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2020 Starting Pitching Discussion

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
We should just trade them both. Maybe we can get a bat, finally.
Don't trade either one. They prove they're not COVID positive, they get fined for violating league rules, they apologize to their teammates, and we move on with the understanding that this can never happen again.
 
Clearly Plesac feels he and Clevinger didn't do anything to endanger anyone and there's a lot of anger at the media, which he described as "malicious". He added, "It breaks my heart for people to think I'm a bad teammate and a bad person". He claims he found some research that says there's no problem as long as the group is ten people or less and they maintain a distance of six feet. That sounds ridiculous. What if 9 of the 10 people are infected? He apparently spent hours with this group of friends at two different locations.

If a justification is included with an apology, the apology is trash to me. Anything extravagant or grandiose about your actions or future growth beyond normal conversation is also transparent.

I have found that the best way to move along isn't even to say "I'm sorry" or "I apologize." It's usually best to say what you should have done and what you will do. The simpler the better.

My two boys playing football and break a lamp.
Bad: "I'm sorry, I thought brick hands could catch."
Weird: "Today I have realized that taking care of other's possessions is pivotal in letting them know you understand their value. Throwing foam footballs made by Nerf, a subsidary of Hasbro, within the confines of these walls was not in the best interest of my parental units.
Good: "We shouldn't have thrown the football in here. We'll take it outside."

I miss a due date for an assignment at work:
Bad: "I apologize. I was helping Larry get his charts done before tomorrow's meeting"
Weird: "I have realized that my recent actions within this organization have caused a bottleneck that will affect many others outside of my current department. This does not reflect my true identity, but is only a hiccup in my normal performance."
Good: "I should have prioritized better. I'll get it to you today."
 
Don't trade either one. They prove they're not COVID positive, they get fined for violating league rules, they apologize to their teammates, and we move on with the understanding that this can never happen again.

Good luck teaching that lesson to children.
 
Good luck teaching that lesson to children.
Maybe I'm naive but this had to be a humiliating experience for both of them. Their own teammates called them liars and said they need to be more "selfless". They had to drive, individually, five hours from Cleveland to Detroit and back in order to explain themselves to their teammates. Clevinger will miss a couple of starts and Plesac at least one. They have to spend 10 days at the minor league camp while their teammates are competing for a playoff spot. Their reputations have taken a huge hit and it may end up costing them money.

I think they'll get the lesson and there won't be a problem for the last five weeks of the regulary season and there definitely won't be a problem in the playoffs. Next season they're start over with a clean slate like Clase.
 
The 54 strikeouts [by Shane Bieber] are the most in team history after the first five starts of the season. They are tied for the third most in the big leagues since 1906 behind Nolan Ryan at 59 and Randy Johnson with 55.

Third most strikeouts in the first five starts since 1906. Insane. That means Walter Johnson never did it. Neither did Koufax, Clemens, Seaver, or any of those Hall of Famers.

By the way, where do Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson rank all-time in terms of strikeouts? Yep, 1 and 2.
 
By the way, who is the all-time career leader in strikeouts per 9 innings?

Yu Darvish at 11.1.

Corey Kluber is 11th at 9.80. Chris Archer, who the Indians traded as a minor leaguer, is 10th at 9.83.

Oliver Perez and Carlos Carrasco are 15th and 16th. Sam McDowell is 25th.

I had no idea Oliver Perez ranks 15th all-time in K's per 9.

Shane Bieber is at 14.0 after five starts.
 
Maybe I'm naive but this had to be a humiliating experience for both of them. Their own teammates called them liars and said they need to be more "selfless". They had to drive, individually, five hours from Cleveland to Detroit and back in order to explain themselves to their teammates. Clevinger will miss a couple of starts and Plesac at least one. They have to spend 10 days at the minor league camp while their teammates are competing for a playoff spot. Their reputations have taken a huge hit and it may end up costing them money.

I think they'll get the lesson and there won't be a problem for the last five weeks of the regulary season and there definitely won't be a problem in the playoffs. Next season they're start over with a clean slate like Clase.
Clean slate with a new uniform (sorry but it won’t be the Spiders either).
 

5x through the rotation:

SwingingStrike%
Bieber - 19.8%
Carrasco - 13.6%
Plesac - 13.5%
Clevinger - 12.1%
Plutko - 11.9%
Civale - 11.0%

Contact%
Bieber - 58.2%
Clevinger - 69.9%
Carrasco - 70.3%
Plesac - 71.8%
Civale - 76.2%
Plutko - 78.8%

FirstPitchStrike%
Civale - 67.4%
Plesac - 66.2%
Bieber - 65.9%
Plutko - 61.5%
Clevinger - 60.3%
Carrasco - 57.9%

All the plate discipline numbers are pretty interesting to me. Without listing off all the leaders, a few other cool things:
- Bieber has BY FAR the lowest percentage of pitches thrown in the strike zone. Speaks volumes to the level of command he has over his pitches that he only throws 1/3 of his pitches in the strike zone while not walking guys.
- Hitters are swinging at a much higher percentage of Plutko's pitches in the strike zone than anybody else.
 
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Yep, that Ohio water seems to still be treating their starting pitchers well

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The Twins are 16-9 but might be having an issue with their starters. They're being carried by two guys; Dobnak (4-1, 1.42) and Maeda (3-0, 2.27). Their expected ace, Jose Berrios, is 1-3, 5.92. Those three have started five games each. Nobody else has started more than two games as they search for pitchers who can fill the #4 and #5 spots in the rotation.

Rich Hill, age 40, has already been on the IL with a "tired arm". He came back last night and didn't make it out of the third inning against the Brewers. Jake Odorizzi has two starts, seven innings, and a 5.14 ERA. He's been out with a back strain and they're "easing" him back into it. Tyler Clippard is the only other pitcher with two starts and he's not a starter. Homer Bailey has only pitched in one game and is on the IL.

I wonder if the ineffectiveness of Berrios and the injuries to their BOR starters are going to catch up with them. Overall the Twins starters are 7th in ERA (3rd in the A.L.) at 3.46, but I wonder if they'll be able to keep it up.

The Twins relievers are 10th in innings pitched at 104; over four innings per game. The Indians are 28th at 68. So after 25 games the Indians bullpen has thrown 36 fewer innings, which projects to 233 fewer innings over a full season. If this were a 162-game season the Twins bullpen would be fried by the time they got to August. They are fortunate this is a short season considering the problems they're having with the back end of the rotation.
 
You gotta expect some sort of regression from Dobnak at some point too. A career 1.51 ERA just isn't sustainable for someone with his stuff and peripherals. Especially once batters have a third go at him in a start.
Yes, he's only averaging 5 innings per start. They seem to be protecting him.
 
FWIW, Jason Lloyd of The Athletic thinks the Clevinger/Plesac thing will blow over.

...the Indians can recall both Plesac and Clevinger next week, and they could muddle through the rest of this season together as a grumbling, dysfunctional unit that still performs at a high level....Not everyone has to like each other. Sometimes, you just have to shut up and do your job.

In fact, I tend to think that’s exactly how this will go.


I saw a Mandy Bell interview and she agreed that they won't be traded. I can't see the Indians keeping them down long enough to cost them a year of service time and delay their free agency by a year. That would be a huge hit considering nobody ended up getting the virus as a result of their actions. It would bring the player's union into it and raise the question of whether the Indians' action was more self-serving and not justified.

So I think they'll be back in a week or so, but there's some wishful thinking in that.
 

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