• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

2021 NBA Draft Safari

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
I respect your opinions Richfield but I don't see the Giannis comparison with Barnes (and I do like Barnes). Giannis was 18 at the start of his first season while Barnes will be 20. I just don't see the growth potential esp physically with Barnes either. I thought of Giddey as a big Rubio or maybe Lonzo type wing a few months ago before his ABL season but his shooting has improved drastically while playing in a professional league at the age of 18. His creativity with the ball is Lamelo-like.
 
I respect your opinions Richfield but I don't see the Giannis comparison with Barnes (and I do like Barnes). Giannis was 18 at the start of his first season while Barnes will be 20. I just don't see the growth potential esp physically with Barnes either. I thought of Giddey as a big Rubio or maybe Lonzo type wing a few months ago before his ABL season but his shooting has improved drastically while playing in a professional league at the age of 18. His creativity with the ball is Lamelo-like.
Since I brought up the comp, I'll defend it.

I wasn't saying Barnes will become what Giannis is now. Barnes isn't going to grow another 2-3 inches, and it would be outrageous to project him as a 30-15-5 DPOY guy :chuckle:

I'm saying that Barnes right now reminds me of Giannis as a rookie. It's purely speculative as to what Barnes will become from here, but that's what I saw from his this year at FSU.
 
Do we really want to even consider bringing in another lottery pick whose best attribute is defense and will have to develop (if ever) an offensive game? Barnes scares me.

If we believe in this guard tandem......and everything I have seen tells me we do, for better or worse, we need players like Barnes......who can significantly impact a game without needing to dominate possession. Barnes can kind of flow in and out of usage and still be an impactful player......and he has an offensive game, as a facilitator......which is completely fine with two scoring guards.

To me, Barnes can really play any position 1-4 and be good at it. I have concerns about his shooting.....but we should have plenty of it around him, especially if we involve him on the ball. Off the ball, he is both a good screener and cutter, so he could be used effectively as the screener in the P&R.

It is the same reason I like Moody as well, if we are trying to fit together pieces that make sense. One of the nice things about this draft, to me, is that guys like Barnes not only gel really well with our personnel but also have the type of wing upside that is harder to come by.

Barnes is the guy I would be most excited about, relative to our likely draft range (6-8).
 
I respect your opinions Richfield but I don't see the Giannis comparison with Barnes (and I do like Barnes). Giannis was 18 at the start of his first season while Barnes will be 20. I just don't see the growth potential esp physically with Barnes either. I thought of Giddey as a big Rubio or maybe Lonzo type wing a few months ago before his ABL season but his shooting has improved drastically while playing in a professional league at the age of 18. His creativity with the ball is Lamelo-like.

I respect yours as well.

I won't plant my flag in Barnes = Giannis. The @Derek post I quoted was the first comp I saw for them for their raw potential as initiators who can't shoot but could develop with the ball in their hands, and I agree with that.

I havent watched a single "complete" game for Giddey yet, I will just like I did with Melo before the draft, and then I'll revisit this with you. I can tell he's a "feel" guy and I usually get a better read on them by watching how they adjust to their games to what their teams need and what the defense is giving.

Definitely gave me bigger Rubio vibes though, so it seems we agree there. Rubio's handle and passing were far superior and Giddey is bigger and slower though.
 
I would be more than HAPPY with Barnes if the ping pong balls dont go in our favor. However, I'd be ecstatic, of course, if we end up top 3. This would make the 3rd year in a row that the #3 guy on my top 3 wishlist ends up on the shore of Lake Erie.

2019
1. Garland
2. Jaxson Hayes
3. KPJ

2020
1. Wiseman
2. Pat Will
3. Okoro

2021
1. Mobley
2. Kuminga
3. Green/Barnes
 
Hypothetical thought exercise, to mentally prepare us in the event we end up picking 6th - 9th

First go back to 2020 and pretend the first four picks are: Edwards Wiseman, Ball, and Halliburton

Now insert anybody from the 2021 draft pool not named: Cunningham, Mobley, Green, Suggs, and Kuminga

From the remaining pool of 2021 prospects(including Barnes, Sengun, Moody, Jalen Johnson, Giddey, Wagner, and others), which of those wouldn’t you immediately turn in as pick 5 in the 2020 draft over all the eligible 2020 picks not named Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, and Halliburton?

Man, I really should have been able to come up with a clearer way to present that

edit: let’s visualize it

1. Edwards
2. Wiseman
3. Ball
4. Haliburton
5. ???

Make the Cavs pick at five with a talent pool of every remaining 2020 prospect(including Okoro) and every 2021 prospect except Cunningham, Mobley, Suggs, Green, and Kuminga. Strictly talent and long term potential based, don't have to consider current roster fit.
 
Last edited:
The draft lottery is just 2 short months away...June 22nd.
I was on the Evan Mobley train before the season and have found no reason to jump off. At least this draft is deep enough the Cavs should definitely get a nice prospect this time even if they do get unlucky again.
 
What’s funny about this draft is that Cade was billed as a guy with rare passing ability for his size, and that’d probably be true in most drafts. But this year we have at least 5 prospects with legit playmaking skill who’re even bigger (Mobley, Barnes, Giddey, Sengun, Wagner) and maybe as many as 9 (adding Kuminga, Johnson, Prkacin, and Robinson-Earl). I don’t think there’s ever been so much passing talent in a draft among big wings and frontcourt players.
 
Hypothetical thought exercise, to mentally prepare us in the event we end up picking 6th - 9th

First go back to 2020 and pretend the first four picks are: Edwards Wiseman, Ball, and Halliburton

Now insert anybody from the 2021 draft pool not named: Cunningham, Mobley, Green, Suggs, and Kuminga

From the remaining pool of 2021 prospects(including Barnes, Sengun, Moody, Jalen Johnson, Giddey, Wagner, and others), which of those wouldn’t you immediately turn in as pick 5 in the 2020 draft over all the eligible 2020 picks not named Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, and Halliburton?

Man, I really should have been able to come up with a clearer way to present that

edit: let’s visualize it

1. Edwards
2. Wiseman
3. Ball
4. Haliburton
5. ???

Make the Cavs pick at five with a talent pool of every remaining 2020 prospect(including Okoro) and every 2021 prospect except Cunningham, Mobley, Suggs, Green, and Kuminga. Strictly talent and long term potential based, don't have to consider current roster fit.
Given those restrictions, I think I would still take Okoro.
 
If we believe in this guard tandem......and everything I have seen tells me we do, for better or worse, we need players like Barnes......who can significantly impact a game without needing to dominate possession. Barnes can kind of flow in and out of usage and still be an impactful player......and he has an offensive game, as a facilitator......which is completely fine with two scoring guards.

To me, Barnes can really play any position 1-4 and be good at it. I have concerns about his shooting.....but we should have plenty of it around him, especially if we involve him on the ball. Off the ball, he is both a good screener and cutter, so he could be used effectively as the screener in the P&R.

It is the same reason I like Moody as well, if we are trying to fit together pieces that make sense. One of the nice things about this draft, to me, is that guys like Barnes not only gel really well with our personnel but also have the type of wing upside that is harder to come by.

Barnes is the guy I would be most excited about, relative to our likely draft range (6-8).

I grant that Barnes would fit well with our backcourt, but as I see it we currently have exactly two players who can break down a defense and score at multiple levels - Sexton and Garland. When either one of them is on the bench or injured we're too easy to defend because all the other guys do is pass the ball around hoping someone else will shoot. If I had a dollar for every open 3-pointer we've passed up this year I'd be . . . really happy. IMO we desperately need another scorer on this team.
 
Hypothetical thought exercise, to mentally prepare us in the event we end up picking 6th - 9th

First go back to 2020 and pretend the first four picks are: Edwards Wiseman, Ball, and Halliburton

Now insert anybody from the 2021 draft pool not named: Cunningham, Mobley, Green, Suggs, and Kuminga

From the remaining pool of 2021 prospects(including Barnes, Sengun, Moody, Jalen Johnson, Giddey, Wagner, and others), which of those wouldn’t you immediately turn in as pick 5 in the 2020 draft over all the eligible 2020 picks not named Edwards, Wiseman, Ball, and Halliburton?

Man, I really should have been able to come up with a clearer way to present that

edit: let’s visualize it

1. Edwards
2. Wiseman
3. Ball
4. Haliburton
5. ???

Make the Cavs pick at five with a talent pool of every remaining 2020 prospect(including Okoro) and every 2021 prospect except Cunningham, Mobley, Suggs, Green, and Kuminga. Strictly talent and long term potential based, don't have to consider current roster fit.

Do I get the benefit of NBA tape? Or do I need to draft relative to college profiles?

I ask, as I think Patrick Williams is the hands down choice, if I get the benefit of NBA tape.
 
Do I get the benefit of NBA tape? Or do I need to draft relative to college profiles?

I ask, as I think Patrick Williams is the hands down choice, if I get the benefit of NBA tape.
No NBA hindsight in this scenario. Just their non NBA tape, measurables, and advanced stats crunched through your draft rather and your eye test, gut feel.

In that scenario, I would have Barnes, Johnson, Sengun, Okoro, Jalen Johnson, Giddey, and Demi all lumped together. Possibly Moody as well.

Would probably lean Barnes.

Its a weird exercise because it feels like youre eliminating a prospect on the Cabs by choosing a 2021 guy to replace Okoro, but in reality of course their would be whoever you chose in this 2020 reimagining plus someone taken in 2021.

Mainly, I just wanted to get a sense for how people think about the non consensus top5 in this draft compared to the 2020 draft.
 
No NBA hindsight in this scenario. Just their non NBA tape, measurables, and advanced stats crunched through your draft rather and your eye test, gut feel.

In that scenario, I would have Barnes, Johnson, Sengun, Okoro, Jalen Johnson, Giddey, and Demi all lumped together. Possibly Moody as well.

Would probably lean Barnes.

Its a weird exercise because it feels like youre eliminating a prospect on the Cabs by choosing a 2021 guy to replace Okoro, but in reality of course their would be whoever you chose in this 2020 reimagining plus someone taken in 2021.

Mainly, I just wanted to get a sense for how people think about the non consensus top5 in this draft compared to the 2020 draft.

Just relative to profiles, I would argue Okongwu or Barnes.

Okongwu is kind of forgotten, relative to his injury delaying his debut and the fact he is stuck in a crowded front court. He had a great profile and I think most would be surprised to hear that Okongwu actually leads the 2020 draft class in win shares per 48 minutes.

He has some defensive tape already where it just looks like he has the potential to be a modern defensive anchor. Unfortunate he is stuck in a situation where they aren't going to give him a ton of minutes to learn on the job. They have too much invested in other big men for him to realistically carve out a large portion of playing time, so it seems like a somewhat strange draft pick for them at the moment.

That would give me a roster of Sexton / Garland / Okongwu and I plug in whatever wing is left. Barnes would be 1B for me......and it would be easy, for myself, to just take him over Okongwu.
 
I was thinking about the type of prospect I'd most like to add to the team and Jaren Jackson came to mind.

That type of player would really fit in perfectly.

So, my question to the draft gurus..anyone close to that?
 
I was thinking about the type of prospect I'd most like to add to the team and Jaren Jackson came to mind.

That type of player would really fit in perfectly.

So, my question to the draft gurus..anyone close to that?

Greg Brown is kinda like a budget version of Jaren Jackson.
 

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-13: "Backup Bash Brothers"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:11: "Clipping Bucks."
Top