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2021 Draft Prospects Thread

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Let me try to clarify, then.

I, like (at least) a few others, have doubts that Baker Mayfield is the right QB to win a championship with this team.

I, like several others, are excited about the idea of Zach Wilson as the QB of the Cleveland Browns going forward.

Several folks think those are foolish things to think.

The mock draft I posted is the first I've seen have Wilson as a 1st rounder, and has him going to the team many of us dislike most.

I asked how those "several folks" would feel about Wilson going to the team they likely hate most.

#ThatsIt
I mean, if that's how you feel, then defend your take that Wilson is a better prospect than Baker.

Trying to fear people into agreeing with you because the Steelers might draft him is asinine. Because, if Baker is better than Wilson, we'd be idiots to waste a first round pick just to keep him from another team.
 
I mean, if that's how you feel, then defend your take that Wilson is a better prospect than Baker.

Trying to fear people into agreeing with you because the Steelers might draft him is asinine. Because, if Baker is better than Wilson, we'd be idiots to waste a first round pick just to keep him from another team.

The thing is, im not trying to *fear* people into agreeing with me. Primarily because its never that deep to me, but also because I don't get paid to formulate or give my opinion. I know there's passing matches lots of times in here, but I'm genuinely asking other people's opinions on something/someone i like. Yes, I have reasons to feel the way I do, but im just as likely to be wrong as I am right. But, in order to find out, we're talking 2-3yrs down the line. That feels like too big a commitment to "challenge" a bunch of folks that exist only on these screens (not meant to be an insult). #FriendlyBanter
 
I asked how those "several folks" would feel about Wilson going to the team they likely hate most.
Remember that time the Browns traded ahead of the Steelers so they couldn't draft Njoku? The Steelers had to settle for T.J. Watt instead.

Don't worry about what other teams are doing. Good teams, like the Steelers, will find talent or develop talent all over the place. The Browns need to focus on building a team that fits what they are trying to do, not cock-blocking the Steelers.

But to answer your question, I would simply hope he is a flop. First round QB's are not a science, hell even top 10 QB's are not a science. Maybe he turns out to be a Paxton Lynch.
 
I mean, if that's how you feel, then defend your take that Wilson is a better prospect than Baker.

Trying to fear people into agreeing with you because the Steelers might draft him is asinine. Because, if Baker is better than Wilson, we'd be idiots to waste a first round pick just to keep him from another team.

If Zach Wilson played at a power five school, Zach Wilson would be a top five pick.

Instead, he’s at BYU, driving multiple hours to Cali to train with QB Gurus, pros (Drew Brees) on his own dime during COVID. And he went from a guaranteed never, to a likely first rounder. He has incredible arm talent. He’s incredibly mobile. Him being taken by Pittsburg, IMO, would make us keep having the worst QB in the division. Not a fan of that.
 
Continuing with the players on the other side of the ball and positions of need, here's a good article on Missouri linebacker Nick Bolton:


The FWAA and the Nagurski Trophy named Nick Bolton National Player of the Week for his play against LSU two weeks ago, and he was rewarded again with SEC defensive player of the week after his performance against Kentucky. He is off to a blistering start to the season four games in.

He is only 6'0 tall which is a legitimate knock on his ceiling in the NFL. However, he continues to be a factor in pass coverage. Last season he right there with Patrick Queen in coverage efficiency while stacking up better tackling numbers.

 
If Zach Wilson played at a power five school, Zach Wilson would be a top five pick.

Instead, he’s at BYU, driving multiple hours to Cali to train with QB Gurus, pros (Drew Brees) on his own dime during COVID. And he went from a guaranteed never, to a likely first rounder. He has incredible arm talent. He’s incredibly mobile. Him being taken by Pittsburg, IMO, would make us keep having the worst QB in the division. Not a fan of that.

Emphasis that it is just your opinion - some people don't care if he's taken by the Steelers. Others who might not like Wilson would be happy if Pittsburgh blew a 1st on him.

Regardless, I think we can all agree that there is a high level of ambiguity with players in any NFL draft. Almost everyone is overhyped or underhyped and we don't know how their careers will turn out. 2018 is a perfect example itself.

IMO, saying that any non-NFL QB is better right now than an average starter in the NFL is pretty asinine.
 
Emphasis that it is just your opinion - some people don't care if he's taken by the Steelers. Others who might not like Wilson would be happy if Pittsburgh blew a 1st on him.

Regardless, I think we can all agree that there is a high level of ambiguity with players in any NFL draft. Almost everyone is overhyped or underhyped and we don't know how their careers will turn out. 2018 is a perfect example itself.

IMO, saying that any non-NFL QB is better right now than an average starter in the NFL is pretty asinine.

Throwing around the word asinine after soapboxing about opinions, in a post where someone asked to support a post, is quite ridiculous.

Zach Wilson is more mobile, and has better arm talent than Baker Mayfield does on day one. Baker Mayfield being “average” isnt a good thing. This team wants to win play off games- Baker is 5-12, with 25TD/24 interceptions against 500 and above teams. That’s not average, that’s bad. He’s a bad quarterback against good teams, and an average quarterback against bad teams, and the sample size after three years is large enough to support that.
 
Throwing around the word asinine after soapboxing about opinions, in a post where someone asked to support a post, is quite ridiculous.

I think my point whiffed on you. Trying to drive home a point based solely on an opinion when you are conversing with people who have the opposite opinion doesn't get anywhere.

Zach Wilson is more mobile, and has better arm talent than Baker Mayfield does on day one. Baker Mayfield being “average” isnt a good thing. This team wants to win play off games- Baker is 5-12, with 25TD/24 interceptions against 500 and above teams. That’s not average, that’s bad. He’s a bad quarterback against good teams, and an average quarterback against bad teams, and the sample size after three years is large enough to support that.

If being more mobile and having better arm talent was all that went into being a quarterback then yes, Zach Wilson might be better.

Also, I wasn't saying Baker being average is a good thing for us nor was that my point. Also, he's not 'average' against bad teams - the stats show otherwise. You're kind of all over the place here lol.
 
Let's please stop talking about replacing Baker.

It's just not valid enough. We need to build around him and try to coach him into improving but you simply cannot give up on him now.

Serious enough question here is, can Baker Mayfield become what Eli Manning was at his peak OR surpass that? Right now he's much better than Eli was in his first 3 seasons. However, I can see sort of a similar trajectory there. Manning threw a lot of INT's, yet he won 2 super bowls. Also Favre is another similar comp numbers wise, right now Baker is about on pace to match Favre's 3rd season as a starter.

It's too early in his career to give up on him. I'm sure there are a ton of teams that would come running to have Baker their starting QB.



The people calling to replace Baker now are completely delusional when it comes to how professional football works.
 
That settles it, we need to get DeShone Kizer back.

Purely for the sake of perspective on how to properly handle a quarterback room... DeShone Kizer was an Ohio kid born just a few hours drive away from where Ohio kid Joe Burrow was born. Both of their high schools, Toledo Central Catholic and Athens, competed in Division III and both quarterbacks were among the best Ohio QBs of their generation.

One guy left college as soon as he could. The other stayed in college as long as he could. They are only separated by 11 months, a few hundred miles... and the Hue Jackson experience.
 
Let's please stop talking about replacing Baker.

It's just not valid enough. We need to build around him and try to coach him into improving but you simply cannot give up on him now.

Just because you think it's a dumb idea doesn't mean other posters shouldn't at least be able to talk about it if they want.
 
Just because you think it's a dumb idea doesn't mean other posters shouldn't at least be able to talk about it if they want.

It's just so much invalid noise. If you look back at history you can see the perfectly painted picture that you don't give up on a QB in year 3. Especially in a season when they're performing admirably.

All you need to do is peek back at HOF and Super Bowl Champion QB's to show you that.
 
It's just so much invalid noise. If you look back at history you can see the perfectly painted picture that you don't give up on a QB in year 3. Especially in a season when they're performing admirably.

All you need to do is peek back at HOF and Super Bowl Champion QB's to show you that.

Just because you disagree with the opinions of others doesn't mean they should stop giving them. It's a discussion forum, not a "shut up unless you agree with me" forum. And FWIW, I agree with you about Baker. I just don't like trying to shut people up for having a contrary opinion.
 
. Also Favre is another similar comp numbers wise, right now Baker is about on pace to match Favre's 3rd season as a starter.

Interesting that you mention Favre. Serious question... in today's game, would a high 50's %/low 60% completion rate with a 2/1 TD/Int rate be acceptable for a QB? I'm not so sure. And that was Brett Favre for many years.
Yes, of course there is more into it than that, but just at face value.... 3000+ yards, 59% completion rate, say 28tds and 14 ints.... is that good enough TODAY? If that is Baker, is that good enough? Maybe, maybe it is good enough in this offense with a heavy running game.

Sure seems the way today's pass free game is going, 65% is the bottom acceptable rate, high 60's is better, and you better be better than a 2/1 TD/int ratio too.
 

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