2021 NBA PLAYOFFS MEGA THREAD

[Ohio]

It's worth noting each decision turned out well for him and two of the three times involved trusting Dan Gilbert if he were to stay longer.

Eh, did it?

In 3 seasons with the Lakers, he's missed the playoffs, won the bubble title (which he probably wins with any team he's ever played on since 2007), and got bounced in the 1st round.

 

[Rich]

It's worth noting each decision turned out well for him and two of the three times involved trusting Dan Gilbert if he were to stay longer.

Ok Steve.

You simply want everyone to see LeBron's team switching in the same light you do and we just don't, dude. We're not gonna. It cheapens the titles he's won.

And saying "well he made the right call because he won" is the exact reason WHY it's cheap in our eyes. Simply winning titles at any cost doesn't make it the right decision and doesn't make those titles equal to others.

 

[Steve_424]

Eh, did it?

In 3 seasons with the Lakers, he's missed the playoffs, won the bubble title (which he probably wins with any team he's ever played on since 2007), and got bounced in the 1st round.

Each decision led him to at least one ring. I guess it depends on alternatives.

I don't think he would've won a title with the Cavs had he stayed after 2010. I know someone brought up Dallas, but I don't see how they would've gotten out of the East with KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo in Boston and Wade/Bosh/a different third star in Miami.

I think leaving here after 2018 was the right move for him, but I do concede maybe other places would've offered more sustainability as opposed to LA.

The one I do question, even though it worked out for us, was leaving Miami. The tough part of that situation was you would've had to move on from Wade or Bosh and Wade made the most sense from a basketball perspective.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Each decision led him to at least one ring. I guess it depends on alternatives.

I don't think he would've won a title with the Cavs had he stayed after 2010. I know someone brought up Dallas, but I don't see how they would've gotten out of the East with KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo in Boston and Wade/Bosh/a different third star in Miami.

I think leaving here after 2018 was the right move for him, but I do concede maybe other places would've offered more sustainability as opposed to LA.

The one I do question, even though it worked out for us, was leaving Miami. The tough part of that situation was you would've had to move on from Wade or Bosh and Wade made the most sense from a basketball perspective.

Fuck the Heatles decision.

Breaking the NBA and winning via collusion sucks. It sucked when LeBron did it. It sucked when Durant did it.

Championships are so much better when they're won via competition.

 

[Los216]

No, Milwaukee is not a super team. They’re a great team that has one of the top 3-5 players in the world in Giannis. Middleton has made two all star games and he was a second rounder drafted and developed by the Bucks. Holiday and Lopez were acquired via trade but they’re both one time all stars, coming way back in 2012-13 for both. They’re a team with ONE superstar, a two time all star reserve, and two other really good starters who made on all star games as reserves almost a decade ago.

If you don’t see how that’s different from KD, Kyrie, Harden, Aldridge, Blake Griff teaming up then I don’t know what the fuck else to tell you.

What did Kyrie and James Harden do in the playoffs this year? Did they contribute more than Middleton and Holliday? No they did not.

So again I'm saying we have to stop putting premature labels on players and teams.

Like, I agree that Harden and Kyrie are better players than Holliday and Middleton. No argument there but Jrue Holliday is probably the best two way player in the game right now and he's durable. Khris Middleton is one of the most consistent players in the game right now and he's also durable.

Durability is a factor into team success. One team can't be a Super team without their star players playing.

So for this season Brooklyn was not a Super team. We saw why when Milwaukee beat them. They didn't have their horses so you can't do what if's. If Kelly O doesn't pull Kevin Love's shoulder out of his socket we might not even see a Warriors dynasty.

Don't label these teams on expectations. Label them and judge them based on what they do and how their players perform.

Did James Harden play through injury like Giannis and elevate his game? No. Did Anthony Davis play through injury like Giannis and elevate his game. No. See. Injuries happen and they factor into team success.

You can't call Brooklyn a Super team. What about them makes them a Super team? They have one Superstar and they haven't even been in The Finals since 2003. Just because they had high expectations does not mean they get to carry that label around. They fell short. They aren't a Super team. They're a team with multiple All Stars and if you look around the league there's a lot of those teams out there man. They're not all Super teams though. That's facts.

 

[Steve_424]

Ok Steve.

You simply want everyone to see LeBron's team switching in the same light you do and we just don't, dude. We're not gonna. It cheapens the titles he's won.

And saying "well he made the right call because he won" is the exact reason WHY it's cheap in our eyes. Simply winning titles at any cost doesn't make it the right decision and doesn't make those titles equal to others.

I'm really not. You're welcome to view his moves however you please and I respect that. I've never told anyone else what to think that I'm aware of.

What I'm trying to do is view it as what I would've done if I were LeBron James.

Would I have stuck around in 2010 with Mo, Antawn, and no assets? Not a chance.

Would I have stuck around in 2018 with Kevin Love, Tristan Thomspon, and Collin Sexton? No, I wouldn't have.

Both of those times I wanted him to stay aith my team, but that's different from the way I'm viewing it. I remove my fandom and look at each decision as "What is the best thing for me (as LeBron) at this time?"

 

[Los216]

Agreed. But there are some paths that are much easier than others. Why else did LeBron go to Miami in 2010, and ensure that he recruited Chris Bosh along the way? Why else did KD go to GSW? They did it because it made their path to a championship easier.

The rest of what you're saying is just semantics. Most people consider it a "superteam" when the best players of two (or more) different teams join up for the purpose of being on the same team to maximize their chances of winning a title. LBJ left Cleveland in 2010 to join up with the best player on the Heat, and the best player on Toronto. LBJ came back to Cleveland to join up with Kyrie (best player on Cavs), and pulled in Love (best player on Minnesota) along the way. KD going to GSW same thing. Then Kyrie, KD, and Harden all join up with the Nets.

Whatever label you choose to put on all that, most fans have a general understanding of the concept, and a pretty clear idea of what it means.

I know.

The issue I have is people always bend the argument in their favor. Especially when they are talking about players they don't like. Guys like LeBron, Kyrie, KD, James Harden, Chris Paul.

If we're being honest, most of the stuff we're talking about applies to all of these players but people like to cherry pick and paint pictures that either tear down players they don't like or big up the ones that they do.

Like how people tear down KD but don't have anything to say about the Thunder trading James Harden. Milwaukee went all in and got Jrue Holliday and would you look at that, it paid off. Does KD leave OKC if they keep that Big 3 together? We don't know but some of the decision makers on these teams are just as if not more responsible than the players with how these teams are being formed.

 

[TheLand1287]

What did Kyrie and James Harden do in the playoffs this year? Did they contribute more than Middleton and Holliday? No they did not.

So again I'm saying we have to stop putting premature labels on players and teams.

Like, I agree that Harden and Kyrie are better players than Holliday and Middleton. No argument there but Jrue Holliday is probably the best two way player in the game right now and he's durable. Khris Middleton is one of the most consistent players in the game right now and he's also durable.

Durability is a factor into team success. One team can't be a Super team without their star players playing.

So for this season Brooklyn was not a Super team. We saw why when Milwaukee beat them. They didn't have their horses so you can't do what if's. If Kelly O doesn't pull Kevin Love's shoulder out of his socket we might not even see a Warriors dynasty.

Don't label these teams on expectations. Label them and judge them based on what they do and how their players perform.

Did James Harden play through injury like Giannis and elevate his game? No. Did Anthony Davis play through injury like Giannis and elevate his game. No. See. Injuries happen and they factor into team success.

You can't call Brooklyn a Super team. What about them makes them a Super team? They have one Superstar and they haven't even been in The Finals since 2003. Just because they had high expectations does not mean they get to carry that label around. they fell short. they aren't a Super team. They're a team with multiple All Stars and if you look around the league there's a lot of those teams out there man. They're not all Super teams though. That's facts.

I’m not reading this shit

 

[Man Called X]

Isn't that the definition of a message board? People post things?

I'd point out the irony of you ignoring the content of the post you're quoting to attack the person, but I feel it may be a bit on the nose.


Looks like someone didn't finish reading my post before they typed up their response. Can you please finish reading next time so we can save ourselves from this? Let me bold it for you.

"Do you maybe mean that you didn't intend for it to be offensive? Offensive and personal aren't synonymous."


Literally nobody is accusing you of this. Again, please read the posts you're responding to.


Is calling someone a name making a personal statement? Yes.

Am I going to be offended by it? No.

Will you learn the difference between those two terms? We'll see.

Sssh, you're interrupting the shitposting.

 

[Ohio]

I'm really not. You're welcome to view his moves however you please and I respect that. I've never told anyone else what to think that I'm aware of.

What I'm trying to do is view it as what I would've done if I were LeBron James.

Would I have stuck around in 2010 with Mo, Antawn, and no assets? Not a chance.

Would I have stuck around in 2018 with Kevin Love, Tristan Thomspon, and Collin Sexton? No, I wouldn't have.

Both of those times I wanted him to stay aith my team, but that's different from the way I'm viewing it. I remove my fandom and look at each decision as "What is the best thing for me (as LeBron) at this time?"

People were saying the same thing about Giannis & Milwaukee before he signed his extension. And guess what? They were wrong.

LeBron absolutely did not make the right decision in 2018, at least not from a basketball perspective. Staying here would have been better. Going to Philly would have been significantly better. Hell, just about anywhere would have been better than the Lakers, who truly are still a dumpster fire of an organization. The only reason they are currently relevant is because they are located in LA and LeBron wanted to live there. Plus he used his agent to bring in AD. Put the Lakers back in Minneapolis and LeBron never goes there and they'd still be in the mediocrity treadmill. Hell, with LeBron's decline seemingly starting and AD rarely able to stay healthy, they may not be far from the mediocrity treadmill as it is. The Lakers can't even manage to surround LeBron with competent role players.

 

[Cavatt]

 

[Los216]

They are formed by players who are drafted or developed in organizations feeling entitled and forcing their way to another organization to join other stars who will make the championship run easier for them.

If this is your definition of a Super team then the decision makers in these front offices are more responsible for then than the players are.

We don't have to pretend like all of these GM's and owners are actually prioritizing winning. They aren't. As soon as these owners start getting cheap fans lineup to start firing off on players who finally get an opportunity to control what they want to do with their careers.

And let's also not pretend like all of these teams are just dominant. Miami won 2 out of 4 and were a Ray Allen 3 away from being 1 for 4 during LeBron's run. If not for Love's injury GSW would have at best 2 Chips. Brooklyn has not even made The Finals and Kyrie and KD have been there 2 years. The Clippers have not made The Finals in 2 seasons with Kawhi and Paul George. And apparently The Lakers Pandemic title was a fluke according to most people here and aside from that they have only made The Finals in 1 of LeBron's 3 seasons there.

So I judge Super teas on two things. The caliber of players on the team and the success of that team.

Personally I don not believe that there are more than 5 Superstar players in the league. LeBron, Steph, KD, Kawhi, Giannis. That's just my personal opinion.

And if we are judging these Super teams based off of their success then they are at best 50% successful and most of them have underperformed if we're being honest.

How many of these Super teams have actually lived up and delivered? Maybe GSW but they were 3 for 5 and haven't been to the playoffs since their last one. That's not Super to me but that's just me.

 

[Los216]

Politely, what the fuck are you talking about? Seriously--you're not even close to the discussion at hand.

The Heatles were a superteam.

The Nets are a superteam.

It's like you're trying to say that anything outside of the Dream Team isn't a superteam. That's not how this works. But hey, if that's your own personal definition, then cool. No superteams have ever existed in the NBA, so why are you even interjecting?

No I just think people are overrating some of these players.

 

[Steve_424]

People were saying the same thing about Giannis & Milwaukee before he signed his extension. And guess what? They were wrong.

LeBron absolutely did not make the right decision in 2018, at least not from a basketball perspective. Staying here would have been better. Going to Philly would have been significantly better. Hell, just about anywhere would have been better than the Lakers, who truly are still a dumpster fire of an organization. The only reason they are currently relevant is because they are located in LA and LeBron wanted to live there. Plus he used his agent to bring in AD. Put the Lakers back in Minneapolis and LeBron never goes there and they'd still be in the mediocrity treadmill. Hell, with LeBron's decline seemingly starting and AD rarely able to stay healthy, they may not be far from the mediocrity treadmill as it is. The Lakers can't even manage to surround LeBron with competent role players.

I guess it depends in what we require to say it was the right decision. I agree 100% there were better choices in 2018 than LA (although I don't agree here was one of them)..but he did get another ring there. If he doesn't win another was it a bad move? I guess that all depends on how each of us views it.

 

[Rich]

I'm really not. You're welcome to view his moves however you please and I respect that. I've never told anyone else what to think that I'm aware of.

What I'm trying to do is view it as what I would've done if I were LeBron James.

Would I have stuck around in 2010 with Mo, Antawn, and no assets? Not a chance.

Would I have stuck around in 2018 with Kevin Love, Tristan Thomspon, and Collin Sexton? No, I wouldn't have.

Both of those times I wanted him to stay aith my team, but that's different from the way I'm viewing it. I remove my fandom and look at each decision as "What is the best thing for me (as LeBron) at this time?"

There's no convincing you of anything.

On the one hand, this discussion started out as why Giannis is different. He stayed even though his team was failing. Ownership hadn't went into the luxury tax once.

You argued against that instead of just letting it be.

So here, presented with all the times LeBron left good teams with good players, you make excuses for why it was OK then.

Maybe it was OK. But it goes right back to the first post that started this.

Giannis is simply different.