2021 NBA PLAYOFFS MEGA THREAD

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Rich

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Because players almost always end up going where they want to. If he opts in and says trade me there, what do they do?

Ugh..keep him and make him play? Or trade him somewhere that can offer something a little more valuable back.

Chris Paul just gonna go ahead and sit out a year at 36???

This also isn't the Rockets or the Pelicans here, who were looking to tear things down when their dudes wanted out. The Suns aren't gonna be bad next year and are super young.

They'll want dudes that can help them win going forward.


The other thing: He could have went to the Lakers last year by this same logic and chose not to when he asked the Thunder to trade him.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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There is no such thing as an easy path to a Championship.
Agreed. But there are some paths that are much easier than others. Why else did LeBron go to Miami in 2010, and ensure that he recruited Chris Bosh along the way? Why else did KD go to GSW? They did it because it made their path to a championship easier.

The rest of what you're saying is just semantics. Most people consider it a "superteam" when the best players of two (or more) different teams join up for the purpose of being on the same team to maximize their chances of winning a title. LBJ left Cleveland in 2010 to join up with the best player on the Heat, and the best player on Toronto. LBJ came back to Cleveland to join up with Kyrie (best player on Cavs), and pulled in Love (best player on Minnesota) along the way. KD going to GSW same thing. Then Kyrie, KD, and Harden all join up with the Nets.

Whatever label you choose to put on all that, most fans have a general understanding of the concept, and a pretty clear idea of what it means.
 
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RchfldCavRaised

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Y'all really have to stop with the Super Team stuff. There are no Super Teams in the league right now. Not a single one.

There are only 5 Superstar players. LeBron, Steph, KD, Kawhi, and now Giannis. That's it.

People always talk out of both sides of their mouths when talking about Super Teams and it's mostly because you have grudges towards certain players.

Nobody cares if you don't like a certain player or players personally but you can't have it both ways.

Cavs fans of all people really look silly crying about which players play where and what championships matter and which ones don't.

The Nets are not a Super Team. Kyrie and James Harden are not Superstars.

The Clippers are not a Super Team. Paul George is not a Superstar

The Lakers are not a super team. Anthony Davis is not a Superstar.

The Bucks are not a super team. Giannis is the only Superstar.

The Warriors are not a super team. Steph Curry is the only Superstar.

All of those teams have All Stars, MVPs, All NBAers, Champions, Finals MVP's, and max contracts out the ass.

None of them are Super Teams though.

A Super Team is a team with multiple Superstars.


None of those teams have multiple Superstars. The only two teams who can even come close to being considered Super Teams are the 2013 Miami Heat and the 2018 and 2019 Warriors.

When LeBron joined Miami, Wade was already a Finals MVP and a Superstar. LeBron did not have a title before going to Miami. They lost that first year in 2011. He was not cemented as a Superstar until he won that first title in 2012. That's what made the 2013 Heat team a Super team. They had two Superstars at that point and they still lost in 2014 to a team that was not a super team in the 2014 San Antonio Spurs. Tim Duncan was the only superstar on that team.

When KD joined the Warriors Steph Curry was already a superstar. KD was NOT. KD elevated to superstar status after they won in 2017. That made the 2018 and 2019 Warriors a super team. They had two superstarts at that point with KD and Steph.

None of these other teams are super teams and a lot of these players are not superstars. Stop throwing those titles around all willy nilly.

This was a terrible post Los. You're my boy and I root for your contrarian ways at times, but this is just wrong and a lazy attempt to straw man this thread.

This isnt something subjective, either.

The Cavs when LeBron returned were a superteam because Bron had Love force his way off Minny so they could team up. AD forced his way out of NOLA with the expressed intent of joining Bron in Laker land. Harden forcing his way to Brooklyn, KD quitting in OKC and Draymond waiting for him in the parking lot with his skirt hiked up in his best high heels, Kawai built a superteam in the Lakers basement by recruiting PG and others before the Raptors champagne had dried. I can point out superteams each year and what made them superteams if you need. I hate them and they very nearly ruined NBA basketball.

Superteams are not defined by how many superstars are on the team. That's not what Giannis was talking about last night.
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They are formed by players who are drafted or developed in organizations feeling entitled and forcing their way to another organization to join other stars who will make the championship run easier for them.
 

Steve_424

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Ugh..keep him and make him play? Or trade him somewhere that can offer something a little more valuable back.

Chris Paul just gonna go ahead and sit out a year at 36???

This also isn't the Rockets or the Pelicans here, who were looking to tear things down when their dudes wanted out. The Suns aren't gonna be bad next year and are super young.

They'll want dudes that can help them win going forward.


The other thing: He could have went to the Lakers last year by this same logic and chose not to when he asked the Thunder to trade him.

Here's my argument - if he wants to end up there, he'll end up there. I don't like it, you don't like it, but it's how this league works.

Now, does he want to go there? No idea. But I firmly believe he'll end up where he wants to be, wherever that may be.
 

kriegs

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Because having fire sets the tone for the team. It makes sure there is progress in a player and he will try to overcome his weaknesses.

The past two seasons giannis was neutralized by the "wall". This year, he figured it out without even having an outside shot threat. He did it by playing smart, driving when he can, posting when he can, cutting and passing out.

No, sexton won't grow his wingspan, but you have a player that most likely figures it out. That should be put into the equation.
Not every hard worker becomes an All-NBA player for various reasons.

I like Collin and think he continues to improve as a player.

Giannis should not be a comparison. These are two completely different players with different skill sets and ceilings.

You can't just want your way to being an NBA champion.
 

Out of the Rafters at the Q

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So signing with a team in free Agency is forcing your way there now?

So then tell me which teams where KD and Kyrie 'allowed' to player for that summer?

Y'all can't keep moving the goal post.

Kyrie is not a Superstar either. I've seen the same people talk shit about how he can't stay healthy complain that the Nets are taking an easy path to a title too. Well if Kyrie can't stay healthy how is it an easy path.

And The Nets got James Harden via trade. A very awful trade by HOU if I may add as well because they didn't get the 2nd or 3rd best players in that whole deal. I mean, look at how that team has been run. I'm not going to jump all over the players when some of these teams are horribly run franchises that make dumb ass decisions.
Politely, what the fuck are you talking about? Seriously--you're not even close to the discussion at hand.

The Heatles were a superteam.

The Nets are a superteam.

It's like you're trying to say that anything outside of the Dream Team isn't a superteam. That's not how this works. But hey, if that's your own personal definition, then cool. No superteams have ever existed in the NBA, so why are you even interjecting?
 
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Steve_424

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They are formed by players who are drafted or developed in organizations feeling entitled and forcing their way to another organization to join other stars who will make the championship run easier for them.

They are also formed when the organization who drafts the superstar can't build a winning team around him.

It's easy to crown Giannis the anti-superteam hero but also fair to wonder what he would do if the Bucks didn't build a great team around him. Dame has always been anti-movement, anti-super team. Now that he's 31 and sees the writing on the wall in Portland, that's starting to change.

LeBron wasn't going to win in Cleveland if he stayed the first time. Not because he felt entitled, but because the Cavs failed to build a winner around him. Same for AD in New Orleans. They were going nowhere. KD to Golden State is different to me, because I do think they had the pieces if he stayed.

If the Bucks hadn't discovered and developed Middleton into a star and went all in the get Holiday, and Giannis was instead looking at a roster tapped out of assets with Mo Williams as his #2, things may not be the same.
 

TheLand1287

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I would put Giannis there - not because he’s the best player (although he made a damn strong case last night) but because he hung in there and stuck with Milwaukee. He’s also a different kind of alpha dog - not vocal or demonstrative or flamboyant, he simply leads by example and others follow (I’m biased as that’s my leadership style).

I hope he becomes the face of the NBA. My wife & I were rooting for the Suns at the outset but Giannis just won us over. Massive respect for the man.

Same. Love his personality, leadership style, and how hard he's worked to get to this point. As a fellow Greek he's been my favorite player since LeBron left the Cavs but I did go into the finals preferring the Suns, slightly. CP3 and Book had been so much fun these playoffs, they took down both LA teams, and they've never won a title before. But by the time the games started I found myself wanting the Bucks. Their last title was 50 years ago which may as well have been never. Love Giannis, and really just can't stand Jae Crowder. As many others have said though both teams are very likeable and easy to root for, and it sucks someone had to lose.
 

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The same way every single one of use cherishes June 19th 2016 yet LeBron, Kyrie, and now Kevin Love are the most hated athletes on this entire board. More than Big Ben and John Elway.

I can't speak for everyone but I will always like and appreciate every member of that 2016 team. They gave me the best week of sports fandom I've ever experienced and I am forever grateful for it.
 

RchfldCavRaised

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They are also formed when the organization who drafts the superstar can't build a winning team around him.

It's easy to crown Giannis the anti-superteam hero but also fair to wonder what he would do if the Bucks didn't build a great team around him. Dame has always been anti-movement, anti-super team. Now that he's 31 and sees the writing on the wall in Portland, that's starting to change.

LeBron wasn't going to win in Cleveland if he stayed the first time. Not because he felt entitled, but because the Cavs failed to build a winner around him. Same for AD in New Orleans. They were going nowhere. KD to Golden State is different to me, because I do think they had the pieces if he stayed.

If the Bucks hadn't discovered and developed Middleton into a star and went all in the get Holiday, and Giannis was instead looking at a roster tapped out of assets with Mo Williams as his #2, things may not be the same.

Championships are HARD, they're supposed to be. That's why we hold the few who are able to get them in the esteem we hold them in. When franchise level players in their prime take routes to make it easier to win them, it's cheap and flies against everything for me.

Not the same as when guys go ring chasing after not being able to get them while in their prime. If Karl Malone or Payton had won one with the Lakers in 14, I wouldnt have felt bad as they had sacrificed and worked hard with their orgs and simply had not been able to get over the Jordan hump.

Barkley taking less to try to win one in Houston with Dream and Glide in his twilight, was not a superteam

Garnett, Allen and Pierce were not a superteam. What Bron did to counter them, was.

Rumors have it that he attempted to lure Bosh here instead of Miami. If he had, that wouldnt have been a superteam... and so on.

You're not entitled to a championship because you're talented. And I agree with you that championships are won at the organizational and management level.

Doesnt excuse or justify superteams
 

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Re-read my full comment:


I think any championship is earned and that no matter the circumstances it is hard to win one. We should know that as well as anyone. I was just saying if you're going to dismiss the Lakers in 2020 for factors out of their control, you can't just ignore what happened this year.

It's pretty clear you don't like LeBron, which is fine of course. But we all have to try to take a step back from bias and evaluate these things for what they are. Ex: I absolutely HATE Durant, but have no problem with he and Kyrie teaming up as free agents with the Nets.

It's not that I dislike LeBron. I think he's polarizing. I've enjoyed watching him throughout his career, love that he came back and won the city a title, that he's a devoted family man, and has done a lot of positives in the community. However, I don't like him for how he left the first time around, I don't like that his return was a big PR stunt and everything he said was basically bullshit, I don't like his leadership style, and I don't like that his MO is to jump from team to team - holding the GM and Owners head to the fire and drain that team of every asset until the well has run dry and then bounce to the next destination that has everything he needs. Unlike some people I don't have to gargle his testicles and believe he's 100% above reproach just because he's LeBron James. There are things I like and don't like about him.

Giannis is everything us Cavs fans (not LeBron fans, Cavs fans) wanted LeBron to be. The Cavs organization didn't do a great job of putting talent around him the first time around, no question about it. He also refused to recruit the first time around. He also quit in the Boston series. LeBron's first stop here is water under the bridge. But he came back, said a bunch of things that made him seem genuine, and he had it made and he still left, again.

LeBron said he left to go to Miami and team up with DWade to "learn how to become a champion". Well, Giannis figured that shit out all on his own without having to go team up with other All NBA players like LeBron, KD, and AD had to do. He did it without getting coaches fired and threatening GMs/Owners. He worked his ass off and led by example. The narrative on Giannis can always change, he's still only 26, but for now he comes across as a humble, genuine, easy to root for alpha that is basically the perfect superstar you'd want to have on your team as an NBA fan in a league with soooo many soft ass cry babies that want to take the easiest route possible to becoming a champion.
 
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Steve_424

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Championships are HARD, they're supposed to be. That's why we hold the few who are able to get them in the esteem we hold them in. When franchise level players in their prime take routes to make it easier to win them, it's cheap and flies against everything for me.

Not the same as when guys go ring chasing after not being able to get them while in their prime. If Karl Malone or Payton had won one with the Lakers in 14, I wouldnt have felt bad as they had sacrificed and worked hard with their orgs and simply had not been able to get over the Jordan hump.

Barkley taking less to try to win one in Houston with Dream and Glide in his twilight, was not a superteam

Garnett, Allen and Pierce were not a superteam. What Bron did to counter them, was.

Rumors have it that he attempted to lure Bosh here instead of Miami. If he had, that wouldnt have been a superteam... and so on.

You're not entitled to a championship because you're talented. And I agree with you that championships are won at the organizational and management level.

Doesnt excuse or justify superteams

Franchise players only do that when their teams have failed to build a championship contender around them. Did I hate LeBron leaving? Absolutely. Would it have made sense for him personally to stick around and spend his prime years with an aging roster void of young talent with no assets to get better? Not at all.

The way he left was bullshit. It's a black mark on his career that will always be there. But looking back with my wine and gold glasses removed, he made the right decision for his career. If prime LeBron had players the caliber of Khris Kiddleton and Jrue Holiday on his team, maybe history looks a bit different. Maybe not...we just don't know. If Giannis is looking down the bench and seeing Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison as his "help", does he stay? Maybe he does, I don't know. Does MJ stay with the Bulls if they don't draft and develop Pippen?

The easy thing to do is knock the players who left and praise the one's that stayed. I just don't think it's that simple though.
 

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