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Adam

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Given the way lonzo has performed in the NBA I can see giddey rising up boards. Does anyone know how their Australian seasons compare?
 

Nathan S

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Given the way lonzo has performed in the NBA I can see giddey rising up boards. Does anyone know how their Australian seasons compare?

Mm, funny you should ask :chuckle:

Josh Giddey's numbers are beginning to improve. He's 10/24 from deep in his last 6 games after starting the season 2/20, his steals are up, and he's continuing to pack the box score with rebounds and assists. Here's how his profile compares to Ball's profile last year (per-40 pace adjusted):

Giddey: 13.4 points (.38/.27/.65 shooting), 8.8 rebounds, 7.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.8 blocks, 2.6 fouls, 3.7 turnovers
Ball: 21.6 points (.39/.28/.70 shooting), 9.4 boards, 8.6 assists, 2.1 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.3 fouls, 3.2 turnovers

What stands out is the big gap in scoring output. Elsewhere, though, Giddey is well within the same ballpark. I'd probably have him in the teens on my board at the moment.

Giddey put up another huge statline earlier today with 14 points, 11 boards, and 8 assists. He's also 21/49 from 3 in his last 12 games after going 2/20 in his first 7 games, pushing his season percentage up to a respectable 33%. The gap between his profile this year and Ball's profile last year continues to shrink.

EDIT:


Here's the updated comparison (per-40 pace adjusted):

Giddey: 14.1 points (.41/.32/.67 shooting), 8.9 boards, 8.3 assists, 1.6 steals, 0.8 blocks, 2.4 fouls, 3.6 turnovers
Ball: 21.6 points (.39/.28/.70 shooting), 9.4 boards, 8.6 assists, 2.1 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.3 fouls, 3.2 turnovers

Giddey still lags as a scorer, but he's improving his efficiency there, and he's almost completely closed the gap on Ball in other areas.

The kicker is his age...he doesn't turn 19 until October, meaning he's younger than virtually every other prospect in this draft, and even younger than Ball was going into his rookie season. As it stands, he's a definite top-10, probable top-5 pick on my board.
 

Muffinalt

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Mm, funny you should ask :chuckle:





Here's the updated comparison (per-40 pace adjusted):

Giddey: 14.1 points (.41/.32/.67 shooting), 8.9 boards, 8.3 assists, 1.6 steals, 0.8 blocks, 2.4 fouls, 3.6 turnovers
Ball: 21.6 points (.39/.28/.70 shooting), 9.4 boards, 8.6 assists, 2.1 steals, 0.2 blocks, 3.3 fouls, 3.2 turnovers

Giddey still lags as a scorer, but he's improving his efficiency there, and he's almost completely closed the gap on Ball in other areas.

The kicker is his age...he doesn't turn 19 until October, meaning he's younger than virtually every other prospect in this draft, and even younger than Ball was going into his rookie season. As it stands, he's a definite top-10, probable top-5 pick on my board.

Pretty impressive stuff. How does his defense project? Quick enough for guards or limited more to wings?
 

Nathan S

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Pretty impressive stuff. How does his defense project? Quick enough for guards or limited more to wings?

Probably more limited to wings? Quantitatively his defensive numbers are extremely similar to Cades, but with slightly more rebounds, and qualitatively I think they're very similar defensively as well. Both good team defenders with good length, good understanding of positioning, and good anticipation. But you'd definitely feel nervous if they're on an island against a dangerous offensive player. Both adequate rebounders, though I think Cade's particular lack of quick-twitch vertical athleticism holds him back there. You'd typically want them guarding SFs, but they have some versatility to guard less-physical PFs and less-quick SGs.
 

Nathan S

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Oh boy...speaking of international prospects, Roko Prkacin dropped a monster line of 29 points, 15 rebounds, 9 assists, and 3 steals yesterday. What carnage. Granted, the level of competition was not high...this was a 111-76 blowout akin to a warmup non-conference game against a low-major opponent. But that's an impressive game in any context.


Saric is a natural comparison point, as he played for the same team in the same league and has a similar kind of game. Here's how their age-18 seasons compare (per-40 pace adjusted):

Prkacin: 21.0 points (.51/.33/.63 shooting), 11.4 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.9 blocks, 4.4 fouls, 3.5 turnovers
Saric: 17.4 points (.49/.30/.66 shooting), 11.0 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 2.1 steals, 1.3 blocks, 4.6 fouls, 4.3 turnovers

Again, very comparable, with Prkacin just a smidge ahead on offense and Saric slightly better on defense.
 

kriegs

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Totally a hypothetical but thought I'd share for shits and giggles.

Just did my 2k21 offseason with the Cavs. Finished with 6th worst record and the Pelicans leaped into the top 3 in the lottery so we got stuck at 7.

1) Pistons - Evan Mobley
2) Pelicans - Jalen Green
3) Timberwolves - Cade Cunningham
4) Rockets - Jalen Suggs
5) Thunder - Jonathan Kuminga
6) Magic - Sharife Cooper (?)
7) Cavs - Moses Moody
8) Kings - Keon Johnson
9) Wizards - Josh Giddey
10) Pacers - Scottie Barnes

It was a close choice for me between Moody and Barnes, but we just had more options under contract at SF/PF and I like Moody's 2-way potential. Playing with dudes who don't shoot great is no fun.

Also, I traded Cedi to the Pelicans for 2 of their mid-late 2nd rounders and drafted Jaden Springer (not sure why he was slipping) and Jared Butler. At least I will have some fun guards off the bench.

The AI drafted pretty well and found some intriguing fits for teams besides Cooper. I think the game was overrating their weakness at the position since Fultz is still hurt, but whatever. It's a game.
 
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Nathan S

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Post-MM big board. While some NCAA prospects helped their stocks, all of the top international guys have helped their stock a lot in the last month or so.

#1. Sengun. Same reasoning as before...probable MVP in an elite pro league at age 18. And contrary to popular belief, he's doing his damage in a fast-paced modern offense, not in a throwback post-centric offense.

#2/3. Barnes and Mobley, neck and neck. Both elite defensive prospects with great physical tools, though their offensive games have some moderately concerning weaknesses.

#4-10. Suggs, Kuminga, Green, Wagner, Moody, Giddey, Springer

#11-20. Garuba, Prkacin, Boston, McBride, Cunningham, Johnson, Cooper, Robinson-Earl, Butler, Jackson
 

Ozone

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I cannot stand Moses Moody as lottery option maybe 12 or later on potential but he is too raw to be a top 10 pick in this draft. In last years a year earlier in the rebuild having not drafted Okoro maybe. Too many better options imo
 

Ozone

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Totally a hypothetical but thought I'd share for shits and giggles.

Just did my 2k21 offseason with the Cavs. Finished with 6th worst record and the Pelicans leaped into the top 3 in the lottery so we got stuck at 7.

1) Pistons - Evan Mobley
2) Pelicans - Jalen Green
3) Timberwolves - Cade Cunningham
4) Rockets - Jalen Suggs
5) Thunder - Jonathan Kuminga
6) Magic - Sharife Cooper (?)
7) Cavs - Moses Moody
8) Kings - Keon Johnson
9) Wizards - Josh Giddey
10) Pacers - Scottie Barnes

It was a close choice for me between Moody and Barnes, but we just had more options under contract at SF/PF and I like Moody's 2-way potential. Playing with dudes who don't shoot great is no fun.

Also, I traded Cedi to the Pelicans for 2 of their mid-late 2nd rounders and drafted Jaden Springer (not sure why he was slipping) and Jared Butler. At least I will have some fun guards off the bench.

The AI drafted pretty well and found some intriguing fits for teams besides Cooper. I think the game was overrating their weakness at the position since Fultz is still hurt, but whatever. It's a game.
FYI Cooper has like 10% chance of getting drafted in the first round, he is not a lottery level option despite the assist rate.
Moody is too raw to go before Barnes and several others. imo
 

MirORich

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Post-MM big board. While some NCAA prospects helped their stocks, all of the top international guys have helped their stock a lot in the last month or so.

#1. Sengun. Same reasoning as before...probable MVP in an elite pro league at age 18. And contrary to popular belief, he's doing his damage in a fast-paced modern offense, not in a throwback post-centric offense.

#2/3. Barnes and Mobley, neck and neck. Both elite defensive prospects with great physical tools, though their offensive games have some moderately concerning weaknesses.

#4-10. Suggs, Kuminga, Green, Wagner, Moody, Giddey, Springer

#11-20. Garuba, Prkacin, Boston, McBride, Cunningham, Johnson, Cooper, Robinson-Earl, Butler, Jackson
Probably three international players* in the past 25 years who’s play in the NBA justify being retroactively considered #1 pick worthy: Giannis, Luka, and Jokic.

I assume he’s at one in your meter because numbers say he should be, but I just have a hard time selling myself on him as on the level as those three and worthy of being drafted ahead of a few other players in this draft.

*not including guys like Embiid who came over here for HS/AAU/NCAA prior to draft.
 

kriegs

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Post-MM big board. While some NCAA prospects helped their stocks, all of the top international guys have helped their stock a lot in the last month or so.

#1. Sengun. Same reasoning as before...probable MVP in an elite pro league at age 18. And contrary to popular belief, he's doing his damage in a fast-paced modern offense, not in a throwback post-centric offense.

#2/3. Barnes and Mobley, neck and neck. Both elite defensive prospects with great physical tools, though their offensive games have some moderately concerning weaknesses.

#4-10. Suggs, Kuminga, Green, Wagner, Moody, Giddey, Springer

#11-20. Garuba, Prkacin, Boston, McBride, Cunningham, Johnson, Cooper, Robinson-Earl, Butler, Jackson

The late emergence of dudes like Sengun and Giddey really helps us in a scenario like mine where we end up 5-8
 

kriegs

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FYI Cooper has like 10% chance of getting drafted in the first round, he is not a lottery level option despite the assist rate.
Moody is too raw to go before Barnes and several others. imo
Agree, hence the question mark. It's a video game and Cooper was even rated like a 70 overall. Magic gonna Magic.
 

Nathan S

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I cannot stand Moses Moody as lottery option maybe 12 or later on potential but he is too raw to be a top 10 pick in this draft. In last years a year earlier in the rebuild having not drafted Okoro maybe. Too many better options imo

For him and Springer, I'm willing to look past their rough edges because of how young they are, even compared to other freshmen.

Probably three international players* in the past 25 years who’s play in the NBA justify being retroactively considered #1 pick worthy: Giannis, Luka, and Jokic.

I assume he’s at one in your meter because numbers say he should be, but I just have a hard time selling myself on him as on the level as those three and worthy of being drafted ahead of a few other players in this draft.

*not including guys like Embiid who came over here for HS/AAU/NCAA prior to draft.

What if you dig a little more into international bigs, though? Jokic, Gobert, both Gasols, Dirk, Porzingis, Vucevic, Capela, Sabonis, and then a slew of other solid-starter types. Sengun's arguably better than any of them at the same age...in most cases by a wide margin.
 

pr26

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Totally a hypothetical but thought I'd share for shits and giggles.

Just did my 2k21 offseason with the Cavs. Finished with 6th worst record and the Pelicans leaped into the top 3 in the lottery so we got stuck at 7.

1) Pistons - Evan Mobley
2) Pelicans - Jalen Green
3) Timberwolves - Cade Cunningham
4) Rockets - Jalen Suggs
5) Thunder - Jonathan Kuminga
6) Magic - Sharife Cooper (?)
7) Cavs - Moses Moody
8) Kings - Keon Johnson
9) Wizards - Josh Giddey
10) Pacers - Scottie Barnes

It was a close choice for me between Moody and Barnes, but we just had more options under contract at SF/PF and I like Moody's 2-way potential. Playing with dudes who don't shoot great is no fun.

Also, I traded Cedi to the Pelicans for 2 of their mid-late 2nd rounders and drafted Jaden Springer (not sure why he was slipping) and Jared Butler. At least I will have some fun guards off the bench.

The AI drafted pretty well and found some intriguing fits for teams besides Cooper. I think the game was overrating their weakness at the position since Fultz is still hurt, but whatever. It's a game.

Funny, I got nba2k21 for PS5 over the weekend and simmed 2020 so I could do the same thing.

Cavs finished with the 8th worst record and won the lottery (lulz). With the first pick, I chose Mobley. Jalen Green was on the board at 4, and OKC accepted a package of Sexton and Love for pick 4 (Green) and Horford....who I flipped to the Bulls for a future first rounder.

Running a starting lineup of :
Pg - DG
Sg- Green
SF - Okoro
PF - Mobley
C - Allen

Nance and Windler playing multiple positions off the bench for heavy minutes. Really fun versatile lineup! DG and Green can fill it up, Mobley/Allen locks down the paint and I keep one on the court at all times. Realistic? Nah. Fun? Very.
 

kriegs

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Funny, I got nba2k21 for PS5 over the weekend and simmed 2020 so I could do the same thing.

Cavs finished with the 8th worst record and won the lottery (lulz). With the first pick, I chose Mobley. Jalen Green was on the board at 4, and OKC accepted a package of Sexton and Love for pick 4 (Green) and Horford....who I flipped to the Bulls for a future first rounder.

Running a starting lineup of :
Pg - DG
Sg- Green
SF - Okoro
PF - Mobley
C - Allen

Nance and Windler playing multiple positions off the bench for heavy minutes. Really fun versatile lineup! DG and Green can fill it up, Mobley/Allen locks down the paint and I keep one on the court at all times. Realistic? Nah. Fun? Very.
Making me jelly I stuck with the realistic route. Sounds like a blast.
 

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