2021 NBA PLAYOFFS MEGA THREAD

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MediumBaller

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No I just think people are overrating some of these players.
You said that 2012 LeBron, 2017 KD, and James Harden aren’t superstars, but you said 2013 Dwyane Wade, who averaged 15.9 ppg in the 2013 playoffs on 49.8% TS, was a superstar. Who’s overrating who?
 

Los216

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Otis Thorpe/Vernon Maxwell is the only one that comes to mind with the 93-94 Rockets that was worse than Middleton. I like Middleton, good player, but he is more of a 3rd best on a championship team.

I welcome those to bring others, and my knowledge really only goes back to around 1980.

Is Middleton worse than the 2nd best players on the 2011 Mavs or 2019 Raptors?

What about the 2015 Warriors? This was before Draymond was DPOTY and Klay Thompson was about the same level player at that time that Jrue Holliday is now. He was an elite shooter and two way player but look at Middleton's numbers during this playoff run. He averaged 24 PPG in these Finals and he was the most clutch player in the whole series.

You might be selling Middleton a little short. He's not better right now then Pascal Siakim was in 2019? Or better than 2011 Tyson Chandler, Jason Terry, Shawn Marion, or Jason Kidd? I think Middleton right now might be better than all of those guys were on those Championship teams.
 
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Steve_424

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There's no convincing you of anything.

On the one hand, this discussion started out as why Giannis is different. He stayed even though his team was failing. Ownership hadn't went into the luxury tax once.

You argued against that instead of just letting it be.

So here, presented with all the times LeBron left good teams with good players, you make excuses for why it was OK then.

Maybe it was OK. But it goes right back to the first post that started this.

Giannis is simply different.

Am I misunderstanding the point of this forum?

I've never said anything negative about Giannis. He is different, I like him a lot, and I'm happy for him. I'm simply not going to ignore that his situation is very different than what happened with others before him.
 

Los216

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Eh, did it?

In 3 seasons with the Lakers, he's missed the playoffs, won the bubble title (which he probably wins with any team he's ever played on since 2007), and got bounced in the 1st round.

It's definitely up for debate on if LeBron's tenure in LA has been successful. He might end up 1 for 4 again like he was here only The Championship here was way more significant then the one in LA. That's not up for debate.
 

PIP

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Also worth noting that regardless of what talent was with the Cavs when LeBron left there’s a stronger chance that the talent would have been different if he had committed…

There’s this weird notion that LeBron holding the Cavs feet to the fire made them more prone to do roster tweaking to stay competitive as if they really wanted to waste his career by not doing anything… Who really is to say if he had committed there would have been even better rosters placed around him in the long run ?
 

Los216

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You said that 2012 LeBron, 2017 KD, and James Harden aren’t superstars, but you said 2013 Dwyane Wade, who averaged 15.9 ppg in the 2013 playoffs on 49.8% TS, was a superstar. Who’s overrating who?

Wade was a Superstar prior to those Finals is what I was saying. he already had a Finals MVP, multiple time All Star and was a top 3 player in the league between 2008-2010 behind Kobe and LeBron. He was already certified where as LeBron and KD were not until they got over that hump. Wade was already over that hump even though his game was starting to decline.
 

Ohio

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I guess it depends in what we require to say it was the right decision. I agree 100% there were better choices in 2018 than LA (although I don't agree here was one of them)..but he did get another ring there. If he doesn't win another was it a bad move? I guess that all depends on how each of us views it.
That's certainly an opinion.

Year 1 - No way in hell LeBron misses the playoffs with the Cavs. And hell, he may have been able to drag us pretty far like he did in 2018. The Raptors might not even swing for Kawhi if LeBron is still here.
Year 2 - LeBron still wins the bubble title, easily
Year 3 - LeBron wins at least 1 series, if not all of them

I think Sexton would do really well in the Kyrie role...and Kevin Love wouldn't have quit playing basketball if LeBron stayed.
 

Los216

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Also worth noting that regardless of what talent was with the Cavs when LeBron left there’s a stronger chance that the talent would have been different if he had committed…

There’s this weird notion that LeBron holding the Cavs feet to the fire made them more prone to do roster tweaking to stay competitive as if they really wanted to waste his career by not doing anything… Who really is to say if he had committed there would have been even better rosters placed around him in the long run ?

This is a nuanced argument that only a few people truly understand. It's probably the ultimate what if in Cavs history. What if he committed.
 

Ohio

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It's definitely up for debate on if LeBron's tenure in LA has been successful. He might end up 1 for 4 again like he was here only The Championship here was way more significant then the one in LA. That's not up for debate.
Personally, I don't even think it's debatable that he'd have had more success here than he's had in LA.
 

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I don’t think it’s any question LeBron’s reign in Cleveland will be better than LA..

Fact is he’s been there 3 seasons.

-Didn’t qualify for the playoffs
-Won a very questionable title
-Got bounced in round 1

Unless they significantly improve their roster and he fires off a 3 peat then there’s zero chance…

Denver will be such a threat. And I truly believe a healthy Warriors team will be a problem as constructed..And if they make a trade for a veteran they will be my favorites to come out of the west…
 

Steve_424

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That's certainly an opinion.

Year 1 - No way in hell LeBron misses the playoffs with the Cavs. And hell, he may have been able to drag us pretty far like he did in 2018. The Raptors might not even swing for Kawhi if LeBron is still here.
Year 2 - LeBron still wins the bubble title, easily
Year 3 - LeBron wins at least 1 series, if not all of them

I think Sexton would do really well in the Kyrie role...and Kevin Love wouldn't have quit playing basketball if LeBron stayed.

I disagree because while I think LeBron is still one of the best players in the league I don't believe at this point in his career that he can put a team on his back and will it to wins in tough playoff series'. LeBron in 2018 was almost superhuman in the postseason and yet the Pacers and Celtics both took them to 7 and they got swept away by GS. Adding a rookie year Sexton to that mix wasn't going to be close to enough.

He left because while he can still play at an elite level, he needs a younger star to carry a lot of the load now. He averaged 41.9 MPG in his final postseason here - 36.3 during the Lakers title run. They won because Anthony Davis was brilliant that postseason.

His error in judgment though maybe tying himself to a younger star with serious durability issues. Without a healthy AD, the Lakers are pretty average.
 

RchfldCavRaised

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I'm partially responsible for this getting off-track today with my jokey jokes.

I deleted a few personal/instigative posts, and whispered to the corners of a few boxers to keep it clean.

This has been a pretty good debate today, let's keep it that way

giphy.gif
 

Steve_424

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I don’t think it’s any question LeBron’s reign in Cleveland will be better than LA..

Fact is he’s been there 3 seasons.

-Didn’t qualify for the playoffs
-Won a very questionable title
-Got bounced in round 1

Unless they significantly improve their roster and he fires off a 3 peat then there’s zero chance…

Denver will be such a threat. And I truly believe a healthy Warriors team will be a problem as constructed..And if they make a trade for a veteran they will be my favorites to come out of the west…

I don't think anyone will argue his reign in LA will be better than it was here. I'll honestly be surprised if he wins another title. I do think it was a better destination in the summer of 2018 than here, though I think there were better fits elsewhere.
 
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About LeBron …

I really, truly don’t care anymore. He’s no longer the force he was in the NBA - either as a players or as an influencer. Adam Silver specifically mentioned his objections to the play-in tourney but said they’d do it anyway. His “humble” act is tired. He’s losing popularity because many of his complaints are transparently self-serving.

He brought us a great Championship and has done wonderful philanthropic work. He’s a good man worthy of respect but I’m done with his act and the NBA is moving on from him.

And I really am done with the “what-ifs” about the past. I’m interested in our team now and in the future. We’ve got a great draft pick, a decision has to be made on Allen, there are other roster moves to be done - that’s what’s important now IMHO.

I am very happy Milwaukee and Giannis won this and not the annoying thirty-somethings in Brooklyn and Los Angeles. Great season.
 

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