2021-2022 Cavaliers General Discussion

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narbar32

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I love the ridiculous narrative of signing these washed up end-of-bench players as "veteran leaders" or "locker room guys". Not everyone is Udonis Haslem.

Davis has 6 fouls to give and that's probably it.

It's weird to expand the reaction to Ed Davis to apply to every signing. Not only do I wonder where you are seeing all these examples of this "ridiculous narrative" treating every end-of-bench signing as though they're Udonis Haslem--especially because we seem to rarely sign seasoned vets for the end of our bench--but Ed Davis actually DOES have a reputation around the league as a positive veteran locker room presence. And he'll grab you a few boards with those 6 fouls, too, thank you very much :chuckle:

I actually would've agreed more if we were talking about JaVale McGee around this time last year, but then of course I was dead fucking wrong about him; he was an AWESOME presence on this roster and I wish we still had him.
 

Cavatt

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It's weird to expand the reaction to Ed Davis to apply to every signing. Not only do I wonder where you are seeing all these examples of this "ridiculous narrative" treating every end-of-bench signing as though they're Udonis Haslem--especially because we seem to rarely sign seasoned vets for the end of our bench--but Ed Davis actually DOES have a reputation around the league as a positive veteran locker room presence. And he'll grab you a few boards with those 6 fouls, too, thank you very much :chuckle:

I actually would've agreed more if we were talking about JaVale McGee around this time last year, but then of course I was dead fucking wrong about him; he was an AWESOME presence on this roster and I wish we still had him.

100%

We know this team needs vets and the front office knows it too. The kids are getting high on their own supply and saying "playoffs", but are they really ready to take it to that level? I don't think they can get there without some level headed vets.

This first stretch of the season is going to be hard. I think it is possible it could derail the season. That loss to Chicago last year broke the team's spirit. They need to be resilient and vets are going to help with that.
 

I'mWithDan

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Wasn't Okoro the consensus pick here at RCF?

I've been a pretty harsh critic of his......I don't know that he was an egregious selection, draft slot wise but his fit generally made no sense. I think many people mocked him in that 4-8 range.......but I think as we have seen, he's maybe a player better suited as a physical 2 than he is a player who can realistically play the 3 as this team is constructed.

Haliburton was the best compliment to whoever we wanted to choose at the lead guard spot (and had such an amazing analytical profile)......but it appears (if Koby is being honest about Sexton extension talks), that we are driving that small guard experiment off a cliff and hoping a big gust of air keeps us from a fiery death. :chuckle: So Haliburton must not have been a realsitic option. Okongwu was an interesting guy as well but his health may just generally fail him and we'll never know. But the Hawks have been a pretty smart team here and took him, so I suspect if he can get healthy, he'll likely be a good pro.

At this point, having struck gold with Mobley, all we are hoping for with Okoro is Iggy outcomes. Mobley has shifted the calculus a lot IMO, in a good way. That is what landing what looks to be a true franchise player does for you. When Isaac stops having to be the 3rd best guy on a team and can now be the 4th or 5th, you are potentially getting somewhere from a talent perspective.
 

ajs1028

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I wouldn't. Nesmith can't guard anyone. If neither player improves, then they're both bench players. If Okoro can get his shot falling, he'll be an all star. It's the gamble you make when you draft that type of player. None of Brown, Butler, or Leonard shot well their rookie seasons.
Actually he is just as good at guarding people as okoro. Plus his shot is way better than okoro can ever dream of. Just watching the two, you can tell that Nesmith will be a better shooter
 

DeeThree

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Come on bro. There's a lot of things you can criticize Okoro for, but this has hot take written all over it.

If your life depended on making one shot against either Okoro or Nesmith, you're telling me you'd rather be guarded by Okoro? GTFO
Yes
 

Ohioplayer00

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Takes 2 to tangle other teams probably new this draft was long term projects as Ozone mention……And Cleveland did try to trade in the AB draft, other teams new the same thing……
I don’t remember any trades being explored and I paying attention to all of the rumors before and up to the draft (hoping the Cavs would trade the pick)
Never heard any Cavs talk about trade inquiries!
 

The Human Q-Tip

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I don’t remember any trades being explored and I paying attention to all of the rumors before and up to the draft (hoping the Cavs would trade the pick)
Never heard any Cavs talk about trade inquiries!
I remember hearing that the Cavs were willing to trade down but found nobody willing to offer anything of value to trade up. I never really heard anything more specific than that though.
 

JJ_PR

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It's weird to expand the reaction to Ed Davis to apply to every signing. Not only do I wonder where you are seeing all these examples of this "ridiculous narrative" treating every end-of-bench signing as though they're Udonis Haslem--especially because we seem to rarely sign seasoned vets for the end of our bench--but Ed Davis actually DOES have a reputation around the league as a positive veteran locker room presence. And he'll grab you a few boards with those 6 fouls, too, thank you very much :chuckle:

I actually would've agreed more if we were talking about JaVale McGee around this time last year, but then of course I was dead fucking wrong about him; he was an AWESOME presence on this roster and I wish we still had him.
JaVale was a pleasant surprise, both on & off the court.
 

ajs1028

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Come on bro. There's a lot of things you can criticize Okoro for, but this has hot take written all over it.

If your life depended on making one shot against either Okoro or Nesmith, you're telling me you'd rather be guarded by Okoro? GTFO
I watch every game. I really don't see Okoro as this great defensive stopper.
Come on bro. There's a lot of things you can criticize Okoro for, but this has hot take written all over it.

If your life depended on making one shot against either Okoro or Nesmith, you're telling me you'd rather be guarded by Okoro? GTFO
Yes. I rather have Nesmith. Better shooter. He can dribble as well. The narrative that Okoro is some type of stopper is a joke. When I watch the games, it seems whoever he is guarding is having a career night. If you guys play Fanduel or Draft kings, take the small forward or shooting guard on the team that the Cavs are playing that night. With Okoro guarding them, they play better than their average points per night.
 

cavsfever

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Come on bro. There's a lot of things you can criticize Okoro for, but this has hot take written all over it.

If your life depended on making one shot against either Okoro or Nesmith, you're telling me you'd rather be guarded by Okoro? GTFO

Okoro seems like a nicer guy, less ruthless, smiles more. When I told him that if I didn't make this shot someone was going to kill me, he might just let me score that one time.
 

weepinwillow

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Yes. I rather have Nesmith. Better shooter. He can dribble as well. The narrative that Okoro is some type of stopper is a joke. When I watch the games, it seems whoever he is guarding is having a career night. If you guys play Fanduel or Draft kings, take the small forward or shooting guard on the team that the Cavs are playing that night. With Okoro guarding them, they play better than their average points per night.
Okoro is a very good defender. He knows where the help is supposed to be, knows how to force the player to that help, knows where he is supposed to rotate to, stays down on the pump fakes, closes out on the strong hand without losing leverage, moves his feet & has quick hands. The issues you speak of are a team defense problem, not an individual issue w/Okoro.
 

narbar32

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Okoro is a very good defender. He knows where the help is supposed to be, knows how to force the player to that help, knows where he is supposed to rotate to, stays down on the pump fakes, closes out on the strong hand without losing leverage, moves his feet & has quick hands. The issues you speak of are a team defense problem, not an individual issue w/Okoro.

I don't know how I can simultaneously agree and disagree with you completely.

Okoro has the *look* of a good defender--not just his physical attributes, but the way he plays defense, in all the aspects you mentioned. But at the same time, he just seems to get absolutely cooked by whomever he's guarding night to night. And despite the prevailing thought that it's because he's often playing out of position as a SF when he's really a SG, it doesn't seem to matter whether he's guarding a SG or SF.

Just this preseason, with perhaps some admitted confirmation bias in there, I've watched DeRozan, Lavine, and Brogdan torch him when he's been [trying to] guard them one on one, and all of those guys are SG-sized players. He closes hard, doesn't bite on fakes, but they still just blow by him or shoot over him.

The easy and logical excuse has been that he was just a rookie last year and that he was repeatedly thrown to the fire against the toughest wing assignment every single game, but the toughest assignments consistently did exactly what they were supposed to do against him with very few wins in his favor or even stalemates--far more often they looked especially able to get whatever they wanted. And that's fine, but to be known as a good defender, shouldn't you have to slow some guys down? I mean, our much-maligned incumbent starter at SG is just as good at getting torched.

I don't pretend to be some great basketball mind so it very well might just be the case that I'm missing some of the nuance in there that supports him being (or promising to be) a strong defender. In fact, that's exactly what I'm hoping is the case.
 
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Okoro is too short or too slow. too short to guard SF and too slow to close out on SG. His offense if non existent. He is a bust, Will be out of the league in 2023.
 

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