2021 Minor League Thread

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sportscoach

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Does anyone know who OF Jorge Burgos is?

@MadThinker88 @petes999 @Tondo
@BimboColesHair aka I am trying to see if he is just having a good minor league career but isn't supposed to be anything special or if he is someone who is flying under the radar but we should keep an eye on as Indians fans? I just cannot find anything on him and his numbers have been saying he shouldn't be ignored...
 

CATS44

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I have nothing against Arias, but there are other MIF prospects that I like better. I think that Rocchio has both the highest ceiling and highest floor...the most likely to be a productive every day player.

Arias is surely very young, but I'd argue that he has been far from well above average this season.

And as I mentioned, the org is not doing anything that indicates that it views Arias as part of the competition for significant playing time in Cleveland next year....which leads to the obvious question about what happens when Rocchio and Freeman get to Columbus.

There are several questions about some of the kids in Columbus that in some way effect Arias.

Arias has played SS, 3B, and 2B. Jones has played mostly 3B, but has played RF, too. Neither seems to be in next years plans for the beginning of the season. When Rocchio and Freeman move to Columbus, it seems that Arias would move to third and Jones to right.

But we have the best 3B on the planet.

Valera will also be in Columbus at some point next year...and Straw is our CF.

Things can always change, but the FO does have some type of 3 year plan. And judging by its actions so far, the plan doesn't include both Jones and Arias, and maybe neither.

If I was to pick two position prospects most likely to be traded for a significant MLB bat, they would be Arias and Jones.

And even more likely if the org protects Gonzalez and/or Kwan.
 

CDAV45

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Trying to compare Arias to Rocchio at SS is splitting hairs IMO, but I'd give the edge to Arias due to his arm strength. Arias' versatility is a plus as well and I think he is JRam's replacement should he not be extended. Should JRam sign an extension then it's hard to say. I think teams would want Arias before Rocchio. Pure speculation on my part though.

All of Rocchio, Valera, Lavistida, and Freeman's performances warrant their promotions to Columbus to start the 22 season IMO. Imagine if Jones, Arias, Kwan, and Gonzalez remain as well. What a lineup that could be! The only thing they would be missing is a legitimate 1B prospect unless they put Jones there. Then all they would need is a LF or DH, depending on how they use Gonzalez. That's a potentially more potent lineup than the one in Cleveland now FFS.

I don't think either Kwan or Gonzalez will be going anywhere. In fact, I'd ditch HRam and put Kwan's ass in a corner OF right now. Neither Columbus nor Cleveland are making the playoffs so let's get the ball rolling with some of these kids and get a glance at what we got.
 

petes999

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Does anyone know who OF Jorge Burgos is?

@MadThinker88 @petes999 @Tondo
@BimboColesHair aka I am trying to see if he is just having a good minor league career but isn't supposed to be anything special or if he is someone who is flying under the radar but we should keep an eye on as Indians fans? I just cannot find anything on him and his numbers have been saying he shouldn't be ignored...
Just something to note. He signed in Jan 2019 at age of 18. Thus, in DSL, he was a year older than new signees (as he jumped in that season vs others waiting a year after signing at 16 in July). His .276 average would have stood out if age 17. However, what part was being older? So, in ACL, now at age 20 and year covid delay, he was more like college age kid so his .350 average got him pushed up to see him versus same age takent. He is hitting .296 in low A but just 18 games so far and 1 HR. So, nice, could be late bloomer but not quite on high profile list yet.
 

sportscoach

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Just something to note. He signed in Jan 2019 at age of 18. Thus, in DSL, he was a year older than new signees (as he jumped in that season vs others waiting a year after signing at 16 in July). His .276 average would have stood out if age 17. However, what part was being older? So, in ACL, now at age 20 and year covid delay, he was more like college age kid so his .350 average got him pushed up to see him versus same age takent. He is hitting .296 in low A but just 18 games so far and 1 HR. So, nice, could be late bloomer but not quite on high profile list yet.

Remember Jose Ramirez kid was a substitute for the player in a game the team was scouting...
Burgos turns 20 in December by the way, so he's still 19. I am curious on his scouting report, since his numbers state a plus contact kid with lower power (hence the one HR). I am trying to see all the kids flying under the radar down there.
 

CATS44

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Rocchio is a switch hitter that hits well from both sides. Defensively, he has range and a quick release that offsets an average arm for a MIF. (Think Omar, who only had an average arm.) He has been an above average to well above average hitter at every level and age.

He is a concensus top 100 prospect.
 

Derek

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I have nothing against Arias, but there are other MIF prospects that I like better. I think that Rocchio has both the highest ceiling and highest floor...the most likely to be a productive every day player.

Arias is surely very young, but I'd argue that he has been far from well above average this season.

And as I mentioned, the org is not doing anything that indicates that it views Arias as part of the competition for significant playing time in Cleveland next year....which leads to the obvious question about what happens when Rocchio and Freeman get to Columbus.

There are several questions about some of the kids in Columbus that in some way effect Arias.

Arias has played SS, 3B, and 2B. Jones has played mostly 3B, but has played RF, too. Neither seems to be in next years plans for the beginning of the season. When Rocchio and Freeman move to Columbus, it seems that Arias would move to third and Jones to right.

But we have the best 3B on the planet.

Valera will also be in Columbus at some point next year...and Straw is our CF.

Things can always change, but the FO does have some type of 3 year plan. And judging by its actions so far, the plan doesn't include both Jones and Arias, and maybe neither.

If I was to pick two position prospects most likely to be traded for a significant MLB bat, they would be Arias and Jones.

And even more likely if the org protects Gonzalez and/or Kwan.
I think you’re grossly off base regarding your assumptions about how the organization views Arias and Jones.
 

Wham with the Right Hand

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Zack Meisel has a column in The Athletic on Nolan Jones' "humbling" season.

“This year, I was humbled more than I have been in my career,” Jones said. “And I think it was huge for me. I struggled a lot this year. I had a really tough time with these failures, and I learned what I need to do to get out of these thoughts and feelings that I’m having when things aren’t going right.”

In addition to the hitting gurus, Jones worked with mental skills coaches. He had never struggled to this degree so he knew he needed to take advantage of the resources at his disposal. He watched teammates venture north on I-71 to Cleveland to join the big-league roster, but he knew he wasn’t contributing enough to warrant a promotion.

“It was a long time for me when confidence was down,” Jones said. “I didn’t believe in myself for a little bit, and then I had some really good conversations with a lot of people and I was really able to turn that around.”.....

Jones insisted that, defensively at third base, he’s ready for the majors — he has worked extensively with former Indians infielder John McDonald — and said he’s comfortable enough in right field to make that an option if there’s an opening.

As for hitting, Jones performed his best this season in the two weeks before he injured his left ankle. He hopes to carry that stretch over to spring training as he eyes an eventual spot on Cleveland’s roster. He knows he must demonstrate he can be a reliable cog in the lineup.

“The higher you go, the more difficult it is to make changes and the more difficult it is (when you) fail,” Jones said. “If I was doing what I did at Triple A at the big leagues this year, it would have been harder for me.

“I can’t get to the big leagues before I really excel and prove that I’m one of the top players in Triple A.”
 

CATS44

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I think you’re grossly off base regarding your assumptions about how the organization views Arias and Jones.

You may be right, but consider these moves the FO made in the last eight months.

It traded for not one, but two, young shortstops. It has called up two MIFs from Columbus. It is still looking at Chang. Both the FO and Hale have said that the last few months of the season are being used to give everybody an opportunity to show what they can do at the MLB level...both at 2B and in the corner outfield spots.

Although we have Jose, Jones has still played the majority of games at third, and Arias has played his second most games at third.

Although we have a big question mark at first, Jones has only played one game there.

If you look at 2022, it is obvious that we need to find answers at second and in the outfield. Miller, Clement, Gimenez, Chang, Zimmer, Harold, and Mercado are all having tryouts. Which two names are missing?

Both Jones and Arias have spent the entire year at one level, while nearly every other prospect we have has moved up at least one level.

Both Antonetti and Tito have remarked upon the increasingly wide gap for hitters between AAA and MLB...and yet neither Arias nor Jones has been brought up to get thru their first growing pains, and its too late to do it now.

Palacios is now in Columbus and tearing it up. (128 wRC+) Rocchio is in Akron and tearing it up. (136 wRC+) Freeman is in Akron, and was tearing it up. (129 wRC+)

Maybe all these performances by the other MIF prospects and the corresponding decisions by the FO mean nothing.

Maybe...
 

sportscoach

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You may be right, but consider these moves the FO made in the last eight months.

It traded for not one, but two, young shortstops. It has called up two MIFs from Columbus. It is still looking at Chang. Both the FO and Hale have said that the last few months of the season are being used to give everybody an opportunity to show what they can do at the MLB level...both at 2B and in the corner outfield spots.

Although we have Jose, Jones has still played the majority of games at third, and Arias has played his second most games at third.

Although we have a big question mark at first, Jones has only played one game there.

If you look at 2022, it is obvious that we need to find answers at second and in the outfield. Miller, Clement, Gimenez, Chang, Zimmer, Harold, and Mercado are all having tryouts. Which two names are missing?

Both Jones and Arias have spent the entire year at one level, while nearly every other prospect we have has moved up at least one level.

Both Antonetti and Tito have remarked upon the increasingly wide gap for hitters between AAA and MLB...and yet neither Arias nor Jones has been brought up to get thru their first growing pains, and its too late to do it now.

Palacios is now in Columbus and tearing it up. (128 wRC+) Rocchio is in Akron and tearing it up. (136 wRC+) Freeman is in Akron, and was tearing it up. (129 wRC+)

Maybe all these performances by the other MIF prospects and the corresponding decisions by the FO mean nothing.

Maybe...

Part of running an organization is knowing when to call up someone and when to not call up someone as well...

Also I am under the notion of you can never have too much talent and your best talents normally come up as SS that get a position change later (ex: Lavastida was a middle INF in college) Amed was brought in to help the team now and Gimenez was brought in to add to the talent pool for the future hoping one pans out as a major league guy.

We have the youngest team in baseball and baring the Injuries, would have been at least in the wild card race. We are going to be a strong team in 22 going forward because we kept acquiring the best talent over position they play
 

Kevalier

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I asked Kyle Glaser of Baseball America about Brayan Rocchio during a chat yesterday and here was his response:

Kevin (Cleveland): Thoughts on Brayan Rocchio? He made quite the leap in BA's updated Top 100 rankings and is now listed as the second-highest prospect on the list for the Indians/Guardians.

Kyle Glaser: Rocchio an elite defender at shortstop. As in elite elite, potential 80-grade defender. He's a smaller guy who swings big, but he's got some natural hitting instincts and makes good swing decisions. He might be a guy who plays such ridiculous defense early in his career that he'll be an everyday player, and over time he'll add strength and eventually start hitting as he gets further into his career, as we've seen many other smaller, elite defensive shortstops do.
 

CATS44

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I asked Kyle Glaser of Baseball America about Brayan Rocchio during a chat yesterday and here was his response:

Kevin (Cleveland): Thoughts on Brayan Rocchio? He made quite the leap in BA's updated Top 100 rankings and is now listed as the second-highest prospect on the list for the Indians/Guardians.

Kyle Glaser: Rocchio an elite defender at shortstop. As in elite elite, potential 80-grade defender. He's a smaller guy who swings big, but he's got some natural hitting instincts and makes good swing decisions. He might be a guy who plays such ridiculous defense early in his career that he'll be an everyday player, and over time he'll add strength and eventually start hitting as he gets further into his career, as we've seen many other smaller, elite defensive shortstops do.

Glaser isn't the only one.

Eric Longenhagen, when asked by one our very own board members about how he felt about our plethora of MIFs, said this about Rocchio...

You would have to pry him from my cold, dead hands.
 
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