2021-2022 Cavaliers General Discussion: Trade Deadline Edition

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Who Should the Cavs Trade For?

  • Murray

    Votes: 18 37.5%
  • Lavert

    Votes: 17 35.4%
  • White

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Seth Curry

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Schroeder

    Votes: 7 14.6%
  • Tatum

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • Hart

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • Ingram

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Brown

    Votes: 2 4.2%
  • Jim Chones

    Votes: 9 18.8%

  • Total voters
    48
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Dr. Claw

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Red-hot Bulls up next, and that will suck major amounts of ass. I expect the Cavs to compete, though.
I don't like the losses (especially to the Jazz), but there are things to be learned.

Cavs GOTTA do something about offensive schemes, and emphasis setting hard screens. I felt like Okoro set the hardest screen and he's basically playing in guard position. They find themselves up against a wall more often than not trying to play the half court game.

Personnel might limit this. Okoro definitely is this year's "Cedi" in that regard. It sucks that Rubio (or Garland) has to occasionally be the shooting guard -- catch and shoot for both of them is pretty awkward.

The shooting, even layups, is not good. Somehow the Cavs hold off what looks like might be a complete blowout and avoids garbage time if they're losing.
 

Heat Check

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I know people want to remain positive – me included – but I can't ignore the warning signs that are on display.

The Cavs are in the process of being figured out by the League. And the main problem is the lack of shooting. Mobley is extremely promising as an overall player, but right now, I count him among the many non-shooters on this team. We regularly use lineups with Evan, Okoro and Rubio playing together and that just doesn't work. Sure these guys can still make an occasional shot, but you can't build anything on that. Teams want them to shoot. We're playing right into the hands of the defense. They're not left open all the time by accident.

Mobley and Allen are a great fit defensively, but as long as we don't use the rookie as a high post playmaker with any regularity, they're a pretty awful with on the other side of the ball. This was on full display against the Bucks –Evan's defender was able to constanty cheat into the paint when Garland and Allen tried to get their high pick and rolls going. He simply can't space the floor yet.

Our inability to get ANY useful offense out of guys like Windler, Wade, Valentine and Pangos is just terrible. All these guys were supposed to be able at least to bring some shooting. As it is, we're having to lean way too hard on old man Kevin Love making his shots off the bench.

There are no easy solutions. However, I'm now ready to move Cedi into the starting lineup and bench Okoro. I know it complicates things when the 2nd stringers come in, but I'm hopeful the return of Wade will help there somewhat.

When our shooting guard comes up with zero points against a team as good as Milwaukee, that's not just his problem. It makes everyone else's job too difficult. We can't use the big guys effectively because Markkanen is the only one spacing the floor (which also means we're wasting him too because we HAVE to park him into the corner for whole possessions at a time) and Garland has to battle much bigger defenders and eager help D all the time.

Okoro had his shot. Now it's time to try something else.

Side note: what happened to our celebrated switching? Suddenly we're just desperately chasing people over screens and getting burned. One big reason is that Garland is mercilessly targeted by teams. He pretty much offers zero resistance on D at the point of attack. This too is a problem that's not easily solvable. It's just a fact that being 6'1'' in the modern NBA has some major drawbacks that cannot be ignored.

Cedi is not much of a half court defender, but at least he brings some size into the starting backcourt if he (hopefully) replaces Okoro.

Make it so, JBB.
 
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cabs

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There are no warning signs, they lost two close games to contenders on a back to back after blowing out 3 above .500 teams on the road.
If we were losing to bad teams sure but we arent and we are above .500 despite a very hard schedule.
Cedi is finally playing well because he is an energizer bunny off the bench, he is not a starter. Why harm two players because one is struggling.
If we wanna try something new at the sg position then give Lamar a shot, at least he looks confident shooting 3's even if he has no real reason to be.
 

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There are no warning signs, they lost two close games to contenders on a back to back after blowing out 3 above .500 teams on the road.
If we were losing to bad teams sure but we arent and we are above .500 despite a very hard schedule.
Cedi is finally playing well because he is an energizer bunny off the bench, he is not a starter. Why harm two players because one is struggling.
If we wanna try something new at the sg position then give Lamar a shot, at least he looks confident shooting 3's even if he has no real reason to be.

Scoring wise, Lamar is purely a spot up shooter. As I said above, even that does have considerable value on this team currently... but it's not ideal for a SG.

IMO anyone playing at the 2 needs to bring some steady ballhandling to help out if the defense pressures/traps the PG. Stevens is not really that guy. He basically doesn't dribble in half court scenarios.
 
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dms

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Scoring wise, Lamar is purely a spot up shooter. As I said above, even that does have considerable value on this team currently... but it's not ideal for a SG.

IMO anyone playing at the 2 needs to bring some steady ballhandling to help out if the defense pressures/traps the PG. Stevens is not really that guy. He basically doesn't dribble in half court scenarios.
I know you don't like him, but that's why this team needs/misses Sexton. Okoro is a disaster in the starting lineup, for all the people saying you have to play him for him to improve, that's a saying for guys getting no or limited minutes, Okoro's gotten 30 minutes a night for nearly a season and a half and we've seen zero improvement. His shooting percentages are bad enough, but when you consider 90% of his 3 point attempts are tried with no one within 5 feet of him, are incredible for a professional. As i've said before, his lack of scoring really isn't the problem, the problem is the opposition totally ignores him, allowing them an extra defender. If we make the playoffs I doubt this team has a chance in a series simply because any team playing us soon understands what they have to do, it's tough to adopt to our style for one game but over a series the 4 on 5 offense will burn us.
I doubt Stevens is the answer but at least his game has grown. Last year it was cringe worthy to see him about to shoot, this year it's just part of the game. I'd switch those two just to see how it works.
 

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I know you don't like him, but that's why this team needs/misses Sexton. Okoro is a disaster in the starting lineup, for all the people saying you have to play him for him to improve, that's a saying for guys getting no or limited minutes, Okoro's gotten 30 minutes a night for nearly a season and a half and we've seen zero improvement. His shooting percentages are bad enough, but when you consider 90% of his 3 point attempts are tried with no one within 5 feet of him, are incredible for a professional. As i've said before, his lack of scoring really isn't the problem, the problem is the opposition totally ignores him, allowing them an extra defender. If we make the playoffs I doubt this team has a chance in a series simply because any team playing us soon understands what they have to do, it's tough to adopt to our style for one game but over a series the 4 on 5 offense will burn us.
I doubt Stevens is the answer but at least his game has grown. Last year it was cringe worthy to see him about to shoot, this year it's just part of the game. I'd switch those two just to see how it works.
Yeah, to me it's clear that Okoro's time in the starting lineup should be over. He is a serious liability.
 

cabs

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Caruso will be out when we play the bulls due to injury. Coby White has covid and will be out too. Derozan and Javonte Green are out atm but may not have covid so a chance to return.
 

Jscc

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We don't have the secondary playmaker needed at SG on the roster imo. We got Rubio and that's really it. The team tried using Cedi as that type of guy before and it is just not who he is.

If we want to win more games against better competition, than the core (Garland, Mobley, JA) need to take that next step with the personnel that is available to them. That may mean Garland will have to fight through tougher 4v5 defense and turn it over/take non-ideal shots or tasking Mobley with either spacing (and living with his 1/7 struggles) until he gets it or letting him make plays at the elbow.

They are doing that fine right now, as cabs mentioned. They are winning and losing games against teams that they should be.
 

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We don't have the secondary playmaker needed at SG on the roster imo. We got Rubio and that's really it. The team tried using Cedi as that type of guy before and it is just not who he is.

If we want to win more games against better competition, than the core (Garland, Mobley, JA) need to take that next step with the personnel that is available to them. That may mean Garland will have to fight through tougher 4v5 defense and turn it over/take non-ideal shots or tasking Mobley with either spacing (and living with his 1/7 struggles) until he gets it or letting him make plays at the elbow.

They are doing that fine right now, as cabs mentioned. They are winning and losing games against teams that they should be.
In the Mobley thread, I just outlined a plan for his increased use as a half court playmaker. IMO that's the only way to go.

Leaning more and more on Garland's dribble-heavy offense is a recent idea partly brought on by necessity (all the injuries and guys missing time). Now we have to stop that and give some freedom to Mobley at the elbow.
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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Oof. So many bad decisions by the coach in this game that cost the Cavs the game.

-First, riding Okoro when he clearly fucked up the Cavs offence and what they were supposed to do. Bucks over help and allow open 3pt shots from the corners. SO what does this coach do? he puts Okoro in the corner...makes sense. Then every PnR you do you are faced with a wall and your oop opportunities are non existent. Okoro was a fucking disgrace in this game regardless. Just individually...what are you waiting for? sub him the fuck out.

-Going away from lineups that worked just because you had your rotations made up already. Every time the Cavs made a run with a certain lineup, JBB made a sub that fucked the run up. Yes, he shouldn't have inserted Mobley in the 4th. That was crucial.

-Not taking advantage of Cousins on the defensive end. There is absolutely no reason to not play lineups with the greatest spacing against this Bucks team, and there is certainly no reason not to do so against the Bucks with Cousins on the floor. You make him defend the PnR in space. Jesus christ...he can't do shit. But when you have Okoro and some other bad shooters in there, you are playing right into their hands. You have to read and react as a coach and make the correct sub. He never does that. It's infuriating.

Winnable game if the coach had better gameplay and made slightly better rotations. Not asking for too much. His rotations were absolutely dreadful. Bucks suck defending the corner 3 and you played right into their hands.
 

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Oof. So many bad decisions by the coach in this game that cost the Cavs the game.

-First, riding Okoro when he clearly fucked up the Cavs offence and what they were supposed to do. Bucks over help and allow open 3pt shots from the corners. SO what does this coach do? he puts Okoro in the corner...makes sense. Then every PnR you do you are faced with a wall and your oop opportunities are non existent. Okoro was a fucking disgrace in this game regardless. Just individually...what are you waiting for? sub him the fuck out.

-Going away from lineups that worked just because you had your rotations made up already. Every time the Cavs made a run with a certain lineup, JBB made a sub that fucked the run up. Yes, he shouldn't have inserted Mobley in the 4th. That was crucial.

-Not taking advantage of Cousins on the defensive end. There is absolutely no reason to not play lineups with the greatest spacing against this Bucks team, and there is certainly no reason not to do so against the Bucks with Cousins on the floor. You make him defend the PnR in space. Jesus christ...he can't do shit. But when you have Okoro and some other bad shooters in there, you are playing right into their hands. You have to read and react as a coach and make the correct sub. He never does that. It's infuriating.

Winnable game if the coach had better gameplay and made slightly better rotations. Not asking for too much. His rotations were absolutely dreadful. Bucks suck defending the corner 3 and you played right into their hands.
Agree with everything in this post.

I don't get why people are treating this game as a "schedule loss". IMO it was clearly winnable.
 

chuck0609

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They lacked their usual energy last night (still great effort, but we’re a bit off). Back to back games against elite teams, with I believe 16 games this month.
After the bulls game they finally catch a “break” in the scheduling. I just hope they not overly gassed against the teams they should now be beating.
 

Man Called X

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Oof. So many bad decisions by the coach in this game that cost the Cavs the game.

-First, riding Okoro when he clearly fucked up the Cavs offence and what they were supposed to do. Bucks over help and allow open 3pt shots from the corners. SO what does this coach do? he puts Okoro in the corner...makes sense. Then every PnR you do you are faced with a wall and your oop opportunities are non existent. Okoro was a fucking disgrace in this game regardless. Just individually...what are you waiting for? sub him the fuck out.

-Going away from lineups that worked just because you had your rotations made up already. Every time the Cavs made a run with a certain lineup, JBB made a sub that fucked the run up. Yes, he shouldn't have inserted Mobley in the 4th. That was crucial.

-Not taking advantage of Cousins on the defensive end. There is absolutely no reason to not play lineups with the greatest spacing against this Bucks team, and there is certainly no reason not to do so against the Bucks with Cousins on the floor. You make him defend the PnR in space. Jesus christ...he can't do shit. But when you have Okoro and some other bad shooters in there, you are playing right into their hands. You have to read and react as a coach and make the correct sub. He never does that. It's infuriating.

Winnable game if the coach had better gameplay and made slightly better rotations. Not asking for too much. His rotations were absolutely dreadful. Bucks suck defending the corner 3 and you played right into their hands.
Normally, I'd be all for attacking Cousins. But it seemed like the refs were determined to call the game like he was still a superstar.
 

weepinwillow

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teams fine, only real concern is another rash of injuries/illnesses to starters. Good deal of dead legs v Bucks, but the competed till the end. Defense keeps them in games, and that will carry over the season.
 

Nphan

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Oof. So many bad decisions by the coach in this game that cost the Cavs the game.

-First, riding Okoro when he clearly fucked up the Cavs offence and what they were supposed to do. Bucks over help and allow open 3pt shots from the corners. SO what does this coach do? he puts Okoro in the corner...makes sense. Then every PnR you do you are faced with a wall and your oop opportunities are non existent. Okoro was a fucking disgrace in this game regardless. Just individually...what are you waiting for? sub him the fuck out.

-Going away from lineups that worked just because you had your rotations made up already. Every time the Cavs made a run with a certain lineup, JBB made a sub that fucked the run up. Yes, he shouldn't have inserted Mobley in the 4th. That was crucial.

-Not taking advantage of Cousins on the defensive end. There is absolutely no reason to not play lineups with the greatest spacing against this Bucks team, and there is certainly no reason not to do so against the Bucks with Cousins on the floor. You make him defend the PnR in space. Jesus christ...he can't do shit. But when you have Okoro and some other bad shooters in there, you are playing right into their hands. You have to read and react as a coach and make the correct sub. He never does that. It's infuriating.

Winnable game if the coach had better gameplay and made slightly better rotations. Not asking for too much. His rotations were absolutely dreadful. Bucks suck defending the corner 3 and you played right into their hands.
Someone mentioned that JBB was the Cavs Mark Jackson. Might be time to look for a Steve Kerr.
 
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