NFL Off-Season Thread

[Jack Brickman]

I don’t understand. If I were a GM or Owner, I wouldn’t trade a top 5 QB for anything but another top 5 QB.
1st round picks have a 53% success rate and looking over the last 15 years on 1st round QBs in the first is abysmal.

If he's a top five QB, how exactly is he overrated?

 

[JDailey23]

If he's a top five QB, how exactly is he overrated?

I didn’t say overrated, maybe it was last week or something, but he is Overrated in the sense that he can’t elevate his teammates to win.
I mean, he had his best season yet, after trading one of the best in the league. Could be coaching....which they fixed or are attempting too.
I still don’t see anyway Houston trades, too much of a cap hit and not enough in return.

Then the Loyalty tweet...ha

 

[AZ_]

I didn’t say overrated, maybe it was last week or something, but he is Overrated in the sense that he can’t elevate his teammates to win.

1.

He is overrated.

2. Your premise that great quarterbacks along can make bad teams good (coded as "doesn't elevate") is where the massive hole in your argument is exists. That's just not how winning in the NFL works.



As a fan of a franchise all too familiar with the work of failsons taking ownership responsibilities from their father, the Texans are just a pretty garbage organization that needs to completely blow it up.

Watson doesn't want to be around for that, and I can't blame him.

I hope he winds up on a team that isn't run by one of the Righteous Gemstones.

 

[JDailey23]

1.



2. Your premise that great quarterbacks along can make bad teams good (coded as "doesn't elevate") is where the massive hole in your argument is exists. That's just not how winning in the NFL works.



As a fan of a franchise all too familiar with the work of failsons taking ownership responsibilities from their father, the Texans are just a pretty garbage organization that needs to completely blow it up.

Watson doesn't want to be around for that, and I can't blame him.

I hope he winds up on a team that isn't run by one of the Righteous Gemstones.

Sure a QB can. Watson is just a good QB that gets the label as being “great”.
Look how Mahomes changed KC.
Look how Brady changed Tampa.
Look at Herbert and the Chargers.
Watson is a stat machine and sells jerseys.
If Houston trades Watson, they will be completely irrelevant. They’d have nothing to draw people in. Watson is their one guy people go to see and hea contractually obligated there.
Some owners don’t care about winning, Cincy Bengals for example. They were content with Palmer or Dalton and made a good chunk of change with them.
No one is the draft will be the draw that Watson is.

 

[AZ_]

Sure a QB can. Watson is just a good QB that gets the label as being “great”.
Look how Mahomes changed KC.
Look how Brady changed Tampa.
Look at Herbert and the Chargers.
Watson is a stat machine and sells jerseys.
If Houston trades Watson, they will be completely irrelevant. They’d have nothing to draw people in. Watson is their one guy people go to see and hea contractually obligated there.
Some owners don’t care about winning, Cincy Bengals for example. They were content with Palmer or Dalton and made a good chunk of change with them.
No one is the draft will be the draw that Watson is.

You seem to be intentionally misstating my argument, which...I guess I should have expected.

But yes, I'll take a closer look at Justin Herbert and the 7-9 record...

I said QBs can't make bad teams good, not that good QBs can't "change" teams. There is no QB who makes the Houston Texans good, why? Because they're really bad in every other facet of the game.

But good luck arguing that he's a stat machine who sells jerseys, while also arguing that no amount of picks is worth trading him for.

NFL teams largely sell out every game, so I guess now you're deputizing attendance into the argument too?



All in all, an A+ for trolling effort for an argument that you seem to be taking both sides of.

 

[JDailey23]

You seem to be intentionally misstating my argument, which...I guess I should have expected.

I said QBs can't make bad teams good, not that good QBs can't "change" teams. There is no QB who makes the Houston Texans good, why? Because they're really bad in every other facet of the game.

But good luck arguing that he's a stat machine who sells jerseys that no amount of picks is worth trading him for.

NFL teams largely sell out every game, so I guess now you're deputizing attendance into the argument too?



All in all, an A+ for trolling effort for an argument that you seem to be taking both sides of.

I was mainly point out his “loyalty” tweet. Which you ignored.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Look how Mahomes changed KC.

The Chiefs were a playoff team without Mahomes. Yeah, he's a a massive upgrade over Alex Smith, but it's not like he went to the Browns and turned them into a Super Bowl winner overnight. He took a contending team and put them over the top. He's also got, you know, actual talent around him, unlike Watson. Mahomes has the best TE in football and one of the best ever, one of the fastest receivers in the NFL, and a solid defense. Just imagine if they had drafted Jonathan Taylor or JK Dobbins instead of CEH.

I'd also note that Mahomes may be a Super Bowl MVP, but he didn't earn it. That was Damien Williams' stolen trophy. Williams was the best player in that game and no one will ever convince me otherwise.

And I'm not saying there's a direct correlation, but Damien Williams sat out this year and the Chiefs won fuck all.

As far as Brady goes, he went to a team that was absurdly stacked with talent whose main problem was their QB threw thirty fucking picks the year prior. Not hard to imagine how bringing in literally the best QB of all time and pairing him with the league's best WR group and a good offensive line worked out, not to mention a waived Leonard Fournette, who proved he still had some juice in the playoffs. Tampa also had a top shelf defense that was able to contain Mahomes, the guy everyone calls the best QB in football (he is, which speaks more to how good Tampa's defense was).

 

[macbdog]

I get the Jets and Dolphins, both are giving a chance to minority coaches, and the Saints seem like an easy situation for a vet to step in and produce, but the Raiders? He must like Gruden more than the average fan.

 

[JDailey23]

Point is. Texans are not trading Watson. Over $21 million reasons. Hawks are not trading Wilson, $39 million reasons why.
Happy, unhappy, they chose to resign. Sorry. Nothing in return will replace the money or the player.

 

[AZ_]

I was mainly point out his “loyalty” tweet. Which you ignored.

I posted his loyalty tweet.

Which you called “stupid and ignorant,” for some reason.

Personally, I find loyalty to be neither stupid nor ignorant.

I ignored that name calling because you did it to inflame.

Should also add that Houston already is irrelevant, they’ve ruined their team to the point that they’ve allowed a grifter with no football experience to run football operations, alienated the entire locker room to the point that the two greatest players in franchise history both asked to get away from them.


Watching you go out of your way to disparage one of those players, absent much reason or logic, and littered with what looks to be petty animus towards certain athletes, has been pretty weird.


Watson is likely going to sit out until that trade can be facilitated, and no reason that you’ve fabricated thus far seems to make much sense in making me think otherwise. Certainly not his reasonably team friendly contract that any number of teams would like to have.

 

[JDailey23]

I get the Jets and Dolphins, both are giving a chance to minority coaches, and the Saints seem like an easy situation for a vet to step in and produce, but the Raiders? He must like Gruden more than the average fan.

It’s probably the city in which they play more than the coach.
I don’t get the feeling Wilson is “all in” or fits the “Just win baby” mantra.

 

[col63onel]

The Raiders did have and insane year.

They beat the Browns, Saints and Chiefs, and also had loses to the Chiefs, Bucs, Colts and Bills. Those teams combined to go 11-6...in the playoffs. They also lost to the Phins on a really stupid penalty/blown coverage.

Problem is, they lost to the Chargers, Patriots, Falcons, and needed a miracle to beat the Jets. I can see Watson wanting to play there.

I also here theres a thriving entertainment industry in their home city.

 

[Triplethreat]

You seem to be intentionally misstating my argument, which...I guess I should have expected.

But yes, I'll take a closer look at Justin Herbert and the 7-9 record...

I said QBs can't make bad teams good, not that good QBs can't "change" teams. There is no QB who makes the Houston Texans good, why? Because they're really bad in every other facet of the game.

But good luck arguing that he's a stat machine who sells jerseys, while also arguing that no amount of picks is worth trading him for.

NFL teams largely sell out every game, so I guess now you're deputizing attendance into the argument too?



All in all, an A+ for trolling effort for an argument that you seem to be taking both sides of.

The loss of simply Peyton Manning took the Colts from 14-2 to 2-14.

 

[AZ_]

The loss of simply Peyton Manning took the Colts from 14-2 to 2-14.

That's nice. He's pretty great.

Not even remotely close to the point I was making, but nice nonetheless.

The point is Deshaun Watson is a great QB regardless of his teams record. Because his team sucks, QBs don't magically change that.


If your argument is that going from Peyton Manning to Curtis Painter is bad, then yes, I agree with you.

But again, that isn't the point.

 

[Lee]

That's nice. He's pretty great.

Not even remotely close to the point I was making, but nice nonetheless.

The point is Deshaun Watson is a great QB regardless of his teams record. Because his team sucks, QBs don't magically change that.


If your argument is that going from Peyton Manning to Curtis Painter is bad, then yes, I agree with you.

But again, that isn't the point.

Be careful what you say about my fellow Boiler, Curtis Painter is the third best QB of all time right behind Brees and Bob Griese. Honorable mention for Gary Danielson, Len Dawson, Jim Everett and Kyle Orton.