2021 Draft Prospects Thread

[DJTJ]

Tutu Atwell? Rondale Moore?

I think Darden is electric. His change of direction is the best I've seen of any WR in this draft. Playing against lesser competition shouldn't deter anyone from him. A lot of people here said similar things about Cooper Kupp coming out of college as well.

I also think Marquez Stevenson is a good fit here

Sorry, meant Moore not Toney. Toney I actually think is going to be a huge weapon, rather than a situational gadget guy.

Atwell, personally, is someone I think is more than situational, so I don’t put him in the same camp.

Id agree though- Moore, Atwell, all guys who fit a similar size/speed mold, above Felton/Darden. Personally, though, think Atwell can carve a bigger spot than the rest, and I’m not the largest Rondale Moore fan.

Cooper Kupp still isn’t the fast guy- the board was very right about that. He’s a tremendous route runner, which IIRC, was the consensus here at a time where we needed more than that.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

If I’m being honest, Darden has a glaring miss that he can’t go to the combine. When I see his tape, I see a lot of moves against low end talent, and I question the tape when you put him up to Felton.

There’s sort of three shifty weapon options, and they space out well.

Toney in the first. Felton in 3/4. Darden late. Not a knock on Darden, he just really suffers not being able to go apples/apples when his tape isn’t showing anything besides gadget.

I'm also just not sure his abilities play at the next level.

Speed and acceleration plays. Shiftiness? This sort of juking? I think NFL defenders are too good. If it didn't play for Reggie Bush, I don't think it plays for anyone outside of special teams.

 

[AZ_]

Genuinely don't know why Cornell Powell doesn't get much run. He's just a consistent player who does everything reasonably well, shouldn't have much trouble finding a role.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Toney in the first round is, to me, fucking insane. Late breakout age, didn't dominate in college, primarily drafted high due to his speed. No thanks. You draft one dimensional speed guys on day three.

And that's not to say he can't or won't be good. I'm just not taking him in the first round when there will be guys with much better and more complete prospect profiles available.

Do you think the Raiders regret chasing forty time and drafting Ruggs over Lamb, Jeudy, and Jefferson? Of fucking course they do, and some dipshit team is going to do the same thing this year with Toney over a guy like Moore.

Eat That Ass: Want to clarify that I mean Rondale Moore. Forgot there was Elijah Moore too in this class. He's good but not a first round pick.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

I am not sure if anyone else is feeling this. But it is still weird getting used to the draft being so late in the spring. While it does make FA more of the spot light and keeps the NFL in the media, I have found it hard to really get into the pre draft stuff. With us picking in the 20s and no Combine it just feels weird. I am hoping as we get closer my excitement grows.

 

[DJTJ]

I am not sure if anyone else is feeling this. But it is still weird getting used to the draft being so late in the spring. While it does make FA more of the spot light and keeps the NFL in the media, I have found it hard to really get into the pre draft stuff. With us picking in the 20s and no Combine it just feels weird. I am hoping as we get closer my excitement grows.

Tbh, this is the year I think I might be most excited, cause with the lack of combine and our late pick, it becomes a real game to fawn over players.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Tbh, this is the year I think I might be most excited, cause with the lack of combine and our late pick, it becomes a real game to fawn over players.

I'm literally just starting my personal scouting process, although I only focus on offensive players since it's for fantasy/dynasty purposes.

Hence why I haven't contributed much to this thread prior to today.

 

[AZ_]

Toney in the first round is, to me, fucking insane. Late breakout age, didn't dominate in college, primarily drafted high due to his speed. No thanks. You draft one dimensional speed guys on day three.

And that's not to say he can't or won't be good. I'm just not taking him in the first round when there will be guys with much better and more complete prospect profiles available.

Do you think the Raiders regret chasing forty time and drafting Ruggs over Lamb, Jeudy, and Jefferson? Of fucking course they do, and some dipshit team is going to do the same thing this year with Toney over a guy like Moore.

Eat That Ass: Want to clarify that I mean Rondale Moore. Forgot there was Elijah Moore too in this class. He's good but not a first round pick.

In an incredibly crowded field of "designated weapon" type Wide Receivers who bring a level of package flexibility to an offense, he's older and in a crowded field.

I just don't get the need vs. value side of what puts Toney so much higher above a guy like Waddle, Felton, Dazz Newsome, Tutu Atwell, the two Moore's, etc.

Its a popular role type that teams definitely value, but how much?


For me, that value isn't in the first round.

Terrence Marshall seems like quite a bit better of a fit for this team, who already has Jarvis Landry in the slot.

 

[Jack Brickman]

In an incredibly crowded field of "designated weapon" type Wide Receivers who bring a level of package flexibility to an offense, he's older and in a crowded field.

I just don't get the need vs. value side of what puts Toney so much higher above a guy like Waddle, Felton, Dazz Newsome, Tutu Atwell, the two Moore's, etc.

Its a popular role type that teams definitely value, but how much?


For me, that value isn't in the first round.

Terrence Marshall seems like quite a bit better of a fit for this team, who already has Jarvis Landry in the slot.

Love Marshall. Not sure where he's being mocked but would love him here.

I look at the Toney situation as identical to Ruggs last year. But would you prefer using a first round pick on Ruggs or grabbing Darnell Mooney in round five? Basically the same guy, only Mooney was more impressive in college.

If you want a speed guy, throw a dart on day three. Grab guys with alpha profiles on day one and two.

 

[AZ_]

Love Marshall. Not sure where he's being mocked but would love him here.

I look at the Toney situation as identical to Ruggs last year. But would you prefer using a first round pick on Ruggs or grabbing Darnell Mooney in round five? Basically the same guy, only Mooney was more impressive in college.

If you want a speed guy, throw a dart on day three. Grab guys with alpha profiles on day one and two.

I only mention Marshall because I've seen him mentioned in the same draft region as Toney.

The player type Toney represents is valuable, but I'd value Marshall's ability as a guy who can rotate between X and Z outside while getting run in the slot is WAY more valuable to me. Especially with the way this team is constructed.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I only mention Marshall because I've seen him mentioned in the same draft region as Toney.

The player type Toney represents is valuable, but I'd value Marshall's ability as a guy who can rotate between X and Z outside while getting run in the slot is WAY more valuable to me. Especially with the way this team is constructed.

Speed guys are definitely valuable. But using a first of them is foolish unless they tick a bunch of other boxes too (like OBJ did).

If I'm taking a receiver in round one it needs to be someone who could conceivably demand over 100 targets per season. An alpha guy. I don't see that with Toney. At least with Ruggs you could argue that his lack of production was because he played with a bunch of other first round picks, one of whom became the first WR to win the Heisman in thirty years.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Also, competition is another reason I love Terrace Marshall. The kid played with Justin Jefferson, who was great in college and we now know for a fact is an elite NFL receiver. He also played with Ja'Marr Chase, a guy widely regarded as the best WR prospect in several years.

Despite that, he still put up around 700 yards and double digit touchdowns each of the last two years. He did it last year in only seven games!

 

[DJTJ]

Speed guys are definitely valuable. But using a first of them is foolish unless they tick a bunch of other boxes too (like OBJ did).

If I'm taking a receiver in round one it needs to be someone who could conceivably demand over 100 targets per season. An alpha guy. I don't see that with Toney. At least with Ruggs you could argue that his lack of production was because he played with a bunch of other first round picks, one of whom became the first WR to win the Heisman in thirty years.

Im a very big Toney guy, but legit, all these concerns are concerns I equally have. I just think, in a modern NFL, he’s a guy who’s lateral speed gives me more than Ruggs, and his game tape shows really great routes for a late bloomer. At the same time? I get virtually a similar player in Felton later. And I... I love Demetrius Felton... because exactly what you’ve indicated- the profile exists at a lower capital cost.

Toney only exists for me as AB if I plug CB, S, and DE, and Collins and JOK are off board or unattainable. Aka, he shouldt be considered.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Im a very big Toney guy, but legit, all these concerns are concerns I equally have. I just think, in a modern NFL, he’s a guy who’s lateral speed gives me more than Ruggs, and his game tape shows really great routes for a late bloomer. At the same time? I get virtually a similar player in Felton later. And I... I love Demetrius Felton... because exactly what you’ve indicated- the profile exists at a lower capital cost.

Toney only exists for me as AB if I plug CB, S, and DE, and Collins and JOK are off board or unattainable. Aka, he shouldt be considered.

I doubt Toney is the type of guy this front office would draft highly. He doesn't really tick any of the analytics boxes. Not an early declare, late breakout age, low college dominator, and undersized. There's just so much going against him from a historical standpoint.

You're basically hoping this guy is Terry McLaurin (another speedy senior declare who didn't do much in college), but he was twenty pounds heavier and a couple inches taller, and that matters a lot historically.

Size, by the way, is why I'm not a big fan of Devonta Smith. He was amazing in college, but there's just not much evidence that a guy who weighs less than 180 pounds can have a successful NFL career at the WR position, at least as an alpha. And where he's being drafted he needs to be your alpha. He may have won the Heisman, but Jeudy to me was the much better NFL prospect.

 

[Triplethreat]

I doubt Toney is the type of guy this front office would draft highly. He doesn't really tick any of the analytics boxes. Not an early declare, late breakout age, low college dominator, and undersized. There's just so much going against him from a historical standpoint.

You're basically hoping this guy is Terry McLaurin (another speedy senior declare who didn't do much in college), but he was twenty pounds heavier and a couple inches taller, and that matters a lot historically.

Size, by the way, is why I'm not a big fan of Devonta Smith. He was amazing in college, but there's just not much evidence that a guy who weighs less than 180 pounds can have a successful NFL career at the WR position, at least as an alpha. And where he's being drafted he needs to be your alpha. He may have won the Heisman, but Jeudy to me was the much better NFL prospect.

Marvin Harrison was 6’0 and 179 lbs and is the best comp you can have for Smith.

Also, why would he not be adding weight at the next level?