2020 Starting Pitching Discussion

[TFIR]

Not me. I feel fortunate that Bauer, during his time here, passed on what he learned to guys like Clevinger and Bieber - and of course then those guys passed it on and continue to do so!

Look, the trade of Bauer was business.... period. We still have 5 excellent starters. But more importantly Bauer had said he was going to do 1 year contracts every year. That is basically an invitation to trade him. We then got good assets for him.

It's a win/win. So if people are somehow arguing a win/win it's about more than what's best for the Indians. Because the Indians benefited from the situation immensely. It worked out perfectly for everyone involved.

 

[jup]

Not me. I feel fortunate that Bauer, during his time here, passed on what he learned to guys like Clevinger and Bieber - and of course then those guys passed it on and continue to do so!

Look, the trade of Bauer was business.... period. We still have 5 excellent starters. But more importantly Bauer had said he was going to do 1 year contracts every year. That is basically an invitation to trade him. We then got good assets for him.

It's a win/win. So if people are somehow arguing a win/win it's about more than what's best for the Indians. Because the Indians benefited from the situation immensely. It worked out perfectly for everyone involved.

Bauer's time had run out in Cleveland.

He had locked horns with management way to many times over the years. He had alienated even those (in the front office - read Antonetti) that were the sole reason he was in Cleveland and the ones that steadfastly supported him as he locked horns with the on field management (read Callaway and Francona) through the early years.

It was a HUGE WIN for Cleveland and that doesn't even count the on field results or the trade value stuff. The knowledge and technological transfer that they got was worth every penny and then some. And that is what is said behind closed doors in the front offices that saw the whole thing happen and evolve.

But that is Bauer talk and is a NO NO for me to engage in. However, I'm glad to see there are some, willing to entertain that there is even a possibility, that he had a huge impact on how the Cleveland "starting pitcher factory" has evolved and prospered.

Now back into quarantine with me lest I be charged with all sorts of transgressions against "the RCF board"

 

[Urban]

I am curious to see if Bauer will follow through on his vow to only sign 1 year deals, I've always been skeptical on that

COVID may impact teams being less inclined to hand out big contracts, but see no reason why Bauer wouldn't be able to get a deal similar or better to Zack Wheeler's contract with the Phillies. I can't imagine it being easy to turn down $118 million + guaranteed in favor of a hypothetical lucrative 1 year $30m deal

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

@jup as much as we've beaten back the people who like to respond to every post of yours with a Bauer jab, you're fueling the fire just as much by bringing it up even when nobody else is.

I think you'll find that, on this board, we don't care. The people who have irrational hatred of a player tend to stay outside the discussion threads and stick to game threads and whatnot. Most of us around these parts are very much into the Driveline, spin rate, high speed camera, pitching strategy stuff that I know Trevor is all about. We like hearing that. This stuff's a great conversation.

The posts you've brought that break down our pitchers have been incredible. I know the Karinchak body angle stuff was something I've never even considered before.

But it sort of soils the entire post when you go off on a tanget about how everyone else is telling you talking about Bauer is a no no.

Personally, it sounds blasphemous putting the two in the same sentence, but I love Bauer for the same reason I loved Greg Maddux. I think they're both more intellectual than they are athletes. Sure they're both incredibly gifted, and Maddux was gifted with some of the best control ever. But I don't think either guy would have ever found the success they did/have at the major league level if it weren't for them being arguably the most intelligent players at their position of their era.

 

[jup]

I am curious to see if Bauer will follow through on his vow to only sign 1 year deals, I've always been skeptical on that

COVID may impact teams being less inclined to hand out big contracts, but see no reason why Bauer wouldn't be able to get a deal similar or better to Zack Wheeler's contract with the Phillies. I can't imagine it being easy to turn down $118 million + guaranteed in favor of a hypothetical lucrative 1 year $30m deal

I'm betting (if Las Vegas has odds) one year it will be, as surprised as it may leave some.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

There is talk that the Braves could be looking to make a trade for some SP. Their staff has been devastated by injuries.
If the Indians don't catch fire soon, I would be very open to trading about any SP not named Bieber. The season is about 20% done and we don't look like a serious contender.
Next seasons roster should be radically different, so nothing wrong with getting a head start.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

As well as Civale and Plesac are throwing the ball and with Cookie looking good and under contract for three more years, Plutko would seem to be the guy who might be had in a trade, especially after his solid performance against the White Sox. Of course it also depends on whether any of the other starters are throwing impressively in Eastlake, such as McKenzie or Allen. Any starter can go down at any time - all it takes is a line drive or a pulled muscle like Clevinger had last year. With Murphy's Law lurking around the corner we would probably have two starters go down the week after we traded Plutko.

But if the Braves are desperate enough to give up a top first base prospect (if they have one) then I'd be interested. Maybe Bryce Ball? I don't think Freddie Freeman is going anywhere. We don't have a first base prospect I'm impressed with and Carlos is getting into his mid-30's and makes a lot of money.

I'd love to package something for Shea Langeliers, a catcher who's their #5 prospect, but I doubt they'll let him go. They'll probably just move Josh Tomlin into the rotation. So far he's pitched 6.2 innings out of the bullpen allowing no runs, 2 hits and striking out 9. I hear he's up to 95 mph. OK, just kidding about that last part.

The Braves are 8-4 and in first place if you don't count the 3-1 Marlins. Their next three starters beginning tonight have ERA's of 8.22, 8.10, and 7.50. They just lost their ace for the season. You've got to believe they're eyeing the Indians rotation. I would definitely be talking to them about Plutko.

 

[Derek]

Plutko won’t net you anything helpful. More valuable to have him available for spot duty.

Not a big fan, but every team needs a guy that can step in, throw strikes and eat some innings when their number is called.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Here's one for you, jup...the tale of Trev and Clev.

Good friends, great rivals: The tale of Trev & Clev

They couldn't be wired more differently, but their thirst for knowledge and competition spurred them to forge a close friendship.

theathletic.com

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Plutko won’t net you anything helpful. More valuable to have him available for spot duty.

Not a big fan, but every team needs a guy that can step in, throw strikes and eat some innings when their number is called.

A corner outfielder who can hit .220 would be helpful. But with Soroka and Hamels done for the year they probably figure they have no chance so why give up a good prospect? I was thinking if they have a first baseman that is blocked by Freeman then maybe something could get done. The guy I mentioned is their 22nd ranked prospect and is only 22. Pluto is out of options and won't be here next year unless they decide to convert him permanently to the bullpen.

Teams like the Indians survive by trading 6th starters who can "eat some innings" and are "available for spot duty" for 22-year-olds who turn into long term starters. I'm always looking for another Pestano for Clevinger or Westbrook for Kluber deal. The Braves always seem to have a great farm system so I'd love to take advantage of their situation if possible. MLB.com ranks their farm system 8th with five players in the top 70. We won't get any of those, but maybe a future starter could be had.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

By the way, the Kluber for Clase trade is looking really good since Kluber unfortunately had to go on the 45-day DL. The Indians saved $6.5 M this year plus the $1 M buyout next year. Anything Clase gives them in the next 5-6 years is a bonus.

Even if Kluber was not traded and didn't get hurt I'm not sure he would be in the rotation based on his pre-injury performance last year. If he was they would have to send Plesac or Civale to Eastlake to pitch in simulated games.

 

[LL3]

A corner outfielder who can hit .220 would be helpful. But with Soroka and Hamels done for the year they probably figure they have no chance so why give up a good prospect? I was thinking if they have a first baseman that is blocked by Freeman then maybe something could get done. The guy I mentioned is their 22nd ranked prospect and is only 22. Pluto is out of options and won't be here next year unless they decide to convert him permanently to the bullpen.

Teams like the Indians survive by trading 6th starters who can "eat some innings" and are "available for spot duty" for 22-year-olds who turn into long term starters. I'm always looking for another Pestano for Clevinger or Westbrook for Kluber deal. The Braves always seem to have a great farm system so I'd love to take advantage of their situation if possible. MLB.com ranks their farm system 8th with five players in the top 70. We won't get any of those, but maybe a future starter could be had.

I am drawing a blank...how many 6th starters have we traded? Guys like Pestano had good years as a reliever, and Westbrook was a decent/goodl starter (may have been openning day starter in 2010?!?). The Indians have been great at searching the minors of other clubs for potential gems, and I trust they will continue to do the same.

 

[Derek]

I am drawing a blank...how many 6th starters have we traded? Guys like Pestano had good years as a reliever, and Westbrook was a decent/goodl starter (may have been openning day starter in 2010?!?). The Indians have been great at searching the minors of other clubs for potential gems, and I trust they will continue to do the same.

Yeah, when we traded Pestano he was pretty much washed. We were incredibly fortunate to find a hidden gem like Clevinger. Betting on being able to do that again (find a scuffling A ball starter with injury issues and develop him into a top-end starter) is a fool's errand.

It's certainly not a model you can try to replicate.

 

[LL3]

Yeah, when we traded Pestano he was pretty much washed. We were incredibly fortunate to find a hidden gem like Clevinger. Betting on being able to do that again (find a scuffling A ball starter with injury issues and develop him into a top-end starter) is a fool's errand.

It's certainly not a model you can try to replicate.

Yeah, we have been "luckier"/better than most at this. Plutko may not even return a choice lottery ticket, but even if he did, he has value to us now, and could make a difference in this season.

 

[Derek]

Yeah, we have been "luckier"/better than most at this. Plutko may not even return a choice lottery ticket, but even if he did, he has value to us now, and could make a difference in this season.

Agreed. As I said in my initial post on the matter, Plutko has far more value to us as a member of this roster than as a trade chip. And that's coming from someone who shudders when he takes the mound