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2021 NBA Draft Safari

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I think Giddey is a very good prospect, but here's how his production compares to other players on his team, to put things in perspective:

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He's a quality player with interesting skills, but overall he's just an solid starter type at best in Australia (though trending up a bit lately). This is impressive for such a young player in a reasonably strong league, but not, like, totally crazy. He obviously has work to do before he'll be a positive-value player at the NBA level.


Compare that to Sengun's situation:


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His teammates are, at worst, comparable to Giddey's teammates. But unlike Giddey, he completely outclasses them. Overall, he has nearly as many win shares as all of his teammates combined.


If Giddey and Sengun were similarly dominant, then sure, I could get behind Giddey as a somewhat better fit on our current roster. But that's not the case...Sengun's on a completely different level in how well he's playing this season. So I don't understand having Giddey in the lottery if Sengun isn't *at least* a spot or two ahead of him.
 
Who is this Vrenz Bleijenbergh guy? Super impressive tape on him, any of you guys rate him highly? 6'10 but his passing and movement is really like that of a guard.

This really is the draft on the tall playmakers lol... Every two months another one pops up.
 
Giddey is super impressive and has been somewhat comparable to Lamelo last season. Not sure where he goes because of strength of this draft but he would surely go top 10 in last years draft. His downside is his wingspan is short for memory which limits his defensive upside
 
I think Kuminga is a better scorer, while Barnes is better at the rest. *I* think the Cavaliers need an alpha; a guy that you can roll the ball to and have him get a basket when the team is struggling, but I may be I'm the minority there. This team feels similar to the Miami team before Jimmy Butler went there.
I have been beating the drum about that exact fact.....That is the type of player this team needs to move to the next level. People believe Sexton is that guy but he’s not. Sexton is a scorer but he doesn’t make others around him better. That’s not a knock on him but those are the facts. We need a Butler/Westbrook type player on this team. Is there that type of player in this draft? People rag on him but the only “complete” wing player I see in this draft is Cade.
 
I watch them play and I think the Cavs have one and potentially two guys who can get buckets when the team is struggling.


Problem I see is the team is truggling literally all the time to score.


They need better spacing. Shooting is priority 1.
 
Who is this Vrenz Bleijenbergh guy? Super impressive tape on him, any of you guys rate him highly? 6'10 but his passing and movement is really like that of a guard.

This really is the draft on the tall playmakers lol... Every two months another one pops up.

I added him to my draft rater a little while back. Unlike the top international guys, he turns 21 this fall, so slightly on the older side. My international player rankings look something like:

1. Sengun (high lottery)
2. Giddey (mid lottery)
3. Garuba (late lottery)
4. Prkacin (early teens)
5-6. Bleijenbergh, Diop (early second)
7-10. Procida, Jokubaitis, Petrusev, Cazalon, Hukporti (late second-undrafted)
 
I think this is pretty tough. :chuckle: Opinions on Wagner and Barnes are kind of linked at the hip a little, prospect wise, after seeing them play one another. Not in the sense that Barnes didn't play well but Wagner did. And if you believe that Barnes can be a good, potentially great defender at the NBA level, then Wagner certainly should get a draft boost or at worst, cement his profile as someone who can likely create at the NBA level.

Wagner was comfortable against FSU and able to get downhill when he wanted to.....all good signs that his offense should translate. If you think Wagner isn't great and he likely is just a shooter at the NBA level, then the success rate he had against Barnes, getting to spots would be somewhat concerning for Barnes defensive profile. Wagner wasn't out there getting stonewalled by him, unable to create space or momentum toward the rim......he was able to score a few times, as well as get to spots where he collapsed the defense and then passed. His tourney was tainted by the UCLA debacle but Wagner looked really comfortable against a very good defensive team (FSU) and player (Barnes) and I think that is certainly a feather in his cap if you want to try to envision what he can do at the NBA level.

Franz won't be 20 until the end of august. Guy is a baby for a college Soph. Seeing his game improve and evolve, as a somewhat unknown foreign college player has been fun. I think both guys are in the same tier. My preference would be Barnes because I think he has more physical potential, while possessing a lot of the same skills.......but to me, Barnes and Franz are certainly in that select group of players 4-9, who I think could really go in any order.

Fair rebuttal.

Both teams were in zones pretty much the entire game. FSU with their press zone full court on any deadball and matchup zone in the halfcourt which Johns killed and Dickinson ate on the inside and Michigan was in a 3-2 that dared FSU to shoot them out of all night. There were a few possessions where Barnes next tier showed, there were a few possessions where Wagner impacted the game offensively when Johns and Dickinson were contained. I didnt walk away from that game feeling like Wagner got the best of Barnes as they very rarely guarded each other in those schemes the same way I didnt feel either of the guards from Baylor leapfrogged Kispert despite both outplaying him in the championship game due to Baylor's scheme on both ends putting them in better positions to impact the game.

I came away from that FSU/SCUM game thinking to myself "Juwan Howard just took Leonard Hamilton's lunch with a little more talent and a better gameplan" the same way I felt Drew outcoached Few and kept his weapons from really getting off.

You would like to see a talent like Barnes be able to take over that kind of game, I dont believe FSU and Hamilton's coaching allow for that in the same way Bennett and UVA doesnt allow for that with individual talents. If he had played more man to man off his initial press, and put Barnes on Wagner or Howard had done that and had Wagner tail Barnes, maybe I'd have left that game feeling either had impacted the other's pro outlook.

I like Wagner though. I'd absolutely take him 14-20 if we had a pick there and got Mobley or Green or Suggs in the top 5. I dont think he's in that top tier though and I believe Barnes should be.
 
Cade has his issues but he’s a 19 year old kid with serious ball skills and scoring ability. And he’s got a cool, calm demeanor. Maybe too calm. I think his biggest development will have to take place between the ears with his mentality.

I’d feel very comfortable bringing him in and watching him develop. I think he’s absolutely the type of wing you can build an NBA team around.
I feel like I have read this before somewhere?
 
I believe Ben already told us a few weeks ago they are not going to draft Suggs esp if he measures in at 6'-3"..I think he's going to have a really nice career though.
 
I believe Ben already told us a few weeks ago they are not going to draft Suggs esp if he measures in at 6'-3"..I think he's going to have a really nice career though.
He measured 6'3 barefoot 4 years ago. Given his 6'5 listing, I would assume he's 6'3.5 or 6'3.75 barefoot right now.
 
He measured 6'3 barefoot 4 years ago. Given his 6'5 listing, I would assume he's 6'3.5 or 6'3.75 barefoot right now.
Yeah I saw him listed as 6'-4" on Tankathon but who knows if that's with or without shoes or maybe just an estimate.
 
I believe Ben already told us a few weeks ago they are not going to draft Suggs esp if he measures in at 6'-3"..I think he's going to have a really nice career though.
A huge mistake IMO, especially if we're sitting there at 4 and he's the top prospect available. If he's at 6'3.75 barefoot, that's 6'5.25 in shoes. Good height for a 2, and he's a guy that will be able to lockup both guard spots and be a great complement to either of Sexland (& especially Sexton).
 
Not to read too much into Ben's posts, but say we draft Giddey and move Garland to a 6th-man role. The starting lineup now looks like Sexton-Okoro-Giddey-X-Allen. We need a reliable PF who can guard a variety of big wings and forwards...in the fantasy world where we double-dip in this draft, I think Wagner or Garuba would fit really well there.
 

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