fastball. For a while his high OBP was keeping him viable but he hasn't drawn a walk in six games covering 26 at-bats. Pitchers are catching on and making him swing the bat. He's a streak hitter so maybe he'll come out of it, but I'm very concerned about his problems hitting the fastball, which he used to punish.