2020 Starting Pitching Discussion

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Urban

All-Star
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
6,498
Reaction score
7,990
Points
113
A return of a prospect outside of a teams top ten is the most likely..
This is incredibly broad and outside of Top 30 is more appropriate and realistic

We need instances of unimpressive starting pitchers with unimpressive underlying statistics netting what is determined a decent haul at time of trade

Plutko's first start was ultimately good as he only allowed 2 runs in 6 innings. He walked 0, struck out 4, allowed 2 home runs, 14 fly balls...does any of this sound familiar?

It's a tiny sample size of 15 curve balls thown by Plutko in 2020. Statcast shows 1 total swinging strike from a CB to Abreu at the bottom of the strike zone. He's thrown 7 out of the zone and hasn't draw a chase yet. McCann shot a CB into the bleachers and Moncada floated one into RF for a single.

I trust what people have written about that he's gotten better in the offseason and I realize he's only had 1 opportunity to show it so far, but his first start was very much what we've seen from him before. There is really nothing to suggest he has value around the league like some are suggesting.

This'll be my last post on the subject as this topic has now been beaten into the ground.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
1,529
Points
113
Injuries around the league to pitchers are way up over previous years. The Twins already had a bullpen day against the Indians and the White Sox and Braves have one scheduled for this weekend. The Braves don't have a fifth starter at the moment. We're less than 15 games in and teams are having bullpen days.

There probably will be more teams who find themselves desperate for starting pitching. With over half the teams making the playoffs this year finding a decent 4th or 5th starter could be the difference between getting in and getting a piece of the playoff money.

It's possible there could be a greater than normal demand for starting pitchers this year due to excessive injuries and increased opportunities to make the playoffs. Teams short on starters who don't want to burn out their bullpens will be looking for rosters with extra starters, even guys who are BOR types, as long as they can take the ball every five days and give you a chance to win.

I think it's quite possible that there will be multiple teams who will see some value in adding Plutko. Not for a blue chip prospect, but for somebody who plays a position of strength in their farm system.

If the Indians don't trade him is he in their bullpen next year? He can't go to the minors, I don't see him in the rotation, and with the guys they have now plus Clase returning I don't see him in the bullpen, either. Really, where does he fit going forward?

Somebody will make an inquiry, possibly several teams depending on injuries. It makes sense to trade him now. It might not be the Braves but some team will see value. Whether their farm system depth matches up with our needs is the question.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

Out of the Rafters
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
8,853
Reaction score
15,246
Points
123
Injuries around the league to pitchers are way up over previous years. The Twins already had a bullpen day against the Indians and the White Sox and Braves have one scheduled for this weekend. The Braves don't have a fifth starter at the moment. We're less than 15 games in and teams are having bullpen days.

There probably will be more teams who find themselves desperate for starting pitching. With over half the teams making the playoffs this year finding a decent 4th or 5th starter could be the difference between getting in and getting a piece of the playoff money.

It's possible there could be a greater than normal demand for starting pitchers this year due to excessive injuries and increased opportunities to make the playoffs. Teams short on starters who don't want to burn out their bullpens will be looking for rosters with extra starters, even guys who are BOR types, as long as they can take the ball every five days and give you a chance to win.

I think it's quite possible that there will be multiple teams who will see some value in adding Plutko. Not for a blue chip prospect, but for somebody who plays a position of strength in their farm system.

If the Indians don't trade him is he in their bullpen next year? He can't go to the minors, I don't see him in the rotation, and with the guys they have now plus Clase returning I don't see him in the bullpen, either. Somebody will make an inquiry, possibly several teams depending on injuries. It makes sense to trade him now. It might not be the Braves but some team will see value. Whether their farm system depth matches up with our needs is the question.
Or you can hang onto him to do that same thing for us this year if we get hit by the injury bug.

Clevinger is injury prone. Cookie just came off cancer. Civale and Plesac have never pitched a full year at this level.

Even if you lose Plutko next year, we're a contender right now and I don't trade him just for the sake of it. Let someone actually offer a legit return, which for all the reasons mentioned, I doubt happens.
 

Derek

1 by land, 2 by sea, 3 Baerga
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
13,331
Reaction score
17,150
Points
123

Out of the Rafters at the Q

Out of the Rafters
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
8,853
Reaction score
15,246
Points
123

Derek

1 by land, 2 by sea, 3 Baerga
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
13,331
Reaction score
17,150
Points
123
Now, that we're officially 3x through the rotation:


NOTE: This does not include numbers from Plutko's relief appearance.

Screen Shot 2020-08-09 at 7.16.37 AM.png
Screen Shot 2020-08-09 at 7.17.27 AM.png
Screen Shot 2020-08-09 at 7.18.01 AM.png

Clevinger is unsurprisingly the one member of the staff that is scuffling a bit. It's easy to forget that he had that leg injury that was going to have him miss a chunk of the early season prior to the COVID shut down, but he's clearly not clicking right now and that's likely a big reason.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
1,529
Points
113
Now, that we're officially 3x through the rotation:


NOTE: This does not include numbers from Plutko's relief appearance.

View attachment 3931
View attachment 3932
View attachment 3933

Clevinger is unsurprisingly the one member of the staff that is scuffling a bit. It's easy to forget that he had that leg injury that was going to have him miss a chunk of the early season prior to the COVID shut down, but he's clearly not clicking right now and that's likely a big reason.
Good to know that once Clevinger fully recovers from his knee issue our rotation won't suck so much.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
1,529
Points
113
Here's the amazing thing. The Indians lead the majors in team ERA at 1.94. The Dodgers are second at 2.60. The league average is about 4.00.

But what's really impressive is that 9 of the 16 games have been against the Twins and White Sox. In the Twins 12 games against the rest of the league they are averaging 5.5 runs per game, which would tie them for first in scoring. The White Sox in their 10 games against the rest of the league are averaging 5.2 runs per game which would rank them 5th. So over half the Indians' games so far are against top five offenses. Yet their team ERA is by far the lowest in baseball.

The remaining 44 games include six against the Twins and five against the White Sox. The other 33 are against less potent offenses. If anything, the ERA should improve if they continue pitching at this level.

By the way, those five games against the White Sox where they only scored 13 runs....all five games were started by our 4, 5, and 6 starters.
 

CATS44

In the Rotation
Joined
Feb 25, 2020
Messages
1,139
Reaction score
948
Points
113
Two thoughts..

1) in re the idea that Plutkos stats are trending in the right direction...

Which stats?

Career...2019....2020 sss

K/9...6.68...6.42...6.43
BB/9...2.33...2.14...0.00
HR/9...2.12...1.81...2.57
GB%...29.2...31.2...28.2
FIP.....5.99...5.23...5.25

There are two others, directly tied together.

ERA...4.99...4.86...2.57
BABIP....271...280..211

The more things change, the more things stay the same. Plutko is just short of 29 yrs old.

2) Somebody...anybody...waiting for Clevinger to be a decent pitcher.

This had to be said in jest.

Over the past three full seasons, among AL pitchers with at least 400 IP he ranks top ten in

ERA, FIP, K/9, HR/9

And top seven over the last two seasons among those with 300 IP...including 3rd in ERA and 4th in FIP.

More than anything else, he needs to stay healthy.
 

Gson

Situational Stopper
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
352
Reaction score
250
Points
63
Injuries around the league to pitchers are way up over previous years. The Twins already had a bullpen day against the Indians and the White Sox and Braves have one scheduled for this weekend. The Braves don't have a fifth starter at the moment. We're less than 15 games in and teams are having bullpen days.

There probably will be more teams who find themselves desperate for starting pitching. With over half the teams making the playoffs this year finding a decent 4th or 5th starter could be the difference between getting in and getting a piece of the playoff money.

It's possible there could be a greater than normal demand for starting pitchers this year due to excessive injuries and increased opportunities to make the playoffs. Teams short on starters who don't want to burn out their bullpens will be looking for rosters with extra starters, even guys who are BOR types, as long as they can take the ball every five days and give you a chance to win.

I think it's quite possible that there will be multiple teams who will see some value in adding Plutko. Not for a blue chip prospect, but for somebody who plays a position of strength in their farm system.

If the Indians don't trade him is he in their bullpen next year? He can't go to the minors, I don't see him in the rotation, and with the guys they have now plus Clase returning I don't see him in the bullpen, either. Really, where does he fit going forward?

Somebody will make an inquiry, possibly several teams depending on injuries. It makes sense to trade him now. It might not be the Braves but some team will see value. Whether their farm system depth matches up with our needs is the question.
Queue's the typical reaction to a suggested Plutko trade: Nobody is going to trade anybody that is worth anything for a nothing impressive AAAA starting pitcher..

WRONG.. the end...

(ps.. starting pitching remains theee most valuable commodity in MLB, bar none)
 

jup

In the Rotation
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
427
Reaction score
501
Points
93
Here's the amazing thing. The Indians lead the majors in team ERA at 1.94. The Dodgers are second at 2.60. The league average is about 4.00.

But what's really impressive is that 9 of the 16 games have been against the Twins and White Sox. In the Twins 12 games against the rest of the league they are averaging 5.5 runs per game, which would tie them for first in scoring. The White Sox in their 10 games against the rest of the league are averaging 5.2 runs per game which would rank them 5th. So over half the Indians' games so far are against top five offenses. Yet their team ERA is by far the lowest in baseball.

The remaining 44 games include six against the Twins and five against the White Sox. The other 33 are against less potent offenses. If anything, the ERA should improve if they continue pitching at this level.

By the way, those five games against the White Sox where they only scored 13 runs....all five games were started by our 4, 5, and 6 starters.
Don't expect the starting pitching to remain this good, or you will be disappointed.

Pitching staffs, like hitters, have hot and cold streaks. Clearly the rotation is in a hot streak, unless you think their ERA is destined to go to zero because they are in a cold streak now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LL3

Derek

1 by land, 2 by sea, 3 Baerga
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
13,331
Reaction score
17,150
Points
123
Two thoughts..

1) in re the idea that Plutkos stats are trending in the right direction...

Which stats?

Career...2019....2020 sss

K/9...6.68...6.42...6.43
BB/9...2.33...2.14...0.00
HR/9...2.12...1.81...2.57
GB%...29.2...31.2...28.2
FIP.....5.99...5.23...5.25

There are two others, directly tied together.

ERA...4.99...4.86...2.57
BABIP....271...280..211

The more things change, the more things stay the same. Plutko is just short of 29 yrs old.

2) Somebody...anybody...waiting for Clevinger to be a decent pitcher.

This had to be said in jest.

Over the past three full seasons, among AL pitchers with at least 400 IP he ranks top ten in

ERA, FIP, K/9, HR/9

And top seven over the last two seasons among those with 300 IP...including 3rd in ERA and 4th in FIP.

More than anything else, he needs to stay healthy.
Saying Clev hasn’t been himself yet this year isn’t a hot take, right?

It’s ok to point out when our great players are just a little off.

Personally, I don’t think he’s even close to the guy we saw last year. So, it’s really exciting to think about what we can accomplish once he returns to that level.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
1,529
Points
113
Don't expect the starting pitching to remain this good, or you will be disappointed.

Pitching staffs, like hitters, have hot and cold streaks. Clearly the rotation is in a hot streak, unless you think their ERA is destined to go to zero because they are in a cold streak now.
Nobody could ever expect the starting pitching to remain this good but there are two things to consider.

1. The remaining 44 games will have a higher percentage of weak hitting teams than we've seen so far.

2. Clevinger got off to a slow start due to the knee surgery but seems to be putting it together.
 

DCTribefan

Situational Stopper
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
419
Reaction score
222
Points
43
Saying Clev hasn’t been himself yet this year isn’t a hot take, right?

It’s ok to point out when our great players are just a little off.

Personally, I don’t think he’s even close to the guy we saw last year. So, it’s really exciting to think about what we can accomplish once he returns to that level.
Agree that Clevinger is the key to the Tribe’s fortunes this season. If he returns to early 2019 form, look out! And if he does not, not much else matters, IMO.
 

Kevalier

Be a belieber
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
2,504
Reaction score
3,710
Points
113
I wonder if the Indians and Braves would explore a deal that sends Clev to Atlanta for Cristian Pache and other pieces.
 

Remove Video Ad

Total amount
$950.00
Goal
$400.00
Donation ends:
Top